Official : Bendis gets both books

[SiegePerilous02]

Clark had some genuinely funny lines here lol

Indeed he did. I loved the Batman one.

And he's totally right about the JL being the gold standard. The Titans are not in good shape lol.

I am a bit annoyed that Lois didn't get much more to say beyond "Us!", though I guess some of those speech bubbles in the first panel had to have been hers.

I feel that many of you want to give Bendis a free pass simply because you didn't like the Rebirth era.

I feel like this is true to a degree in some cases. But it could also be said that the Rebirth era may have had flaws that some were eager to overlook just because it was replacing the New 52 era that they disliked. Fans do not enter these things without bias. It is not possible.

That's hardly a valid reason to support further deconstruction of a character that DC has clearly mismanaged for almost two decades. The Rebirth era was the first time in over a decade there was a consistent vision for Superman and his world, yet that's now gone in favor of the vision of a man whose best work (at least as a writer of superheroes) is long behind him.

I wouldn't describe the Rebirth era as a consistent vision, or at least one that came about in a natural way. Blowing up one version of Superman and bringing in an older, married one from an alternate universe, but oh wait they were actually the same the whole time but now they are merged and everything is unified, except the alternate Earth Superman is the the really real Superman because the stuff for the other Superman is being ignored, and oh yeah Wonder Woman mentioned in passing that her romance with Superman wouldn't have worked out in the long run but now she couldn't have because they never dated in the first place, etc. is the dumbest way they could have gone about things. There are way less convoluted ways they could have gotten to the end goals of: costume switch, break up with Wonder Woman, married to Lois and a kid.

As in resistance to change. I feel that term describes a good portion of the Superman fanbase's problems. People that can't open themselves to ideas that conflict with the version of Superman they have in their heads. It doesn't matter if the idea, the intention and the execution is good, if it doesn't agree with the head-canon it is immidiately awful :P

I am definitely guilty of this in some cases, as is pretty much everyone else in comic book circles. The detractors of both the New 52 and Rebirth have this in common, they rejected these takes for the same reasons.

It also didn't when folks dared to criticize Nuperman.

They probably get heated because they get sick of him being called Superbro (this one is especially stupid) or Nuperman, or too alien and mean to ever be Superman, or not the traditional Superman, etc. Rebirth fans get just as defensive (and not without reason) about similar criticisms aimed at their version.

[king81992]

What about going off with Jor-El would address those concerns, though? How does Jon know that going with him is, in fact, the choice that makes that future possible? I ask mostly because I am not caught up on Super Sons and partly because I'm trying to understand where Jon is coming from. I get that he would be worried. What I don't get is why he thinks this is the answer.

In Super Sons, Future Jon went nuclear because of something Damian did to him(the writers never explained what Damian did though).

[Sacred Knight]

This could also be a window into Lois and Clark's issues. Superman understands this kind of stuff in a way Lois doesn't. To no fault of her own. She's part of this fantastical world but not always with a front row seat to it, at least as far as the cosmic goes. She doesn't regularly visit alternate realities for example. By comparison that's actually pretty normal for a guy like Superman, and over the past year has become all-too-common for Jon. He'll probably be able to relate more to how Jon's feeling (despite Clark's pep talk, I believe at some point we'll get confirmation that Clark does indeed get where his son is coming from). This will in fact probably be the big thing that ends up making him relent. Lois on the other hand would understandably struggle more with that.

[RepHope]

What about going off with Jor-El would address those concerns, though? How does Jon know that going with him is, in fact, the choice that makes that future possible? I ask mostly because I am not caught up on Super Sons and partly because I'm trying to understand where Jon is coming from. I get that he would be worried. What I don't get is why he thinks this is the answer.

I think he just feels trapped on a path that leads to millions of people dead. Perhaps he's hoping that with going Jor will help him learn something that will prevent that future. Or he's just feeling depressed and simply wants to get away from Earth for a while.

[Miles To Go]

Interesting. Wanna discuss that? Talking through your feeling on his words with someone else might give you the perspective of a different reading, and that in turn might alleviate your feeling

I don't know, I'm not sure if I can apply a proper depiction, just little bits here, and there, (saying a casual "hey" to Zarr is a bit weird given he's fresh off mourning Kandor) mind you, I don't know if my readings really amount to much as nothing came of my previous reading of a scene from issue 5 (when Clark looked annoyed at Jon deciding to leave, I thought that was him being conflicted and coming to the decision to let him go...nothing of that scene continues on here)

[Miles To Go]

This could also be a window into Lois and Clark's issues. Superman understands this kind of stuff in a way Lois doesn't. To no fault of her own. She's part of this fantastical world but not always with a front row seat to it, at least as far as the cosmic goes. She doesn't regularly visit alternate realities for example. By comparison that's actually pretty normal for a guy like Superman, and over the past year has become all-too-common for Jon. He'll probably be able to relate more to how Jon's feeling (despite Clark's pep talk, I believe at some point we'll get confirmation that Clark does indeed get where his son is coming from). This will in fact probably be the big thing that ends up making him relent. Lois on the other hand would understandably struggle more with that.

