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  1. #3991
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    What I'm having trouble understand from any of your post to me on this subject is how you're so sure of the changes to Jon's personality removing him competently from who he was before. You haven't read the issues yet (neither have I), and the solicits are vague, but you're still saying it has no point of relation to who he was before personality wise. That doesn't make any sense. Based just off the facts we know (an amount of time has passed for everyone in the story, and a character has undergone a large physical change and has had aspects added to their character) it has quite a lot in common with a shounen time skip in terms of functionality. I mean, you saying that the end goals of all the shounen characters remain the same, and that's why Jon isn't like them, but, again, you don't know what he's going to be like, so how can you say that without the shadow of a doubt. You even say "i'll judge the book when it comes out" yet here you are perjudging it as we speak because you're assuming Jon's personality won't at all resemble his old one and thus will not have any similarities to most shounen. But, the fact of the matter is, you don't know that at all.
    I am not sure,i am basing my judgement from the marketing,solicitation..etc.It feels like a reboot.It might not be,when i read the book.Then i will change my mind.But until then,from the info that i have,this is like a new Jon to me.

  2. #3992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    What I'm having trouble understanding from any of your post to me on this subject is how you're so sure of the changes to Jon's personality will be removing him competently from who he was before. You haven't read the issues yet (neither have I), and the solicits are vague, but you're still saying it has no point of relation to who he was before personality wise. That doesn't make any sense. Based just off the facts we know (an amount of time has passed for everyone in the story, and a character has undergone a large physical change and has had aspects added to their character) it has quite a lot in common with a shounen time skip in terms of functionality. I mean, you saying that the end goals of all the shounen characters remain the same, and that's why Jon isn't like them, but, again, you don't know what he's going to be like, so how can you say that without the shadow of a doubt. You even say "i'll judge the book when it comes out" yet here you are perjudging it as we speak because you're assuming Jon's personality won't at all resemble his old one and thus will not have any similarities to most shounen. But, the fact of the matter is, you don't know that at all.

    This is still a time skip, dude. It says that months to a year have passed for everyone. It doesn't get clearer than that. Just because Jon is the only one who went through a big physical change doesn't make it any less of a time skip.

    I don't really understand your stance by this point. Marketing/covers vs the actual story are two wildly different things, so I don't understand your point or your argument against my observations.
    I can’t speak for him but I can speak for me. Because the marketing has let me down before. Because way too often writers make promises they don’t keep and their track record with anything tied to Lois Lane in this regard is not good. Because trust is earned and my trust has not been earned yet.

    Because DC has a notorious history of taking characters who are even slightly innocent and then destroying them or making them angry and they’ve done this in particular to Lois and Clark’s child more than once now.

    It’s easy to say “well read the story this is just the solicit” and that might be true if we didn’t have a notorious history of DC screwing with both the marriage, with young characters and, in particular, with Lois and Clark’s children. They have not earned my trust. It’s as simple as that.

  3. #3993
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    My problem with aging Jon from a narrative standpoint is that with said aging, they lose a narrative perspective. There are few stories with a teen Jon that Conner couldn't fill, etc. So I definitely prefer this as a temporary thing. We've had "kid Damien" for a lot longer than we've had "kid Jon," and it'd be a shame to lose it so soon.
    I think that assumes them to be interchangeable as characters, and I think assuming that is a disservice to both characters. Like, you'd have a fight on your hands if you said Dick and Jason could fill in for the same stories because they're both 20 something former Robins. Or that Tim, Duke, and Damian were interchangeable because they were all teen and male. So, I don't think it makes sense to say the same for Jon and Conner. But make no mistake, this is the hard part. If Jon had stayed smaller it would've functionally simpler for anyone coming on to write them. I'm not foolish or blind. I see that. But this is also the point where personalities have to be refined to a deadly shard point lest the character be lost to the archetype (Jon's forgivable but very real issue before this).

