Official : Bendis gets both books

[Kuwagaton]

I think the key point in Rich's post was (bolded):

However, I have been tipped off by DC editorial sources that the numbers that DC Comics received were a lot lower than expected. A lot lower. Less than you might expect for a new Superman title relaunching the character with A-List talent and spinning out of Action Comics #1001 and DC Nation #0 and more like – well, a newly launching Brian Bendis title at Marvel, without the tiered variants.

Basically saying "it's selling what you would expect a 2017/18 Bendis comic to sell", whereas DC may have been expecting more like 2007/08 Bendis when they greased his palm...



There's no way DC were expecting MoS #1 to track sub-100k.

For one thing, despite your last sentence, it's the rare exception that sales actually grow - both Superman & Action are likely to be de facto capped at the orders MoS gets.

For a second, they're not shoving out "BENDIS IS COMING!" ads for literally months on end just to see a launch lower than the *normal* sales of Batman - MoS #1 has to be one of DC's biggest issues of the year (not AC #1000 big, but still Event Big, comparing to the likes of Doomsday Clock & Metal) to justify the level of promotion they're giving it, when allowing that it will basically be downhill from there.

And third, both Superman & Action are dropping to monthly as part of the relaunch (not to mention the cancellations of Super-Sons, Supergirl and New Super-Man), and I doubt Bendis is on a lower writing page rate than Tomasi/Gleason or Jurgens. It's too crude to say it needs to sell twice as much per issue to justify it, but it certainly needs to be waaaay ahead of where the prior runs were to stand still from a profit standpoint, and they were both in the 40-50k band. A settled level 60-70k is unlikely to be enough, never mind a launch.

It looks like you missed my point, which wasn't predicting their expectations in figures but merely saying that what may disappoint them in regards to numbers is still relatively strong and that there's no telling what success can be found at the retail level anyway

[Armor of God]

L&C was hugely hyped despite it, at least as far as people knew at the time, not intended to be the "main" Superman, because it was a book for the vocal post-Crisis fans at the time and they marketed it towards them. As hyped as this? No. But it was hyped (and in retrospect just as relevant, even if we didn't quite know how much at the time). So its one example of a Superman mini not doing all that well. In fact, when the Rebirth details were revealed and those very same versions of the characters and status quo jumped to the main books, you got a jump. Which again serves to reinforce the main point that you get bigger boosts once things translate to the main books over the mini in such a situation.

Its disappointing either way, if DC is disappointed than of course that's not the best news in the world. But the reality is what the reality is when it comes to Superman and his popularity or lack thereof these days. I'm not apologizing for poor performance. But there's always reasons. This could very well be one of them. Could a wariness of Bendis be another? Perhaps. I'm not a Marvel reader and I haven't been a Bendis reader before this, I don't know how deep the resentment on their end goes nor can I quantify how that would translate to DC readers.

It was not hugely hyped. It was a fringe title that many felt was DCs attempt at pandering to nostalgia. Especially because it came on the heels of a poorly recieved event that also pandered to nostalgia and then DCs sales as a whole took a nose dive during that era. L & C could have bombed and it would have made no difference to the Superline of books something which DC was well aware of. If MOS flunks then DC is screwed. Bendis is the only game in town for Superman, surely you realize that DC severely overestimated him? Even finance noobs are told not to put all your eggs in one basket. DC has thrown all their weight behind Bendis who is nowhere near the big star he used to be, not even close and then the first thing he does is dangle the fates of Lois and Jon like bait in a popular era that owes its popularity to them, exactly what his detractors believed he'd do and then he kicks off his story via retcons and disregard of continuity. I know you'll probably say "writer x does it too" but Bendis isn't writer x, Bendis is Bendis and he needed to avoid Bendising at all costs. Ofcourse I notice that DC has always been far more reliant on super star writers than their characters which imo is the difference between them and Marvel. Take Frank Miller as an example, you can only milk these guys for so long based on work they did decades ago before it starts crashing.
I think its a valuable lesson to DC. Build up the characters, build up good will and capitalize on it instead of sweeping it aside for some meaningless status quo changes.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

While I am sure DC would like Man of Steel to sell huge numbers in the comic shops, Bendis is going to sell about the same he usually does on the direct market.

