Official : Bendis gets both books

[bigstupidjellyfish]

Fascinating to read about the real life mobster who got assigned to a newspaper, and how it influenced Goode as a character

And I quite like how he puts focus on general belief Lois and Clark are considered "fragile"....that's unfortunately because so many other iconic couples, from Marvel and DC, are made of glass and the word "marriage" is treated like a dirty word, so it's strange to them that something like Lois and Clark can endure as long as they have. I look forward to how Bendis demonstrates their love and commitment under his pen in future issues.

I like how he’s writing Clark and Lois and I like everything he’s said about them so far. Which isn’t surprising to me, because the only time I ever cared about Pete and MJ was when he wrote them in Ultimate Spider-Man (it’s legitimately the only part of Spencer’s Spider-Man that doesn’t work for me, I just don’t care).

In regards to comicbook marriages, I think only certain characters work as married. Ralph and Sue Dibny are the perfect example of a comicbook marriage (even more so than Clark and Lois), while Rogue and Gambit is complete and utter trash that disrespects both characters (but that’s just what you get when you put nostalgic fanservice ahead of good storytelling).

Anyways, I like that Bendis described Action as the flagship DCU book starring Clark Kent. Seeing everything connect to each other is the appeal of a shared universe, but it can sometimes be tough to make things work with other writers, so even if Bendis only connected things to the other stuff he’s writing, I’m happy. I’m excited to see what him and Sook are working on for next summer, if it’s LoSH related I, and probably everyone else on this board, will probably **** their pants, but, watch it’s Conner and Jon meeting.

[Superlad93]

Just to breakdown the interview and the new bits we've learned from it:

* Bendis clarifies that he thinks of Action Comics as a book about the DC Universe that stars Clark Kent, and the Superman book is about Clark/Superman himself. When he puts it like and points out that Clark doesn't actually have readable inner thoughts in Action like he does Superman it makes a TON of sense, and I feel dumb for not seeing it earlier.

* Superman as political football in the DCU. And also "people all feel differently about him [Superman] depending on where they are and what their goals are. And if they're not a fan of Superman, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad people. They may just want law and order in a different way. Having all of these different power brokers and political voices in the city debating Superman's actions was something I thought we needed at DC." That's a strong and nuanced take to it that cuts through the more popular two extremes of either everyone loving him unconditionally, or everyone looking at him like a time bomb in a red cape.

*Bendis has cast The Question as the a perfect counter to Lois Lane. And a lot of that is apparently in service to building to what's going to happen to Lois in the future. So, both Lois and Vic are, as Bendis describes it, are working independently on game changer stories in the background, and they will meet in the middle in the future. Dude....what if her book is a partnership with Vic? I'd imagine Rucka would physically have to write that book lol

* Action 1006 is where we learn who is in change of the Invisible Mafia.

* The Action Comics desk openers will continue and, in some cases, they'll also spoil what's gonna happen 2 years from now. It'll be fun to get them all together and draw the conclusions.

* In regards to Jon coming back Bendis says "my inspiration was how devastating it would be to lose those formative years. I mean, I hate it when my kids go to summer camp. They love it there, but they go away for a few weeks and I don't get to experience anything they experience. They come back and they look older! You have this experience when you drop your kid off for camp, and you pick them back up three weeks later, and they have a mustache. This is the superhero version of that." He also ominously hints that "Clark's going to have missed out on something really important to Jon, and it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt bad. Hurting Superman has to be a big deal." If one was gonna do this story any way, attacking it from this angle is I best, I feel. It sounds like it's supposed to have the emotional heft of something like Death In The family, Damian's Death, The Death Of The Human Torch, or even his own Death Of Spider-Man, but without the actual death and the emotions are a good deal more complex to navigate because the person you're upset over is still standing right there.

[Miles To Go]

In regards to comicbook marriages, I think only certain characters work as married. Ralph and Sue Dibny are the perfect example of a comicbook marriage (even more so than Clark and Lois), while Rogue and Gambit is complete and utter trash that disrespects both characters (but that’s just what you get when you put nostalgic fanservice ahead of good storytelling).