    Bendis has said that he's gonna build to the two characters meeting, and I think that's in part because he needs to attack that elephant in the room when he gets things set up. But, again, I lament over the loss of kid Jon so soon same as everyone else, but I'm welcoming to this new writing challenge to his character, and I'm open for it to win me over.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  4. #3994
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I am not sure,i am basing my judgement from the marketing,solicitation..etc.It feels like a reboot.It might not be,when i read the book.Then i will change my mind.But until then,from the info that i have,this is like a new Jon to me.
    It's not a reboot. There's no where that it says anything like that. If you're speaking figuratively, then to an extent yeah, because each and every new direction in comics is a sort of "reboot." But in terms of continuity, no it's all still continuing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    It’s easy to say “well read the story this is just the solicit” and that might be true if we didn’t have a notorious history of DC screwing with both the marriage, with young characters and, in particular, with Lois and Clark’s children. They have not earned my trust. It’s as simple as that.
    That's fine. You're entitled to not read, like, trust, or support anything including comics that you have a bad history with. I've never argued against that with anyone. I'm not even telling you to read on in hopes that something catches your interest or earns your trust. I'd like everyone to have a good time with the things they like, but that's not always the case and I've known that, and continue to know it. I'll never argue or debate that anyone should like anything. That makes no sense to me, so I don't do it. But if you read back my debate with manwhohaseverything is rooted in the idea that I made an observation based only on what we knew for a fact, and they disagreed but based their (forgive me, I don't want to assume their gender based just off their name) disagreement off of largely speculation alone.

    Again, all are welcome to not like a thing--anything in fact, but when a thing says that time has passed and a character off-screen is coming back physically changed/aged at all from said time passing (and the time will be filled in later), then it's a time skip. That having a funny parallel to manga was my only actual point to them--not even them, but more so a funny observation for the thread given Tomasi, Gleason, and Jimenez's tendency to make intentional or unintentional parallels between Jon and anime/manga characters.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 11-20-2018 at 02:37 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  5. #3995
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It's not a reboot. There's no where that it says anything like that. If you're speaking figuratively, then to an extent yeah, because each and every new direction in comics is a sort of "reboot." But in terms of continuity, no it's all still continuing.
    Yeah!I was being figurative,there.We are both making assumptions here.You think Jon would be like old Jon or have some personality traits of him.I just simply,don't.I could be wrong,as well as you.

    Anyway,Jon had started attending school with Damian.What about his relation with Kathy?(If she is sticking around).His new base,underwater..etc
    If all of these stories that Jon has been in continuity is not touched upon.If the character is taken to whole different direction by dropping all this,without acknoweldging any of it.I will just call a spade, a spade.It will be a new version of Jon(reboot).
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-20-2018 at 02:53 PM.

  6. #3996
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I think that assumes them to be interchangeable as characters, and I think assuming that is a disservice to both characters. Like, you'd have a fight on your hands if you said Dick and Jason could fill in for the same stories because they're both 20 something former Robins. Or that Tim, Duke, and Damian were interchangeable because they were all teen and male. So, I don't think it makes sense to say the same for Jon and Conner. But make no mistake, this is the hard part. If Jon had stayed smaller it would've functionally simpler for anyone coming on to write them. I'm not foolish or blind. I see that. But this is also the point where personalities have to be refined to a deadly shard point lest the character be lost to the archetype (Jon's forgivable but very real issue before this).

    Bendis has said that he's gonna build to the two characters meeting, and I think that's in part because he needs to attack that elephant in the room when he gets things set up. But, again, I lament over the loss of kid Jon so soon same as everyone else, but I'm welcoming to this new writing challenge to his character, and I'm open for it to win me over.
    That's kinda what I'm saying but kinda not what I'm trying to say, so I'll attempt to explain better:

    Conner has a good number of story paths and narrative perspectives available to him as a character, and so does Jon. They aren't the same character, true, but many of the narrative perspectives an aged up Jon could have are also things that Conner could have (even if not exactly the same; Superman as a surrogate father vs a biological father, etc). Not all certainly, but quite a few. However, a whole host of narrative perspectives are lost completely when there is no longer a younger Jon. Conner cannot fill those in any capacity. That's my overall point. A lot more is lost than is gained, imo. That's why I'd like to see this end up being temporary. You can get those stories in, and then set it back, leaving a LOT open in both directions. I love growth as much as the next person, but there's something to be said for "putting the toys back in the box" sometimes.

    To me, Superman loses a lot in this loss of perspective, too, because the reader got to see Superman "through a kid's eyes," so-to-speak (a role that Jimmy used to fill, a loooong time ago). a younger Jon gives that much more of a reason for Superman to be a reflection of the real-world ideal he is, and plays into that without it looking too sanctimonious because he has a narrative reason for being so (and, imo, one that the more cynical among potential readers can actually wrap their heads around, so they can set their bias down and get into the character). It also gives a narrative context to Superman's potential "hopeful wonder" appeal to a younger demographic as well as those who are older who see themselves in Superman's shoes (or even both at the same time). None of those are things Conner could fill, hence what I said - or rather, what I meant by what I said. lol