However, all this is completely forgetting about digital sales and TPBs, which is making up a larger percentage of how many people are actually reading your story. There's a reason Bendis was out there doing interviews with every mainstream media outlet he could find and it wasn't to reach an ever dwindling market of hobbyists who go to their local comics shop every Wednesday to buy their week's worth of 22-page comics, most of whom have already decided if they like his stuff or not. Bendis was out there hussling because he knows full-well who most of his audience is, and they aren't reading Newsarama, Bleeding Cool or CBR. Bendis wants his Superman stuff to be read on phones, tablets, and trades and that's where DC's focus is these days and will be more and more in the future. The direct market is just one part of a much larger pie that DC is aiming for.

[Armor of God]

While I am sure DC would like Man of Steel to sell huge numbers in the comic shops, Bendis is going to sell about the same he usually does on the direct market.

However, all this is completely forgetting about digital sales and TPBs, which is making up a larger percentage of how many people are actually reading your story. There's a reason Bendis was out there doing interviews with every mainstream media outlet he could find and it wasn't to reach an ever dwindling market of hobbyists who go to their local comics shop every Wednesday to buy their week's worth of 22-page comics, most of whom have already decided if they like his stuff or not. Bendis was out there hussling because he knows full-well who most of his audience is, and they aren't reading Newsarama, Bleeding Cool or CBR. Bendis wants his Superman stuff to be read on phones, tablets, and trades and that's where DC's focus is these days and will be more and more in the future. The direct market is just one part of a much larger pie that DC is aiming for.

This applies to everything not just Superman and furthermore the direct and TPB market comprise of the overwhelming majority of sales, digital sales are actually very small. I dont know what wizardry Bendis is going to perform that leads to digital sales skyrocketing and hordes of new readers arriving. Even his basic pitch for the Superman books is virtually non existent. There's far more emphasis on "Bendis is coming" than on what the books are actually going to look like. He's talked about journalism having prominence on Action Comics but thats about it. There's about no hint of what Bendis is actually going to do. DC has marketed this the wrong way, they thought that using Bendis's name alone would bring some huge fanbase to the Super books they were dead wrong.

[JasonTodd428]

It was not hugely hyped. It was a fringe title that many felt was DCs attempt at pandering to nostalgia. Especially because it came on the heels of a poorly recieved event that also pandered to nostalgia and then DCs sales as a whole took a nose dive during that era. L & C could have bombed and it would have made no difference to the Superline of books something which DC was well aware of. If MOS flunks then DC is screwed. Bendis is the only game in town for Superman, surely you realize that DC severely overestimated him? Even finance noobs are told not to put all your eggs in one basket. DC has thrown all their weight behind Bendis who is nowhere near the big star he used to be, not even close and then the first thing he does is dangle the fates of Lois and Jon like bait in a popular era that owes its popularity to them, exactly what his detractors believed he'd do and then he kicks off his story via retcons and disregard of continuity. I know you'll probably say "writer x does it too" but Bendis isn't writer x, Bendis is Bendis and he needed to avoid Bendising at all costs. Ofcourse I notice that DC has always been far more reliant on super star writers than their characters which imo is the difference between them and Marvel. Take Frank Miller as an example, you can only milk these guys for so long based on work they did decades ago before it starts crashing.
I think its a valuable lesson to DC. Build up the characters, build up good will and capitalize on it instead of sweeping it aside for some meaningless status quo changes.

Yes, Bendis being the only game in town for Superman is the decision that still bothers me the most here. Well that and the fact that as soon as Bendis shows up all other Super books are canned just so he can have complete control over the Superman part of the DCU. Yes, I do realize he might be looking to create some sort of cohesion between the books as they are relaunched during his run or perhaps out of MoS but from a certain angle it does look like that he swept in and cleared the board so he could do his own thing. I don't recall any time where a new writer came onto a book or books where it also coincidentally happened that all other titles in that franchise were similarly cancelled.