I know you don't care, but Peter and MJ also work very well as a married couple in certain mediums. Sometimes more so than their pre-OMD relationship. I became a huge fan of the newspaper strip in the post-OMD era for the way it was able to keep their marriage positive and compelling without making it as angsty and stressful as what their mainstream counterparts go through.

As for Rogue and Gambit...a little too early to tell here as they're in their honeymoon phase, but I enjoyed the story told to get them back to where they were. I never cared for them after their 1997 break-up.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Just to breakdown the interview and the new bits we've learned from it:

* Bendis clarifies that he thinks of Action Comics as a book about the DC Universe that stars Clark Kent, and the Superman book is about Clark/Superman himself. When he puts it like and points out that Clark doesn't actually have readable inner thoughts in Action like he does Superman it makes a TON of sense, and I feel dumb for not seeing it earlier.

* Superman as political football in the DCU. And also "people all feel differently about him [Superman] depending on where they are and what their goals are. And if they're not a fan of Superman, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad people. They may just want law and order in a different way. Having all of these different power brokers and political voices in the city debating Superman's actions was something I thought we needed at DC." That's a strong and nuanced take to it that cuts through the more popular two extremes of either everyone loving him unconditionally, or everyone looking at him like a time bomb in a red cape.

*Bendis has cast The Question as the a perfect counter to Lois Lane. And a lot of that is apparently in service to building to what's going to happen to Lois in the future. So, both Lois and Vic are, as Bendis describes it, are working independently on game changer stories in the background, and they will meet in the middle in the future. Dude....what if her book is a partnership with Vic? I'd imagine Rucka would physically have to write that book lol

* Action 1006 is where we learn who is in change of the Invisible Mafia.

* The Action Comics desk openers will continue and, in some cases, they'll also spoil what's gonna happen 2 years from now. It'll be fun to get them all together and draw the conclusions.

* In regards to Jon coming back Bendis says "my inspiration was how devastating it would be to lose those formative years. I mean, I hate it when my kids go to summer camp. They love it there, but they go away for a few weeks and I don't get to experience anything they experience. They come back and they look older! You have this experience when you drop your kid off for camp, and you pick them back up three weeks later, and they have a mustache. This is the superhero version of that." He also ominously hints that "Clark's going to have missed out on something really important to Jon, and it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt bad. Hurting Superman has to be a big deal." If one was gonna do this story any way, attacking it from this angle is I best, I feel. It sounds like it's supposed to have the emotional heft of something like Death In The family, Damian's Death, The Death Of The Human Torch, or even his own Death Of Spider-Man, but without the actual death and the emotions are a good deal more complex to navigate because the person you're upset over is still standing right there.

Either Bendis needs to reveal a better excuse for Lois to ditch her son in space, or he needs to have Clark stop letting her off the hook for her decision. Also how Clark didn’t put up enough of a fight to get them to stay in the first place. I still really hate this direction, having their son grow up without them is going to make Clark and Lois seem like complete failures as parents. Which would be fine if Superman was supposed to be an incompetent father like Goku, but that doesn’t suit him.

[Superlad93]

Either Bendis needs to reveal a better excuse for Lois to ditch her son in space, or he needs to have Clark stop letting her off the hook for her decision. Also how Clark didn’t put up enough of a fight to get them to stay in the first place. I still really hate this direction, having their son grow up without them is going to make Clark and Lois seem like complete failures as parents. Which would be fine if Superman was supposed to be an incompetent father like Goku, but that doesn’t suit him.

By this point it's a pretty well covered debate. I totally see, understand, and even sympathize with the mindset of those who aren't too hot on how that went down (this wasn't the only way Bendis could've gotten to this story, no), but I also wanna let those same people know that there's a different and equally valid takeaway out there. Incompetence in this case is pretty relative. Letting a 10 year old with super powers operate largely unsupervised with a former trained killer (Damian) is grossly negligent and dumb of any parent. Jon sneaks out and ends up seeing dead bodies on one mission, is taken to see an exploding planet on another (because he asked real nice), and gets trapped in another universe on another because he, again, left home when he wasn't supposed to, and the worst he's ever gotten is a mild talking to. But we give that all a free pass, and we should, because the reality is kicked way the hell up, so just because Batman says it's cool, Clark is totally down for his son hanging out and being influenced by a child that killed his first man before he could walk.