    All of that doesn't mean I'm not open to it winning me over, eventually.. just that my past experience with DC in general tells me this could very easily be a big mistake, and it'll take a pretty solid landing for this to shake that feeling with me.
    Last edited by JAK; 11-20-2018 at 03:04 PM.
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  7. #3997
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Again, all are welcome to not like a thing--anything in fact, but when a thing says that time has passed and a character off-screen is coming back physically changed/aged at all from said time passing (and the time will be filled in later), then it's a time skip. That having a funny parallel to manga was my only actual point to them--not even them, but more so a funny observation for the thread given Tomasi, Gleason, and Jimenez's tendency to make intentional or unintentional parallels between Jon and anime/manga characters.
    I think Tomasi ,Gleason..etc made intentional parallel(it was quite obvious),but i don't think Bendis is going for that or the asthetic(assumption) right now.I don't think he reads manga,anyway.
    In shonen,during the timeskip physical changes to character usually happen at human pace(or slower).So,if time skip is of 6 months all the characters except immortals in that universe only age 6 months.Here,Jon is aged 6 or 7 years(from the cover) in 6 month time skip as you say,while everyone else grew 6 months older.That is not how,I understand shonen time skips tend to be.That does not happen in shonens,To avoid disconnecting audience from main characters.All characters usally age the same during shonen timeskip.As I said, earlier even then the character largley remains the same with some developements(shonen trope).
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-20-2018 at 03:19 PM.

  8. #3998
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    We are both making assumptions here.You think Jon would be like old Jon or have some personality traits of him.
    No I don't. I haven't made any assumptions on his personality at all yet. The closest I've come is saying that at the very least, Jon seems to retain some reverence for his father given that the solicit says that he comes to him for help. Outside of that one comment, I haven't assumed anything about Jon's personality and presented it as anything close to fact.

    Anyway,Jon had started attending school with Damian.What about his relation with Kathy?(If she is sticking around).His new base,underwater..etc
    If all of these stories that Jon has been in continuity is not touched upon.If the character is taken to whole different direction by dropping all this,without acknoweldging any of it.I will just call a spade, a spade.It will be a new version of Jon(reboot).
    That doesn't mean they didn't happen or are no longer in continuity. Bendis has Jon bring up both Damian and going to school in two issues of his run so far, and there is nothing to indicate he's not talking about Damian Wayne and going to the prep school from before. Now, if Bendis decides that he doesn't need to use locations like the Super Sons base or characters like Kathy in his run, that still doesn't mean they didn't happen or are not out there. New writers have different character and location priorities that they want to get around to.

    Speaking personally, I'd enjoy seeing Kathy and Damian reunite with Jon to get some reactions to the changes, but if they don't happen right away I won't be torn up about it or call it a "reboot." And I'm fairly confident that they'll address Jon's school and secret identity situation going forward (like if either can even stay) given, as I said before, Bendis already brought up Jon's school in his run.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  9. #3999
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    No I don't. I haven't made any assumptions on his personality at all yet. The closest I've come is saying that at the very least, Jon seems to retain some reverence for his father given that the solicit says that he comes to him for help. Outside of that one comment, I haven't assumed anything about Jon's personality and presented it as anything close to fact.
    Then how can you compare this to shonen timeskip or hyperbolic time chamber. The comparison is moot.This isn't anything like that. Jon had anime aesthetic, in previous run. But this is not related to it at all.
    One of the key defining features of clichéd shonen hero is that his personality largely never changes.This main shonen trope remains even after a time skip or hyperbolic time chamber excersice.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-20-2018 at 04:01 PM.

  10. #4000
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    (I maintain MoS happens after Doomsday Clock).
    There's nothing to indicate this and several important things (Superman getting the costume he has in Doomsday Clock in MOS and wearing it in other books, one of the notes on a table in one of the Action Comics first pages mentioning the Supermen theory is just beginning to circulate, word of god remaining that Doomsday Clock is set after the rest of the line) indicating the opposite.
    Buh-bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    There's nothing to indicate this and several important things (Superman getting the costume he has in Doomsday Clock in MOS and wearing it in other books, one of the notes on a table in one of the Action Comics first pages mentioning the Supermen theory is just beginning to circulate, word of god remaining that Doomsday Clock is set after the rest of the line) indicating the opposite.
    It's my pet theory and I'm sticking to it. We'll see in about a year!