[JAK]

It was not hugely hyped. It was a fringe title that many felt was DCs attempt at pandering to nostalgia. Especially because it came on the heels of a poorly recieved event that also pandered to nostalgia and then DCs sales as a whole took a nose dive during that era. L & C could have bombed and it would have made no difference to the Superline of books something which DC was well aware of. If MOS flunks then DC is screwed. Bendis is the only game in town for Superman, surely you realize that DC severely overestimated him? Even finance noobs are told not to put all your eggs in one basket. DC has thrown all their weight behind Bendis who is nowhere near the big star he used to be, not even close and then the first thing he does is dangle the fates of Lois and Jon like bait in a popular era that owes its popularity to them, exactly what his detractors believed he'd do and then he kicks off his story via retcons and disregard of continuity. I know you'll probably say "writer x does it too" but Bendis isn't writer x, Bendis is Bendis and he needed to avoid Bendising at all costs. Ofcourse I notice that DC has always been far more reliant on super star writers than their characters which imo is the difference between them and Marvel. Take Frank Miller as an example, you can only milk these guys for so long based on work they did decades ago before it starts crashing.
I think its a valuable lesson to DC. Build up the characters, build up good will and capitalize on it instead of sweeping it aside for some meaningless status quo changes.

Definitely agree that L&C wasn't hyped all that much. A bit, certainly, but not huge. I know I hyped it a lot on Facebook, but that doesn't count, lol!

I do have a question, though... what continuity is he disregarding, that we know of so far? Because to me, it doesn't look like anything so far. Not saying he won't, just that I don't think we've seen any yet.

--

On the topic of digital vs comic shops (I forgot to tag the post).. ironically, Superman sold the most when his books were still on newsstands. So for me, I kinda wish DC'd take ques from that in their marketing for Superman. He'll never (ever) be a "darling" of the comic geek world. It's just not happening. That world responds to Batman and Wolverine (etc). Superman is a wider market character, and does better that way, imo.

[adrikito]

Interesting story regarding MOS. Thoughts?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/...mics-expected/

I heard the news about BENDIS too.

The orders are a lot lower than DC comics expected.. This reminds me the first time that I heard BENDIS name HERE, the 90% of CBR users were scared and now the people is less interested in buy superman.

[Sacred Knight]

It was not hugely hyped. It was a fringe title that many felt was DCs attempt at pandering to nostalgia. Especially because it came on the heels of a poorly recieved event that also pandered to nostalgia and then DCs sales as a whole took a nose dive during that era. L & C could have bombed and it would have made no difference to the Superline of books something which DC was well aware of. If MOS flunks then DC is screwed. Bendis is the only game in town for Superman, surely you realize that DC severely overestimated him? Even finance noobs are told not to put all your eggs in one basket. DC has thrown all their weight behind Bendis who is nowhere near the big star he used to be, not even close and then the first thing he does is dangle the fates of Lois and Jon like bait in a popular era that owes its popularity to them, exactly what his detractors believed he'd do and then he kicks off his story via retcons and disregard of continuity. I know you'll probably say "writer x does it too" but Bendis isn't writer x, Bendis is Bendis and he needed to avoid Bendising at all costs. Ofcourse I notice that DC has always been far more reliant on super star writers than their characters which imo is the difference between them and Marvel. Take Frank Miller as an example, you can only milk these guys for so long based on work they did decades ago before it starts crashing.
I think its a valuable lesson to DC. Build up the characters, build up good will and capitalize on it instead of sweeping it aside for some meaningless status quo changes.

Fair enough on "largely hyped" That was hyperbole. But it was marketed and got a good amount of attention in its arrival. You're absolutely right it was a nostalgia piece and that's how it was sold to the public. It was seen as a gift to fans of the post-Crisis era. Something doesn't have to be main continuity to be marketed, and L&C was marketed. And about halfway to 3/4 through we found out different, we found out these were the characters that actually were taking over the main books and thuswould affect from a story pov the main titles. The only reason I ever made the comparison was to support the point of how in general, minis can not do so well even when utilizing a popular concept. That's it. This isn't the exact same situation for a variety of reasons. It was just an in general.

Now, all that stuff about Bendis? Time will tell there. You obviously have your grievances. That's fine. But, you are absolutely right, as I will counter and say writer x has done every tactic that DC and Bendis has used to hype this storyline. If his reputation is making fans who already don't like him mad, well, what do you do to avoid that? NOT market your product with completely standard, by-the-numbers practices just because some fans don't like the guy? I don't see how that helps. Drama and strife for your characters are textbook. It happens more often than not. Now, I understand that fans get a little fidgety what with the recent relaunches and reboots. But that's not a Bendis problem in this context, its a DC problem. He may have contributed to what went on at Marvel but he's not the reason for DC's shaky foundation. THAT'S why fans were quick to worry about Lois and Jon. But even then, does that mean there has to be a hands-off policy on soliciting drama and worry for them? Of course not. In spite of DC's foul-ups, in spite of my own irritation and understanding how its draining on the fanbase, I don't subscribe to the idea that the fan now needs to be babied from standard marketing practices. Cohesion and stability will be proven or disproven in the product itself, not the hype beforehand.

