Official : Bendis gets both books

[Miles To Go]

DC Writer's Summit this weekend

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/06...nk-for-summit/

[JasonTodd428]

The difference with Damian is that he was an unknown child in the lore. Bruce didn't know he existed, he was the product with a supporting character he hadn't been close to in some time. Thus it made more sense to explain away the readership not knowing that he existed, that Talia was ever pregnant (had a test tube, whatever), etc. Damian was, in the continuity, a surprise on Bruce's doorstep. If you go from pre-FP to Rebirth, we have a Lois Lane who had never been pregnant before to having given birth to a son ten years ago. The former is a whole lot easier to swallow than the latter.

Honestly to me they are both of the "surprise on a doorstep" variety and really the only reason there is a seeming gap between Lois Pre-FP and Rebirth (or even the Lois and Clark mini to be more accurate) is because the N52 basically threw everything out, including the very relationship between Lois and Clark that existed in the Pre-FP universe. Without the reboot there really wouldn't be a gap between the two and no need for things to have been set up the way that they were in order of Jon to even exist. That's water under the bridge at this point though.

As for adoption or another kid, I hope not right now. Maybe in the future but not right now. I'd like to be able to enjoy this time, however brief, where he gets to do some solo'ing. When it comes to an unorthodox family set up, for now I think what Bendis means is simply that its going to be different when the patriarch of your family is Superman. For obvious reasons. I could easily see adoption or something coming into play in the future though if Bendis stays a while.

I don't want him to adopt anyone right now either but I do think it could be something interesting for later on. I'd really like to see Jon being a brother to someone because I think it might add something to the character and also it would give him someone to play off of that isn't Clark or Lois.

[Superlad93]

I'd really like to see Jon being a brother to someone because I think it might add something to the character and also it would give him someone to play off of that isn't Clark or Lois.

You're describing Damian though, right? Tomasi and Gleason describe them as "brothers in arms" but even that grows to what is basically a familial bond that's only rivaled by Dick Grayson, Damian's actual adopted older brother. I don't pretend to know what Bendis wants to do in the future, but narratively speaking Jon already has the equivalent to a brother. The original Super Sons functioned like this too.

From the interview with Time, Bendis talks about Lois and Clark raising Jon being a very unique situation that requires a very unique approach, so as far as any not-so-normal family ideas regarding Jon, I imagine that's the direction he's coming at it from rather than adding a second child.

[Sacred Knight]

Yeah, considering the Damian situation, not to mention if they ever bring Conner back, that's plenty of brothers. If Lois were to get pregnant again or adopt anytime in the future, it should be a girl anyway.

[Superlad93]

I'd be down, but at this stage it's faaaaaaaaar to early given Jon himself and the concept of Kents as a 3 person family hasn't even been explored past the surface level so far. The paint on Jon hasn't even had time to dry let alone get a second coat put to it. So, I'd like to see Bendis really write the crap out of him and them before DC even begins to form the crumb of a thought for a second child.

[Sacred Knight]

Oh I agree. This isn't something that should, nor do I anticipate, happening any time in the near future. Again, unless we're talking Conner. Bendis can feel free to make that can happen any time and the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

[Superlad93]

Genuinely no telling if Bendis even has Conner on his radar let alone plans for him. I'd be down, but he seems pretty focused on Clark himself right now. My guess is that if we're ever gonna get Conner back it'll be from Johns himself in his new imprint dealing with underused or forgotten DC characters.

[Sacred Knight]

Full disclosure that's just my wishing coming into play. I have no expectations there. Really I have no clue what or if anyone has any plans for that generation period.

[Ascended]

I think there are plans for Conner and Bart.

We've seen Conner name-dropped a few times. His absence from continuity has been conspicuous. Going back to the post-Reborn origin stuff, Conner was explicitly left out of the "Reign" image. That's not a mistake, that reeks of intentional; the "Reign" era is *always* drawn with all four Supermen. And Tim Drake has heard that name a few times now, from at least two different people. It's in his ear.

And Bart was recently mentioned in Flash, from what I hear. Again, something about "someone who's missing."

Young Justice season 3 is coming later this year.

And Tim just set off on a road trip in 'Tec, (with another character who'll be in YJs3) in search of answers and to points unknown.

My next paycheck says a Young Justice Rebirth is in the works. Might not hit til the 2020 Crisis, since this generation is involved with the missing decade. But they're coming.

