Official : Bendis gets both books

[Superlad93]

OK that's more understandable now, it's just one of Bendis' jokes. That makes more sense in context and I remember the scene in question. Thanks for clarifying Superlad.

No worries.

I am just not a fan of pace at which the character is changed,here.

Don't worry, I hear ya, and make no mistake, I'm not saying you have to feel any one way or the other about anything. All I was pointing out was that his "selling point"--in the conceptual sense-- was just being Superman and Lois' for real son and DC backing that. But the personal selling point that was created later was what resonated with you.

I can appreciate your feelings on the jarring nature of shift, but I also think that it's a fair tool for a writer play with when dealing with a pre-teen going into full on puberty. It's an especially apt tool when you're actually only dealing with the character as being adjacent to the titular character, Superman in this case. As I stated in my longer post about the imaginary story child of Superman, Bendis is deliberately putting us in Superman's shoes because he's made it clear that the character was growing quite accustom to and would've liked to keep his largely normal family with his largely normal son who didn't seem to have any needs more special than when he was growing up, and we the readers were right there with him. So, Jor-El throwing a wrench in the works and Jon coming back as not what his dad expected is making use of Clark as our main character and upscaling the already transformitive time of puberty with Superman's scale.

It's sound conceptually, and it doesn't break the selling point (him being Superman's son), but it does deliberately challenge the conventions that you and I as readers have grown comfortable with.

That would feel like a whiplash for readers

Funny enough, can't you easily imagine that's how Clark will feel? Can't you more accurately find yourself in his head because of this? Isn't that what writers strive to do with characters (especially the main character)? And isn't that a common criticism quite a few have cited when it comes to Superman? And for whatever it's worth, it seems to be confirmed that we'll be getting details and flashbacks of his journey. It's not the gradual shift, but it's something, and you can, again, imagine the torrent of emotion Clark will have.

People love to say they love change,But many don't.Me in particular,am sceptic of changes.

Again, it's fascinating that this is the reaction that you and other are having because it's uncovering and putting in words a very real truth about Clark: he gets comfortable with how things are set, and he'll hold onto that set pattern for as long as possible. Just look at the struggle it was for him to tell Lois. He made up dozens of excuses for why she couldn't know, but under scrutiny they fall flat. It was an emotional journey for him. So, it's not hard to imagine that when he's basically received his "happy ending" he doesn't want it to budge an inch, and we're the same because it was such a popular time in Superman comics. So this makes it a fascinating obstetrical that he can't out punch or even out think. Tomorrow is a foe that openly welcomes yet secretly dreads, and now we're right there with him.

[manwhohaseverything]

Funny enough, can't you easily imagine that's how Clark will feel? Can't you more accurately find yourself in his head because of this? Isn't that what writers strive to do with characters (especially the main character)? And isn't that a common criticism quite a few have cited when it comes to Superman? And for whatever it's worth, it seems to be confirmed that we'll be getting details and flashbacks of his journey. It's not the gradual shift, but it's something, and you can, again, imagine the torrent of emotion Clark will have.

yah!ofcourse,I can imagine what clarks will feel .But i don't know, if it would make him(clark) more relatable than before.If that is what bendis is going for,I just don't think the risk is worth the reward(with fans). It feels like you loose Jon by trying to make Clark relatable this way for some section of readers.Maybe, It's because, i never had trouble with relating to clark.So I could never understand that criticism.I can connect to clark(any version) as a character more than someone like Bruce.
I just feel like Jon might be turned into angst driven teen,or moody god.As much as,i love those type of characters,i just don't want Jon to turn into one and that too,this fast.

[Superlad93]

yah!ofcourse,I can imagine what clarks will feel .But i don't know, if it would make him(clark) more relatable than before.

Well, you admitting that you're resonating with what Clark is feeling is also already showing Bendis has his Clark resonating with people in some way. He needs you to get where his main character is coming from for his story. He can't really speak to where Superman's relatablity was at before this or where it'll be after, because those are different writers.

Maybe, It's because, i never had trouble with relating to clark.So I could never understand that criticism.I can connect to clark(any version) as a character more than someone like Bruce.

I'm the same way, but unfortunately not all fans are like us, and there are incoming fans who only know Superman's personality via reputation, Bendis has to account for them as well as us, and sometimes one side has to compromise a bit to reach the other, you know?