  12. #4002
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    A lot more is lost than is gained, imo.
    Part of my point is we don't know what's been gained. Again, back to the Bat family comparison: technically speaking Dick, Jason, and Tim can fill the same functional narrative roles just off the standpoint that they're all now ex partners to Batman and men in their late teen to early 20s. And it's a loss that no one is Batman's partner right now because that's closing off a whole dynamic for Bruce and for any of them, but they all remain distinctive characters, and they're richer for it as characters because they must remain more than just an archetype to survive and thrive. None of them are at all defined by being Robin or even their current hero name. They are Dick, Tim, and Jason now and forever.

    Even though I was having a great time with him as a kid, I was starting to feel like Jon was falling into an archetype rather than building a distinctive character. It's not to say he didn't have distinct characteristics, but they were sort of being overshadowed or guided by the idea that he was the kid Superboy. I'm not arguing that this was the best way to stop him from falling into the trap he was already knee deep into--I'm not a writer so I wouldn't know-- but it is a way.

    I love growth as much as the next person, but there's something to be said for "putting the toys back in the box" sometimes.
    But in this case the toy is still there. I mean, there was already a drastic fundamental change by creating this toy in the first place, right? It's one of the reason why I never understood the argument against Rebirth that called the Kent Family stagnation. Yes, it's changed, but just like with Rebirth, the idea (son of Superman and Super family) seem to still very much be there but filtered through a new light.

    To me, Superman loses a lot in this loss of perspective, too, because the reader got to see Superman "through a kid's eyes,"
    Yes, but in its place we've gained actual perspective into Clark the person again. He's the star of both Superman and Action Comics again. He's a reporter who is actually interested in his job again. And when he's Superman he's going through the internal struggle of balancing the Super and the Man/man and the icon. I'm seeing Clark through Clark's eyes again, and I think it's time for that. I'm seeing the embers of a character arc in both books. Not really something that was there for him before.

    a younger Jon gives that much more of a reason for Superman to be a reflection of the real-world ideal he is,
    And that's putting Jon's archetype before his character. I mean, can you imagine if Dick stayed as he was originally created? He was originally made to give Batman someone to explain things to, and be in awe of him.

    I think that had it's time, and it came at a time when we really needed it. But I don't see it as a service to either Clark or Jon.

    All of that doesn't mean I'm not open to it winning me over, eventually.. just that my past experience with DC in general tells me this could very easily be a big mistake, and it'll take a pretty solid landing for this to shake that feeling with me.
    And you have every right to be cautious. I'd never suggest otherwise. I ultimately hope you, myself, and everyone for that matter likes everything and has a good time with everything, but I know that's likely not true for one reason or another. But, like with everyone, I can appreciate/understand what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Then how can you compare this to shonen timeskip or hyperbolic time chamber. The comparison is moot.
    By the fact that it is a large progression in time that we have yet to fully see depicted in a story. That is by definition a time skip. This is a time skip. That's how I can compare it to a time skip. You are taking the comparison to manga far to literally, and I don't actually know why at this point. It was intended to be a funny coincidence that I noticed, but you've escalated this far past what was necessary, and I've had my fill of this conversation. So, yeah, see you around.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 11-20-2018 at 04:11 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  13. #4003
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    By the fact that it is a large progression in time that we have yet to fully see depicted in a story. That is by definition a time skip. This is a time skip. That's how I can compare it to a time skip. You are taking the comparison to manga far to literally, and I don't actually know why at this point. It was intended to be a funny coincidence that I noticed, but you've escalated this far past what was necessary, and I've had my fill of this conversation. So, yeah, see you around.
    You said,this is similar to shonen manga/anime timeskip, specifically . Which I disagree with .Since it did not fit the bill.you said shonen timeskip and hyperbolic time chamber like plot devices are the same.which I disagree as well. Anyways, sorry if I wasted your time. Hope you have good day/night depending on your place. I can't believe, I am talking about manga in superman comicbook forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    You said,this is similar to shonen manga/anime timeskip, specifically . Which I disagree with .Since it did not fit the bill.you said shonen timeskip and hyperbolic time chamber like plot devices are the same.which I disagree as well. Anyways, sorry if I wasted your time. Hope you have good day/night depending on your place. I can't believe, I am talking about manga in superman comicbook forum.
    No, please, it's my bad. That last reply was far to harsh and flippant, and you didn't deserve that. You've said nothing to warrant that, so I apologize for that. You didn't waste my time. I enjoy talking about this stuff with like minded people. Ultimately my observation was mainly half hearted joke/observation on my part. I don't think it has any narrative weight, and I don't think it was even Bendis' actual intention. It was just something funny to me, and you're more than welcome to disagree with the idea of it. There are no hard feelings here.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  15. #4005
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Part of my point is we don't know what's been gained. Again, back to the Bat family comparison: technically speaking Dick, Jason, and Tim can fill the same functional narrative roles just off the standpoint that they're all now ex partners to Batman and men in their late teen to early 20s. And it's a loss that no one is Batman's partner right now because that's closing off a whole dynamic for Bruce and for any of them, but they all remain distinctive characters, and they're richer for it as characters because they must remain more than just an archetype to survive and thrive. None of them are at all defined by being Robin or even their current hero name. They are Dick, Tim, and Jason now and forever.