[stephens2177]

My hope is that I don't have to "just" read about Kon in the Injustice series....until they kill him,I would like for him to be back in the proper DCU.

Bendis,king,John's,yeah any of them could bring him back easily.

Bart is practically in every issue of the flash now in some way.
Aqualad is without a team,but is now a DCU proper character
Miss martian is now getting the aqualad treatment and getting reintroduced
Tim and Steph are off to who knows where looking for who knows what (Kon plz)

I bet Cassie will be brought in somewhere to be reintroduced soon.

Don't give me lobdell Kon,or Geoff Kon,or kesel Kon,or Weissman Kon,I want ALL of them to be merged and give me that Kon(I can merge them and make sense easily,I'm sure ppl who get paid to write stories can do it better than me)

[Atlas]

It doesn't matter if its just speculation or not. When one has an ax to grind, and especially when what they're opposed to is thus far overwhelmingly critically and fan praised, they'll grab anything in their anger to support that anger fuller.


And I'm not judging (though I AM getting a little tired of the "sheep" insinuations towards others, that's a line). I've been there. I've majorly disliked moves in the recent past that were largely lauded and thus left me out in the cold. Its not a good feeling. But it also leads to paper-thin arguments, contradictions, and double-standards and isn't fair to the creator(s).

"Fair to the creators?" There is no "fair to the creators" when they mistreat characters that are iconic and have a decades-spanning legacy. Theirs is responsibility and a privilege, not a right, and it's also a job. As a consumer, I have every right to criticize their work when I find it lacking. Already, Bendis has shown disdain for the status quo of the last two years despite his assertions to John Siuntres that "everything was great" before he came aboard. His first decision in his first major Superman work, milestone issue that celebrates the iconic nature of Superman, is to have Superman get his ass handed to him by Bendis' new villain. This speaks volumes of his approach: deconstruction and cheap drama. He comes aboard and instead of working with the established mythology, has to to undo it and "put his mark on it." This is the height of hubris and the last time I heard those words with Superman, it was Gene Yang and DC You and before him, David Goyer and Man of Steel. They both proceeded from the same false notion: "Superman isn't good enough as he is and has to be changed." That's where "putting their mark" comes into play. Jurgens, Tomasi, and Gleason used the existing Superman mythology and his iconic nature as a basis for good stories. They felt no need to change Superman to satisfy an egotistical need to recreate something in their image so as to "improve it."

Bendis has to "tweak" Krypton and has to change the family status quo. The argument, "well, it's only temporary" is irrelevant. We know that Jurgens and Co. were going to go off in new directions after AC1K but it's a safe bet that didn't mean some kind of hackneyed separation of the family or introduction of a potential "love interest." Bendis has shown his disdain for continuity many times over the years (his Avengers work comes to mind) and now he's doing the same with Superman. He destroyed the Avengers because he wouldn't work with them as they were and had to deconstruct and then rebuild them as he saw fit. That's poor storytelling no matter the outcome.

As for a "sheep" insinuation, that's perhaps your own issue. I didn't imply any such thing, only that many fans are far too willing to give creators a pass when it comes to a character said fans claim to care about. I don't spend hundreds of dollars a year on comics because I have expendable income, and after reading comics for 30 years, I'll be damned if I'll support further deconstruction of Superman by people who are openly contemptuous of him (DiDio) or who refuse to work on a character without changes made for the sake of change or melodrama (Bendis). The destruction of Kandor was excessive and done only for the sake of creating angst.

Taking a piece of speculation and using it to further your ax-grinding is one thing but the fault for that lies not on the one doing the speculating but on the ax grinder themselves. They are, after all, the ones who are taking those speculations and using them to strengthen whatever their argument is. Any piece of speculation, good or bad, could be used in such a manner and, if we wanted to get technical, even those who view Bendis's work in a positive light do the same just in a more positive, and therefore, acceptable manner. It six one way, half a dozen the other really.

Personally, its absolutely fine for people to be worried and to voice those concerns if they feel the need. Its likewise just fine for people to not want to read the books because they feel a writer isn't to be trusted with a character they love. I really don't see a problem at all with either of those things.

I feel the same way. Such tactics are used on both sides and there are many here who are pro-Bendis or who were anti-Rebirth.