I just feel like Jon might be turned into angst driven teen,or moody god

I don't wanna make assumptions that direct without any evidence to back up my thoughts. I find doing that just leads to unneeded worry on my part before I've seen seen a page of story. So, right now all we know is that Jon's gonna come back changed physically and with some sort of new outlook. We don't know what form either of those aspects of his character will take.

[Konja7]

I don't wanna make assumptions that direct without any evidence to back up my thoughts. I find doing that just leads to unneeded worry on my part before I've seen seen a page of story. So, right now all we know is that Jon's gonna come back changed physically and with some sort of new outlook. We don't know what form either of those aspects of his character will take.

We know Jon will change phisically?

I mean I know there has been some "hints" that this could happen, but I don't remember a confirmation.

Or I miss something?

[Superlad93]

We know Jon will change phisically?

I mean I know there has been some "hints" that this could happen, but I don't remember a confirmation.

Or I miss something?

Well yeah, in AC 1004 Lois flat out says to Clark "it was like he hit puberty as soon as we left orbit." No matter what the degree ends up being (be it that pic Bendis posted on DC's IG or not), that's confirmation of a very noticeable physical change on Jon.

Like I said before, we don't know specifically what this will look like, but we do know it's a thing that's happened.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, you admitting that you're resonating with what Clark is feeling is also already showing Bendis has his Clark resonating with people in some way. He needs you to get where his main character is coming from for his story. He can't really speak to where Superman's relatablity was at before this or where it'll be after, because those are different writers.



I'm the same way, but unfortunately not all fans are like us, and there are incoming fans who only know Superman's personality via reputation, Bendis has to account for them as well as us, and sometimes one side has to compromise a bit to reach the other, you know?



I don't wanna make assumptions that direct without any evidence to back up my thoughts. I find doing that just leads to unneeded worry on my part before I've seen seen a page of story. So, right now all we know is that Jon's gonna come back changed physically and with some sort of new outlook. We don't know what form either of those aspects of his character will take.

I just feel this move just comprises Jon as likable character for a section of fans for clark's sake(making him relatable for some new readers) . I know Jon is a supporting character, but changing Richard for Bruce's sake will also be questionable for me at least. And would not go over well with his fans. Something like this happened in truth arc with Lois. It is risky and might not pay off. If it does not, Jon as character, which I feel is expendable at this point will be gone.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

If Jon’s age bump results in phasing out his dynamic with Damian, then I expect a lot of long term problems for his character as the Damian team ups are probably the best thing he has going for him.

[manwhohaseverything]

If Jon’s age bump results in phasing out his dynamic with Damian, then I expect a lot of long term problems for his character as the Damian team ups are probably the best thing he has going for him.

This.
Jon needs to be established as mainstay both inside and outside the comic before any sort of changes to the character.So that if it fails the character can survive on it's own like Lois, Jimmy, conner or perry.
In story as well,he needs to develop more relations and dynamics with characters from larger dcu and Clark's supporting cast to be less expandable and well rounded character.As it stands now Jon's character is only connected to only superman side of dcu which can be easily restructered without the rest of dc being affected like in reborn.

[Superlad93]

I just feel this move just comprises Jon as likable character for a section of fans for clark's sake(making him relatable for some new readers) .

Well, to be perfectly fair and frank, "likable" is subjective, and since we don't actually know the nature of any of Jon's changes, you can't with any certainty say if he'll be likable or not afterwards.

I know Jon is a supporting character, but changing Richard for Bruce's sake will also be questionable for me at least. And would not go over well with his fans.

Not a fair comparison. Dick is hardly in Bruce's books ever. He's no more a supporting character to Bruce than Wally is to Barry. Unlike Dick, the lion's share of Jon's time and development is seen in either Superman, Action Comics, or Superman: Lois & Clark. Those are the books where all of the big jumps in Jon's life has occurred. But, in Dick's case, the lion's share of his development was in either Teen Titans, Nightwing, or the Batman and Robin book when he was the lead.

If it does not, Jon as character, which I feel is expandable at this point will be gone.

That's fine to feel that way, and I can't and won't try to browbeat you that the opposite is true, but I will say that there are no facts to support this being the case at this stage.