I can see, if Lois does stay with Clark, she may be coping with some depression. Perhaps the ending of MOS#6 sees Clark return to the apartment and finds Lois there completely lost within herself greiving Jon's loss. He can't check her in for therapy or anything because it'd open up questions as to where Jon is, so he's taking care of her himself.

[Superlad93]

What about going off with Jor-El would address those concerns, though? How does Jon know that going with him is, in fact, the choice that makes that future possible? I ask mostly because I am not caught up on Super Sons and partly because I'm trying to understand where Jon is coming from. I get that he would be worried. What I don't get is why he thinks this is the answer.

I think the main point comes from one of the first things Jor-El says to him is an acknowledgment that he's struggling. It's unprompted, and maybe more importantly it's in contrast to the fact that his parents don't see him as struggling anymore than anyone else in a round about way. To be fair to Lois and Clark, Jon hasn't outwardly expressed any of this to them, but I think that's also why Jor-El even hinting at it means so much that it clouds him a bit and has him grasping at just the chance. You know how meaningful it is when someone or something gets you without you having to articulate it or possibly even being fully aware of it, and that feeling is only amplified when you're a pre-teen, I feel. Feels like a lifeline in a sea you didn't even know you were in. That's my read on it anyway.

Any thoughts?

[Cmbmool]

That preview is fantastic. I can't fathom how anyone would claim this is mischaracterization. This is drawing directly upon Rebirth stories to realistically reflect upon a Jonathan who now has become confused about his place in the world. It completely makes sense that the stuff he has seen would lead to this. This is taking the silly overuse of the "Jon goes evil" insinuations and actually doing something visceral and meaningful with it. Yeah Clark is right that those are just different individual versions throughout the multiverse, but the kid has a point. Superman himself would be weirded out if he kept seeing alternate futures which led to versions of the Injustice persona, for example. It would be impossible for that to not affect you.

Why do I have a feeling that Jonathan will be important to Doomsday Clock if Geoff Johns had his hands on him. I mean there are somethings that not even Bendis could override, right ?

[Superlad93]

I don't know, I'm not sure if I can apply a proper depiction, just little bits here, and there, (saying a casual "hey" to Zarr is a bit weird given he's fresh off mourning Kandor) mind you, I don't know if my readings really amount to much as nothing came of my previous reading of a scene from issue 5 (when Clark looked annoyed at Jon deciding to leave, I thought that was him being conflicted and coming to the decision to let him go...nothing of that scene continues on here)

Don't apologize for how you as an individual interpreted a work of art. I may not agree, as another individual looking at said art, and since it's a story the author and artist may not have had that as their intent, but that doesn't invalidate what you saw at that moment. We discuss in order to find perspective beyond ourselves, and that may lead us to reread or come at a work of art with more tool understand it. Speaking from experience, discussion has helped me come to appreciate a more favorable interpretations of media that I dismissed at first, and sometimes it's only made me appreciate that other people like a thing I don't.

Like were you see a casual "hey" I read the exclamation point, and the fact that the "hey" is in a bobble by itself as being a moment of Clark speaking with some force/base in his voice. And since I've been reading Bendis' Superman, he's been coming off as someone who is more incline to understand a situation than charge into it 9 times out of 10. He's still playing the reporter/detective. Trying to understand Zaar and where he's from (he's been asking himself that for quite a while now).

Thoughts?

[Miles To Go]

Thoughts?

I speed read a lot, so I did'nt catch the subtle things like the exclamation point, well spotted, that does give him more of an authority in the voice.

[Superlad93]

I speed read a lot, so I did'nt catch the subtle things like the exclamation point, well spotted, that does give him more of an authority in the voice.

Nice! Glad my perspective could be of use to your enjoyment of a thing.

[misslane]

I don't think he does know. Its blind faith to a degree. He's shaken about his physiology, he's shaken about himself physiologically from the stuff he's seen, and I see it as a situation where this guy who happens to be his grandfather-- whom despite everything Jon surely knows from Clark's past stories (before the Oz stuff) is just off the charts intelligent and wise--is offering to help him learn about the galaxy and he's just hoping this tutelage and knowledge will help him in the future. There's certainly no proof that this guy holds all the answers. But its someone with some major pull in this universe offering a hand. Its something. At least that's how I'm looking at it.