He definitely seems to be putting everything he's got into this. And he's apparently a real fan of the character, which goes a long way in my book. Any writer who puts their all into Superman gets my respect for trying, if not my money.

I can see it if this is a run people don't like. But boycotting the title? On what grounds? That they didn't like Bendis' other work? That's some ridiculous fan entitlement right there.

"Fan entitlement." Are you really this delusional? Fans are indeed entitled to vote with their wallets when the PRODUCTS they support as CONSUMERS is of poor or lacking quality. You seem to think that fans are supposed to bow and scrape at the throne of a writer or creator, thankful for whatever scraps are tossed their way. I refuse to do anything but demand the very best from creators whose salaries I pay and who are being entrusted with the PRIVILEGE to work on characters like Superman. It's an awesome responsibility and duty, not just another notch on their creative belts or a venue for "making a mark."

My hope is that I don't have to "just" read about Kon in the Injustice series....until they kill him,I would like for him to be back in the proper DCU.

Bendis,king,John's,yeah any of them could bring him back easily.

Bart is practically in every issue of the flash now in some way.
Aqualad is without a team,but is now a DCU proper character
Miss martian is now getting the aqualad treatment and getting reintroduced
Tim and Steph are off to who knows where looking for who knows what (Kon plz)

I bet Cassie will be brought in somewhere to be reintroduced soon.

Don't give me lobdell Kon,or Geoff Kon,or kesel Kon,or Weissman Kon,I want ALL of them to be merged and give me that Kon(I can merge them and make sense easily,I'm sure ppl who get paid to write stories can do it better than me)

I hate to tell you this, but any hope of Connor or Bart returning for very long or, as we're seeing with Wally West, returning to proper treatment, disappeared when Johns left the CCO position. DiDio loathes legacy characters and he and Lee are now the sole authorities on the DCU in comic book form. It won't be long before they've undone the developments of Rebirth, especially references to pre-Flashpoint continuity. The New 52 was their baby and they're going to play up those aspects again as they move toward a new Crisis event.

[stephens2177]

Jurgens could write and draw Superman forever and same for tomassi and Gleason no doubt.im still feeling out bendis myself,he has written certain things well and done some things I wouldn't have done myself.

Young Justice 4 life
Bring back Kon
Screw anybody who gets in the way

[Sacred Knight]

"Fair to the creators?" There is no "fair to the creators" when they mistreat characters that are iconic and have a decades-spanning legacy. Theirs is responsibility and a privilege, not a right, and it's also a job. As a consumer, I have every right to criticize their work when I find it lacking. Already, Bendis has shown disdain for the status quo of the last two years despite his assertions to John Siuntres that "everything was great" before he came aboard. His first decision in his first major Superman work, milestone issue that celebrates the iconic nature of Superman, is to have Superman get his ass handed to him by Bendis' new villain. This speaks volumes of his approach: deconstruction and cheap drama. He comes aboard and instead of working with the established mythology, has to to undo it and "put his mark on it." This is the height of hubris and the last time I heard those words with Superman, it was Gene Yang and DC You and before him, David Goyer and Man of Steel. They both proceeded from the same false notion: "Superman isn't good enough as he is and has to be changed." That's where "putting their mark" comes into play. Jurgens, Tomasi, and Gleason used the existing Superman mythology and his iconic nature as a basis for good stories. They felt no need to change Superman to satisfy an egotistical need to recreate something in their image so as to "improve it."

I never said you didn't have the right to criticize the work. I'm retorting with the claim that you're not approaching it with a rational eye due the many documented contradictions and double-standards in your claims. People have the right to criticize, people have the right to retort. That's the way it works. Your entire argument falls apart when you bring up the Rebirth era and how it didn't feel it needed to change anything. It changed more than Bendis has. They overhauled the history, again. They gave Superman a child, a major change to the dynamic of Lois and Clark. Certain character histories were changed/retconned. And all this is not just a "reverting back from a New 52" POV. This is a changing of even pre-FP ideas. They also moved the family from Metropolis to a farm well outside the city. They completely changed Luthor's modus operandi. Two examples of that kind of "temporary" status quo changes you're picking and choosing who to accuse of implementing (bear in mind I'm not blanketly condemning nor condoning the changes; that's not the point I'm making, the point is simply that they incorporated a lot of change). Bendis is continuing from their changes. So its ridiculous that you keep peddling the falsehood that they didn't change anything. You fall back on the buzz word of iconic a lot, but it doesn't change the fact their era, under their pens, instituted quite a few alterations. Bendis has thus far changed something with the Krypton reveal. More changes to come? I don't know, I don't get to read issues in advance. So yeah, anyone can criticize a writer they don't care for within the scope of the work, but at the same time others are also free to call out the inconsistencies in the arguments in your comparisons to the past era.

