Official : Bendis gets both books

[LordUltimus]

My problem with Rogol is that he's super generic. Replace him with Mongul or any other bulky alien warrior and you wouldn't have to change one line of dialogue from him.

[Miles To Go]

Superman#8 by Rob Liefeld

[Vordan]

People who like memorable characters and powerhouses that are retooled and reused time and again vs people who someone who will likely never appear beyond the work of his creator?

“Memorable” thanks for the laugh mate. Henshaw is dull as dirt. Doomsday has 1 story he’s known for and that’s it. They’re both boring as hell. Don’t act like you’ve got good taste if you’re out here stanning for Jurgens boring as hell 90s creations. When people complain about how Supes Rogues Gallery sucks it’s because of guys like Jurgens who only know how to create “Superman but EVIL” or “Has Kryptonite Powers”. Rogal is boring but Red Cloud and the Invisible Mafia are better than anything Jurgens did during his run. Jurgens also writes one of the worst Zods I’ve ever seen.

Edit: I can't believe that last line. Are we pretending Jurgens isn't the only reason Henshaw keeps showing up? Who the heck other than Jurgens insists on bringing Hank Henshaw back? No one. Johns used him for his SCW event but other than that no one cares about Henshaw. Jurgens is the worst when it comes to forcing his pet characters into everything he writes. See him dragging Henshaw with him over to GLs, ruining the decent ending Jurgens himself gave him.

And the worst part of it all is that there are some Jurgens creations I actually like! Conduit is a super cool character who just needs a revamp to be relevant, but he's a perfect "Hush" villain for Clark! Heck he was Hush before Hush even existed. The Godslayers were really cool too! Blanque is also really interesting, but Jurgens doesn't give any focus to those guys, instead it always comes back to mindless punching with Doomsday and Henshaw.

[Vordan]

You know, I just had the thought: what if Bendis is planing on making Amanda Waller sort of Clark's Nick Fury? Not in the mentor sense, obviously, but rather Clark has a dubious government spy to interact with and lead to more story.

Because, I mean, Waller isn't a good person by any stretch of the imagination, but her deal is that she'll walk through the sh!t if it means the greatest good. I wanna get to the Amanda Waller that we had in the last season of JLU. The one who was both good enough to make sure the world always had a Batman, but messed up enough to clone him and nearly order the deaths of two good people.

Superman having to interact with someone like that would be interesting. Clark wading through moral gray that isn't his own could be fascinating especially when Action Comics is a down to Earth detective books in a lot of ways.

At the very least it'd be a nice change of pace from him wagging his finger at Batman lol

______

Clark telling Waller may also somehow play into the possible shift in dynamic with how the public see the Kents (the Superman is Jon's father theory). Like, their hand is forced and Waller sets it up via compiling all the gossip and rumors as some sort of out for the Kents rather than them going full public?

I've been hoping for Waller to take charge of DC's variety of spy organizations for a long time. Let's figure out what the relationship between SHADE, ARGUS, the Suicide Squad, and all the other organizations is. I'd love to see Waller take on a role similar to her DCAU counterpart where she was kind of the "head" of these groups. But the relationship between Clark and Waller needs to be very different than Peter and Fury. Clark isn't looking for a father figure and Waller and Clark have way too many differences to ever have a smooth working relationship imo.

[Sacred Knight]

God I hope none of that happens. I can't stand Waller and her presence in Leviathan alone hurts my intrigue just a bit. It'd be beyond irritating to have to deal with her as a regular player in Superman's world. Besides everyone knows what else it would lead to: A lot of guest appearances from the Suicide Squad and right now I'm just as tired of them.

Well thought out theories don't get me wrong, I'm not blasting any of you by any stretch of the imagination, I just...ugh hate Waller, lol.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

“Memorable” thanks for the laugh mate. Henshaw is dull as dirt. Doomsday has 1 story he’s known for and that’s it. They’re both boring as hell. Don’t act like you’ve got good taste if you’re out here stanning for Jurgens boring as hell 90s creations. When people complain about how Supes Rogues Gallery sucks it’s because of guys like Jurgens who only know how to create “Superman but EVIL” or “Has Kryptonite Powers”. Rogal is boring but Red Cloud and the Invisible Mafia are better than anything Jurgens did during his run. Jurgens also writes one of the worst Zods I’ve ever seen.

Edit: I can't believe that last line. Are we pretending Jurgens isn't the only reason Henshaw keeps showing up? Who the heck other than Jurgens insists on bringing Hank Henshaw back? No one. Johns used him for his SCW event but other than that no one cares about Henshaw. Jurgens is the worst when it comes to forcing his pet characters into everything he writes. See him dragging Henshaw with him over to GLs, ruining the decent ending Jurgens himself gave him.