[Superlad93]

If Jon’s age bump results in phasing out his dynamic with Damian, then I expect a lot of long term problems for his character as the Damian team ups are probably the best thing he has going for him.

Interesting. You don't want to consider the possibility of their dynamic persisting on ever with the changes to him, and that being a source of both comedy and tension? Jon already being tall for his age, and taller than Damian (a 13 year old) being a sore spot for the former is only compounded after Jon actually hits puberty. That sounds funny to me, and I want to see them meet up after.

Couple that with Damian's new outlook on heroics with the Teen Titans, and they've got a lot to catch up on.

[Konja7]

This.
Jon needs to be established as mainstay both inside and outside the comic before any sort of changes to the character.So that if it fails the character can survive on it's own like Lois, Jimmy, conner or perry.
In story as well,he needs to develop more relations and dynamics with characters from larger dcu and Clark's supporting cast to be less expandable and well rounded character.As it stands now Jon's character is only connected to only superman side of dcu which can be easily restructered without the rest of dc being affected like in reborn.

Well, we still don't know what changes will happen for Jon. I just hope the changes are good and help the populariy of the character.

Damian is 13, while Jon is around that age, I think DC can mantain their interactions.


PS: It seems Superman Reborn still affected some external things, because New 52 Kon-el and his adventures never existed.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, to be perfectly fair and frank, "likable" is subjective, and since we don't actually know the nature of any of Jon's changes, you can't with any certainty say if he'll be likable or not afterwards.

Just like relatable is also subjective term.

Not a fair comparison. Dick is hardly in Bruce's books ever. He's no more a supporting character to Bruce than Wally is to Barry. Unlike Dick, the lion's share of Jon's time and development is seen in either Superman, Action Comics, or Superman: Lois & Clark. Those are the books where all of the big jumps in Jon's life has occurred. But, in Dick's case, the lion's share of his development was in either Teen Titans, Nightwing, or the Batman and Robin book when he was the lead.

Some of Jon's development happened in supersons as well where he is the co-lead.and because of this book, that I feel that Jon could make out on his own as a character. Maybe join the titans, star in other team ups or start his own solo if the market is kind enough. See if this goes wrong super sons will be buried. Jon as character will not be allowed time to breath or become his own character like nightwing, conner or even damian. If fans loose interest in the character because of this change, at this stage of development of Jon as mainstay super character. He will be turned to dust.But it does not effect Clark's popularity whether Jon is aged up or not.

[Konja7]

Some of Jon's development happened in supersons as well where he is the co-lead.and because of this book, that I feel that Jon could make out on his own as a character. Maybe join the titans, star in other team ups or start his own solo if the market is kind enough. See if this goes wrong super sons will be buried. Jon as character will not be allowed time to breath or become his own character like nightwing, conner or even damian. If fan lose interest in the character because of this change, at this stage of development of Jon as mainstay super character. He will be turned to dust.But it does not effect Clark's popularity whether Jon is aged up or not.

I'm also worried about the changes of Jon and the reception of these changes. However, I hope these changes are interesting and the character has a good reception.

I don't think Jon will grow a lot. I think Jon will be 13 (Damian's age) at most. Conner is returning, so I don't think DC wants two males16/17 years old in the Superman family.

[manwhohaseverything]

I'm also worried about the changes of Jon and the reception of these changes. However, I hope these changes are interesting and the character has a good reception.

I don't think Jon will grow a lot. I think Jon will be 13 (Damian's age) at most. Conner is returning, so I don't think DC wants two males16/17 years old in the Superman family.

It is not just the age,I am worried about the whole character,his relationships and dynamics with his peers.I am worried that the changes will be too jarring for Jon fans. they will loose interest and no new fans will be made for the all new all different Jon. And a character with staying capacity and potential will be wasted. Like the tshirt and jeans new52 superman was.

[Konja7]

It is not just the age,I am worried about the whole character,his relationships and dynamics with his peers.I am worried that the changes will be too jarring for Jon fans. they will loose interest and no new fans will be made for the all new all different Jon. And a character with staying capacity and potential will be wasted. Like the tshirt and jeans new52 superman was.

I am worried about that too, because he's one of my favorite characters.

However, at this point, what will happen to Jon is inevitable, so I just hope the changes are positive for the popularity of the character.