    And that's putting Jon's archetype before his character. I mean, can you imagine if Dick stayed as he was originally created? He was originally made to give Batman someone to explain things to, and be in awe of him.

    I think that had it's time, and it came at a time when we really needed it. But I don't see it as a service to either Clark or Jon.
    Oh, I don't disagree about Dick, Jason and Tim - but they don't have to have to fill that role because that's what Damian is there for (yes, I know it's more of a play-off against the idea, but still). I don't see Lois and Clark having more kids anytime soon, so I find a Dick/Jason/Tim/Damian parallel unlikely. There will be Jon, and eventually Conner (again? I'm guessing it won't be a fresh re-introduction with Conner). I don't know about "it had it's time" - just a touch over two years and (really) only two main writers handling it doesn't seem like they spent any time in there.

    Even though I was having a great time with him as a kid, I was starting to feel like Jon was falling into an archetype rather than building a distinctive character. It's not to say he didn't have distinct characteristics, but they were sort of being overshadowed or guided by the idea that he was the kid Superboy. I'm not arguing that this was the best way to stop him from falling into the trap he was already knee deep into--I'm not a writer so I wouldn't know-- but it is a way.
    Part of that was we only (mostly) saw one or two "voices" for him: Tomasi's and Jurgens's.. and half of their time was spent in a holding pattern waiting for various other things to happen. Part of the "kid Superboy" archetype was, imo, just them setting up a status quo to make it stable before starting to play more with it. Bendis was doing some interesting personal pieces with Jon in the flashbacks, and seeing more of that could have been good - especially within the "not normal is normal for them" family dynamic he was talking about. I *was* almost excited about that.. now, possibly not so much. While it *is* a way to get out of the trap, it just as easily can set him into another one (one that we've seen some of the Robins fall into at times, not to mention the giant bundling of Conner in the New52, etc). I haven't seen many comics writers write characters during puberty in a non-stereotypical, tropey way, and that's concerning. Because then he'll get another quick age-up so the next writer "knows what to do with him," if you know what I mean.

    But in this case the toy is still there. I mean, there was already a drastic fundamental change by creating this toy in the first place, right? It's one of the reason why I never understood the argument against Rebirth that called the Kent Family stagnation. Yes, it's changed, but just like with Rebirth, the idea (son of Superman and Super family) seem to still very much be there but filtered through a new light.
    He's there, kinda, depending on what happens. That's true that he was a big change, though. I just think this added something that an age-up takes away. Heck, the average person still doesn't even know who Jon is, let alone be used to him enough for this to have any real meaning. That's another reason why I don't feel it's time has passed, yet. Letting this breathe a bit until it's a wider-felt status quo wouldn't be a bad thing, and would make the change that much more powerful (imo). Dick had 44 years of being Robin, for instance. This would be like Dick going from being Robin to being Nightwing before anybody had any clue who Robin was.

    Yes, but in its place we've gained actual perspective into Clark the person again. He's the star of both Superman and Action Comics again. He's a reporter who is actually interested in his job again. And when he's Superman he's going through the internal struggle of balancing the Super and the Man/man and the icon. I'm seeing Clark through Clark's eyes again, and I think it's time for that. I'm seeing the embers of a character arc in both books. Not really something that was there for him before.
    I absolutely love that, too. And I'm not saying that should be different, but having a bit of both as an option has it's uses for strong storytelling. We can see Jon's perspective without losing Clark's, and Bendis seemed to handle that pretty well. Maybe he used the only spurts of that he had? lol

    And you have every right to be cautious. I'd never suggest otherwise. I ultimately hope you, myself, and everyone for that matter likes everything and has a good time with everything, but I know that's likely not true for one reason or another. But, like with everyone, I can appreciate/understand what you mean.
    I hope so, too. I'd hate to drop the books again, as they've been (mostly) a lot of fun up until now.
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