Calm down and get over yourself dude. And let’s not pretend the invisible mafia is much more than intergang 2.0. Or that there’s anything remotely interesting about Red Cloud, she’s just a crappy version of livewire from TAS right down to the fake news gimmick. Frankly I like Henshaw, he’s got a cool origin, though admittedly the evil Reed Richards aspect of him is more interesting than the evil Superman side. Plus Johns also made good use of him with the whole suicidal thing he had for a while.
And Doomsday is just a killing machine, nothing wrong with that just like there’s nothing wrong with using zombies as villains. Why someone would have strong feelings either way about him makes no sense to me.
Anyway if Zarr really did destroy Krypton then his existence hurts the mythos. Krypton’s destruction should always be due to a natural disaster. It being destroyed by someone seeking vengeance and you lose what makes that part of Superman’s backstory compelling.

[Vordan]

Calm down and get over yourself dude. And let’s not pretend the invisible mafia is much more than intergang 2.0. Or that there’s anything remotely interesting about Red Cloud, she’s just a crappy version of livewire from TAS right down to the fake news gimmick. Frankly I like Henshaw, he’s got a cool origin, though admittedly the evil Reed Richards aspect of him is more interesting than the evil Superman side. Plus Johns also made good use of him with the whole suicidal thing he had for a while.
And Doomsday is just a killing machine, nothing wrong with that just like there’s nothing wrong with using zombies as villains. Why someone would have strong feelings either way about him makes no sense to me.
Anyway if Zarr really did destroy Krypton then his existence hurts the mythos. Krypton’s destruction should always be due to a natural disaster. It being destroyed by someone seeking vengeance and you lose what makes that part of Superman’s backstory compelling.

Hey man if you want to live in the 90s because your nostalgia doesn't allow anything else don't let me stop you. But don't try to act like you somehow posses better taste than me or that the characters you like are somehow "deeper" or "better" when people have been pointing out their flaws for years. Doomsday sucks. Henshaw sucks. They have one story to them each and have never managed to do anything interesting since. Intergang has done absolutely nothing of note for decades. At least the Invisible Mafia have an interesting gimmick to them with the code names and the secrecy. Livewire SHOULD be one of Supes top rogues but no one has done ANYTHING with her disc jockey background.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Hey man if you want to live in the 90s because your nostalgia doesn't allow anything else don't let me stop you. But don't try to act like you somehow posses better taste than me or that the characters you like are somehow "deeper" or "better" when people have been pointing out their flaws for years. Doomsday sucks. Henshaw sucks. They have one story to them each and have never managed to do anything interesting since. Intergang has done absolutely nothing of note for decades. At least the Invisible Mafia have an interesting gimmick to them with the code names and the secrecy. Livewire SHOULD be one of Supes top rogues but no one has done ANYTHING with her disc jockey background.

You’re the one who started acting like your tastes are superior to everyone else’s. All I said was that Doomsday and Henshaw are better than Zarr (lol as if that’s actually controversial) and you got all triggered.

[Vordan]

You’re the one who started acting like your tastes are superior to everyone else’s. All I said was that Doomsday and Henshaw are better than Zarr (lol as if that’s actually controversial) and you got all triggered.

Uh no I didn't. All I said was that I'd rather take Rogal over Henshaw and Doomsday and then you and Miles both got triggered over that. I never even said Rogal was a good character, I explicitly said that:

And that right there is the difference between those who dislike the Bendis runs and those who don’t. I’m sorry but Doomsday and Henshaw are painfully dull to me, as uninteresting as Rogal is to you. I’ll admit Rogal has done nothing to make me love him, but I am kind of curious what his deal is and he’s not just a mindless brute or yet another evil Superman clone.

Where on Earth does that imply I think I'm better than anyone? I merely am enjoying this run because my dislike of doomsday and Henshaw is stronger than my dislike of Rogal whereas it's the reverse for you guys demanding Bendis be taken off the books. Miles meanwhile says this:

People who like memorable characters and powerhouses that are retooled and reused time and again vs people who someone who will likely never appear beyond the work of his creator?

Which implies that those who like Doomsday and Henshaw somehow have better taste (which is utterly hilarious), because Jurgens somehow "doesn't" bring his creations along with him wherever he goes?

Oh and for the record: Henshaw and Doomsday are literally cut from the same cloth as Rogal. Random nobodies who came out of nowhere and kicked Superman's butt. Henshaw humiliated Mogul like Rogal humiliated Zod. It's utter hypocrisy to try to act like Henshaw and Doomsday are somehow "better" than Rogal when Jurgens used the same methods as Bendis to establish them.

Edit: And for the last time I don't even LIKE Rogal. I just want to see his back story before I make my final judgement. Right now I've said Bendis hasn't won me over on him, and I wasn't too pleased with Bendis' last Superman issue either.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Hey man if you want to live in the 90s because your nostalgia doesn't allow anything else don't let me stop you.

Uh huh, nothing condescending about this at all. And where did you get the absurd idea that I thought my tastes were superior? Because I told you to calm down after you overreacted to that comment Miles made?