As for a "sheep" insinuation, that's perhaps your own issue. I didn't imply any such thing, only that many fans are far too willing to give creators a pass when it comes to a character said fans claim to care about. I don't spend hundreds of dollars a year on comics because I have expendable income, and after reading comics for 30 years, I'll be damned if I'll support further deconstruction of Superman by people who are openly contemptuous of him (DiDio) or who refuse to work on a character without changes made for the sake of change or melodrama (Bendis). The destruction of Kandor was excessive and done only for the sake of creating angst.

No, its simply the things you're saying. Your Stockholm Syndrome comments were meant to convey that we're consuming and supporting something that in our right minds wouldn't like and should not support. That's pretty condescending without having to reach far to get there. You're doing it again right here by talking about people who "claim" to like Superman. If people like the character they like the character. There is no claim about it, like they have to prove it to you somehow. If you don't want to support stuff you don't like, more than fine, but that doesn't make you special. Lots of people don't support what they don't like. That we're supporting something we do like doesn't make us wrong or deluded because you don't share the opinion. What you like isn't factually "proper Superman" and what you don't like isn't factually disrespectful to Superman that no other "real fan" wouldn't support.

[RepHope]

Rebirth
1. Killed off New 52 Superman and then merged him with Superdad
2. Made Clark and Lois married again
3. Erased the Supes/WW relationship
4. Gave Supes a biological son, Jon
5. Retconned Jor-El’s Death and made him a villain, Mr. Oz
6. Created Hamilton and made it the new home place for the Kents, Metropolis and the Daily Planet barely featured
7. Restored Manchester Black to life
8. Retconned “Faora” back to “Ursa”
9. Tossed Morrison’s Action Comics Origin (a shame since I believe Supes should have a Golden Age style Origin)
10. And in the end retconned Convergence since Jon now had a normal birth on Earth in the Fortress

I enjoyed it a lot but the idea that it “respected previous continuity” is hogwash. It basically scorched earthed what came before and soft rebooted the Superline. I think it did a wonderful job and had a strong ending, but it very much played fast and loose with continuity. Bendis has not done anything even close to what Jurgens and Tomasi did. Clark and Lois are still married, Jon still exists, the Rebirth runs still happened. Bendis’ “retcons” right now are

1. Established that Krypton was an expansionist empire at one point (something that was established by Johns in Post-Cross, so Bendis is just bringing that back)
2. Had Krypton’s death be tied to an outside force, something Johns had hinted at with Brainiac.
3. Brought Kandor back and in bottle form
That’s nothing to be perfectly honest. That’s utterly minuscule in the grand scheme of “what’s Superman’s canon today?”

[Sacred Knight]

Let's even forget about the New 52 changes for a moment, since that was the whole point of the initiative. Let's just look at pre-FP, the continuity they were pretty much bringing back, and look at how that was kept pristine...or not so much:

1. The Kents died on Clark's prom night.
2. Conner Kent/Kon-El was completely erased from continuity.
3. Jon Kent, a ten year old son of Clark and Lois now exists.
4. The Eradicator's origin is now that of a once one of many Krypotonian war machines controlled by General Zod that had merged into one sentient being, not Kem-El's device.
5. New Krypton never happened.
6. Because of five, General Sam Lane never killed himself nor went full-on villain.
6. Sam Lane presumably never was even once presumed dead in the aftermath of Imperiex War.
7. Manchester Black never killed himself.
8. Lois and Clark never foster cared for Lor-Zod/Chris Kent.
9. Lor-Zod was indeed just raised by Zod and Ursa and appears firmly in their camp and close to them.
10. Superman had to go into hiding for Lois's sake after she was targeted by Intergang in a story that never happened in the old continuity. With baby Jon they lived in California for a while where Clark took a sabbatical from Superman, at least in the public eye, for an undisclosed but significant period of time.
11. After that Clark, Lois, and Jon moved to Hamilton County and lived there ever since, having just recently moved back to Metropolis after nearly a decade of not living there.

That's just off the top of my head.