All of that said, I can definitely see how it might turn out that they overestimated what just his name alone might bring. I'm with everyone on that.

[JasonTodd428]

All that stuff about Bendis? Time will tell there. You're using this to jump on the assumption already that this was a terrible idea, but I'm not even close to prepared to doing that yet. You're damn write I'll say writer x has done every tactic that DC and Bendis has used to hype this storyline. If his reputation is making fans who already don't like him mad, well, what do you do to avoid that? NOT market your product with completely standard, by-the-numbers practices just because some fans don't like the guy? Drama and strife for your characters are textbook. It happens more often than not. Now, I understand that fans get a little fidgety what with the recent relaunches and reboots. But that's not a Bendis problem in this context, its a DC problem. He may have contributed to what went on at Marvel but he's not the reason for DC's shaky foundation. THAT'S why fans were quick to worry about Lois and Jon. But even then, does that mean there has to be a hands-off policy on soliciting drama and worry for them? Of course not. In spite of DC's foul-ups, in spite of my own irritation and understanding how its draining on the fanbase, I don't subscribe to the idea that the fan now needs to be babied from standard marketing practices. Cohesion and stability will be proven or disproven in the product itself, not the hype beforehand.

Indeed time will tell if this was a good idea or a monumentally bad one and we certainly will have a better idea once we get into the meat of Bendis's run. I'm even all for giving Bendis a chance to prove naysayers wrong about what they believe will happen. I totally agree with you on that as I also agree with you on the fact fans are more than little fidgety because of all the constant reboots and relaunches but I don't think that's all that's going on here at all. I really do think a larger part of the problem IS Bendis and that it is Bendis who is making fans react the way they are more so than DCs shaky foundation with Superman or really anything else. His work in recent years hasn't been that well received and like it or not that's going to have an effect on how fans react to him being in seemingly complete control of Superman. Also I can't really think of any instance where a new writer comes onto the main titles of a franchise and coincidentally all other books in that franchise are cancelled just when that writer takes over as has happened here so that doesn't really help the situation at all either regardless of whether those cancellations were going to happen anyway or not. In fact it only adds fuel to the fire so to speak and thus fans are even more tense about Bendis being on both books. He's going to have an uphill battle I think because of all the negatives connected with his past work and that's certainly not on DC nor does it have anything to do with the marketing of this mini or even the marketing of his run as a whole.

[DragonPiece]

Bendis has already finished 14 issues(so 6 MOS issues +8 issues of AC/SM)). https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...01662047113216

[Sacred Knight]

Very nice.

[bigstupidjellyfish]

God, I want his Superman run to just start already. Sometimes, I hate that I trade wait. The pros weren’t kidding when they said this was gonna be a great year for comics!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This applies to everything not just Superman and furthermore the direct and TPB market comprise of the overwhelming majority of sales, digital sales are actually very small. I dont know what wizardry Bendis is going to perform that leads to digital sales skyrocketing and hordes of new readers arriving. Even his basic pitch for the Superman books is virtually non existent. There's far more emphasis on "Bendis is coming" than on what the books are actually going to look like. He's talked about journalism having prominence on Action Comics but thats about it. There's about no hint of what Bendis is actually going to do. DC has marketed this the wrong way, they thought that using Bendis's name alone would bring some huge fanbase to the Super books they were dead wrong.

Do you have any numbers to back up that digital is still a small percentage of sales? I was under the impression that actual numbers for digital are not released publicly, so we have no idea how much of sales are digital, do we? Or have I been misinformed?

[Frontier]

Bendis has already finished 14 issues(so 6 MOS issues +8 issues of AC/SM)). https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...01662047113216

Bendis is nothing if not very efficient when writing comics.

Especially since he's putting most of his energy into Superman now.

[Kuwagaton]

God, I want his Superman run to just start already. Sometimes, I hate that I trade wait. The pros weren’t kidding when they said this was gonna be a great year for comics!

I really think so too. I mean hoping the best for Bendis wouldn't really be a worthwhile objective if I didn't really think he had good work in him.