[Sacred Knight]

I don't have a dog in this race, I'm fine with ALL these characters. That said, Henshaw isn't cut fro the same cloth as Rogol. He didn't come out of nowhere as a major villain. He started out as a normal guy, became a meta via an independent story, then disappeared into the far off reaches of space. Very much a cliffhanger for the possibility of seeing him show up again, well before the Reign. Years later he indeed did return. I'm not saying the plan all along was to turn him into what he eventually turned into. But he was a character who received an origin story and who left with the suggestion of the possibility of a return in a meaningful capacity. Very different from Zaar or Doomsday who just showed up as immediate threats.

[Vordan]

I don't have a dog in this race, I'm fine with ALL these characters. That said, Henshaw isn't cut fro the same cloth as Rogol. He didn't come out of nowhere as a major villain. He started out as a normal guy, became a meta via an independent story, then disappeared into the far off reaches of space. Very much a cliffhanger for the possibility of seeing him show up again, well before the Reign. Years later he indeed did return. I'm not saying the plan all along was to turn him into what he eventually turned into. But he was a character who received an origin story and who left with the suggestion of the possibility of a return in a meaningful capacity. Very different from Zaar or Doomsday who just showed up as immediate threats.

I wasn't claiming they were the exact same, but the process wherein one villain is made to look weak so that the new guy looks strong, in Jurgens case Henshaw, in Bendis case Rogal, that's pretty much the exact same. And Jurgens did it again in Rebirth with Henshaw and Mongul. I wasn't happy about Mongul being made to look that weak. If he constantly loses to Henshaw who constantly loses to Superman, how are we ever supposed to take Mongul as a serious threat again?

[Kuwagaton]

Hey man if you want to live in the 90s because your nostalgia doesn't allow anything else don't let me stop you. But don't try to act like you somehow posses better taste than me or that the characters you like are somehow "deeper" or "better" when people have been pointing out their flaws for years. Doomsday sucks. Henshaw sucks. They have one story to them each and have never managed to do anything interesting since. Intergang has done absolutely nothing of note for decades. At least the Invisible Mafia have an interesting gimmick to them with the code names and the secrecy. Livewire SHOULD be one of Supes top rogues but no one has done ANYTHING with her disc jockey background.

*shrug*

The invisible mafia comes from a self professed Jurgens fan. Within six months of regular titles we've had Jor-el, the Guardian, Intergang, and even obscure references to things like Perry having cancer. To boot, the particular creations of Hank, Eradicator, and Doomsday have had dozens of extensions across tv, toys, games, spinoffs, other franchises, and movies. Henshaw right now is on tv and Doomsday has been in two films within the last three years. As far as stories go, keep in mind that the new 52 reboot had 3 Doomsday stories in the first three years. I get not being a fan but these things are so prominent that it must be obvious that those viewpoints can't be so common.

Bendis is pretty well received now as a student of the whole game. The Kon he's writing now hasn't had that specific appearance on twenty years, but lo and behold. I'm personally excited that he'll probably recruit a friend for Legion, but he'll represent their actual history when he uses them.

[Vordan]

*shrug*

The invisible mafia comes from a self professed Jurgens fan. Within six months of regular titles we've had Jor-el, the Guardian, Intergang, and even obscure references to things like Perry having cancer. To boot, the particular creations of Hank, Eradicator, and Doomsday have had dozens of extensions across tv, toys, games, spinoffs, other franchises, and movies. Henshaw right now is on tv and Doomsday has been in two films within the last three years. As far as stories go, keep in mind that the new 52 reboot had 3 Doomsday stories in the first three years. I get not being a fan but these things are so prominent that it must be obvious that those viewpoints can't be so common.

Bendis is pretty well received now as a student of the whole game. The Kon he's writing now hasn't had that specific appearance on twenty years, but lo and behold. I'm personally excited that he'll probably recruit a friend for Legion, but he'll represent their actual history when he uses them.

Fair enough but I should also point out that people didn't exactly love Doomsday's appearance in BvS. Heck people actually cited that as a mark against the film, that Doomsday looked terrible and Supes death felt hollow and meaningless. I certainly wasn't a fan. Also there was quite a lot of complaining when Death of Superman was announced because of how Superman: Doomsday had already told that story, and I was initially only interested in Reign of the Supermen with Tomasi's excellent script coming as a welcome surprise.

And as for the New 52, Morrison if anything used Superdoomsday to take shots at the fact that DC/WB is utterly obsessed with this one story, hence the "You're at your most interesting when you die!" to which Supes retorts that he has other plans. I stopped reading Supes after Morrison left so I really don't have a high opinion of the rest of the New 52. That they relied so heavily on Doomsday does nothing to raise my low opinion of the character, or of the post-Morrison New 52 treatment of Superman.

[seismic-2]

Intergang has done absolutely nothing of note for decades.

Intergang tried to kill Lois (who had written an expose' book about them) when Clark, Lois, and Jon "White" were living in California, resulting in their moving across the country to Hamilton and becoming the "Kents". So they are still a threat, or at least they were before Superman Reborn.