I can appreciate that, and I recall something kind of similar happening a few times during Smallville's run, but with so many concerns and questions, taking a chance on this Jor-El of all people doesn't seem sensible. I don't think there's much out there in the universe that can teach someone about how to handle one's emotions or how to interact with human beings or society. To me, it looks like running away from one's problems instead of dealing with them.

This could also be a window into Lois and Clark's issues. Superman understands this kind of stuff in a way Lois doesn't. To no fault of her own. She's part of this fantastical world but not always with a front row seat to it, at least as far as the cosmic goes. She doesn't regularly visit alternate realities for example. By comparison that's actually pretty normal for a guy like Superman, and over the past year has become all-too-common for Jon. He'll probably be able to relate more to how Jon's feeling (despite Clark's pep talk, I believe at some point we'll get confirmation that Clark does indeed get where his son is coming from). This will in fact probably be the big thing that ends up making him relent. Lois on the other hand would understandably struggle more with that.

I don't get this. If Clark can understand, and he's gotten through it without doing what Jon is proposing, then I don't see how his advice would differ. If anything, it would make him emphasize just how important it was to have someone like Lois' help. Jon also has someone Clark didn't have: his father, Superman. Jon is also, unlike Clark, a CHILD.

I think he just feels trapped on a path that leads to millions of people dead. Perhaps he's hoping that with going Jor will help him learn something that will prevent that future. Or he's just feeling depressed and simply wants to get away from Earth for a while.

All understandable yet ultimately insufficient reasons to justify him leaving.

[misslane]

I think the main point comes from one of the first things Jor-El says to him is an acknowledgment that he's struggling. It's unprompted, and maybe more importantly it's in contrast to the fact that his parents don't see him as struggling anymore than anyone else in a round about way. To be fair to Lois and Clark, Jon hasn't outwardly expressed any of this to them, but I think that's also why Jor-El even hinting at it means so much that it clouds him a bit and has him grasping at just the chance. You know how meaningful it is when someone or something gets you without you having to articulate it or possibly even being fully aware of it, and that feeling is only amplified when you're a pre-teen, I feel. Feels like a lifeline in a sea you didn't even know you were in. That's my read on it anyway.

Any thoughts?

I would find it creepy more than reassuring. It reads as if Jor-El is spying on Jon and using his insight to manipulate him or even the one who orchestrated all of this so Jon would want to leave in the first place. I don't think I would feel pure validation; I'd feel wary too.

[Superlad93]

I don't get this. If Clark can understand, and he's gotten through it without doing what Jon is proposing, then I don't see how his advice would differ. If anything, it would make him emphasize just how important it was to have someone like Lois' help. Jon also has someone Clark didn't have: his father, Superman. Jon is also, unlike Clark, a CHILD.

I agree. I think Clark thinks he understands what Jon is going through because they share similar powers and the similarity of growing up with them, but that's all pretty superficial. There are contextual differences to Jon's life that Clark needs to start taking into account more.

I would find it creepy more than reassuring. It reads as if Jor-El is spying on Jon and using his insight to manipulate him or even the one who orchestrated all of this so Jon would want to leave in the first place. I don't think I would feel pure validation; I'd feel wary too.

I can appreciate that, for sure. From your vantage point you see the clear pitfalls in what seems to be Jon's logic, and for the record, so do I. But a character doesn't have to be right to be a character or to make a choice in a story (and I know you weren't arguing otherwise). This could end up as an awful mistake on Jon's part, but in the abstract sense, I can at least understand where he's coming from.

[rpmaluki]

I have been loving this mini except for a few things here and there. However, I must say there's simply no way Jor-El (a practical stranger at this point) is the better person to help Jon navigate through what he's going through now. I know they will try and sell it that way but I'm not buying it. Clark has no doubt been in Jon's shoes so he has a better grasp of the situation, the disadvantage that is played up is that he's approaching this as Jon's father and thus comes across as flippant to what's clearly troubling Jon, thus nullifying whatever help he could offer his son so Jor-El can step in. I have no issues with Jon going on a galaxy trip with his grandad (which has been decried as ooc by some) for the summer, but I'm not liking making Clark (and Lois) inept helping their son as he struggles, it doesn't help that Jor-El gives of malevolent vibe despite me wanting to believe he means well.

Whatever is about to happen with Jon (leaving with Jor-El) is not the answer.