Anyways, like I said at the top, that's not to invalidate your feeling on the matter, it's just to provide some context to where the other side on this coin may be coming from.

[Yoda]

The argument that they are bad parents for letting him go off with Jor El really can't be made until we get Jor El's backstory filled in and the story of Lois's time with Jor El. Because what Lois experienced with Jor El apparently soothed any reservations she had in leaving Jon with him. And the circumstances of Jor El's role in their life pre-Man of Steel apparently were such that his appearance was more of an annoyance like a grandparent popping in can be. There's a story there as well that we likely won't learn until after Doomsday Clock concludes.

I'm more concerned with how they are going to address the age up with respect to Jon's civilian life. No one has asked Bendis that yet. And Jon's absence isn't an issue yet because I think they are still within whatever window his summer vacation was supposed to be.

[Superlad93]

I'm more concerned with how they are going to address the age up with respect to Jon's civilian life. No one has asked Bendis that yet. And Jon's absence isn't an issue yet because I think they are still within whatever window his summer vacation was supposed to be.

I think that's gonna be one of the ideal clashes between Jon and Clark/Lois. He may not be as concerned with it as they are especially given that his best and closest friends are either child assassins (Damian), kid ninjas (Nobody), and an alien (Kathy).

How they'll explain this to like say Perry (Jon's godfather (brought up again in Doomsday Clock)) will be interesting.

[Jared S]

By this point it's a pretty well covered debate. I totally see, understand, and even sympathize with the mindset of those who aren't too hot on how that went down (this wasn't the only way Bendis could've gotten to this story, no), but I also wanna let those same people know that there's a different and equally valid takeaway out there. Incompetence in this case is pretty relative. Letting a 10 year old with super powers operate largely unsupervised with a former trained killer (Damian) is grossly negligent and dumb of any parent. Jon sneaks out and ends up seeing dead bodies on one mission, is taken to see an exploding planet on another (because he asked real nice), and gets trapped in another universe on another because he, again, left home when he wasn't supposed to, and the worst he's ever gotten is a mild talking to. But we give that all a free pass, and we should, because the reality is kicked way the hell up, so just because Batman says it's cool, Clark is totally down for his son hanging out and being influenced by a child that killed his first man before he could walk.

Anyways, like I said at the top, that's not to invalidate your feeling on the matter, it's just to provide some context to where the other side on this coin may be coming from.

I'm of two minds about the move. I hold that, if Superman has any flaws as parent (and I feel it reasonable to expect him to have *some* flaws), I would expect them to be polar opposite of Batman's flaws as a parent. Rather than strict, overbearing, and emotionally detached, I would expect him to be too lax, lenient, and perhaps too involved emotionally to make wise choices. In a sense, I would expect him too be so willing to compromise for the sake of avoiding conflict that he occasionally neglects, or nearly neglects, his role as authority figure. I feel him being willing let Jon go where he wants, rather than giving him what he needs, would be an easy mistake for him.

That being said, the pathway chosen by Bendis was too jarring, to the point where I was genuinely speculating for a while that somehow Jor El had used some sort of mind-influencing device to manipulate Clark and Lois. If it had been someone they truly were familiar with, rather than Jor El, who has clearly demonstrated himself to be unstable and untrustworthy in his current iteration, it might have been pulled off.


I feel it unfair to pull Damian's past into this as a counterexample of "bad parenting" that fans ignore. It's pretty clear that, emotionally, Damien is very different from the boy he used to be, particularly when he is around Jon, and Superman knows this. Also, it would be rather hypocritical of Superman to preach redemption for even the most heinous evildoers and yet still hold a grudge against... a 13-year old, who had no choice about how he was raised and actively rejected his past lifestyle at the expense of his maternal relationship. What more, precisely, would he need to do before Superman is willing to trust him (or at least give him a chance to prove himself trustworthy)?

In addition, having crazy unsafe adventures that young children should not be having is already part of the ethos of superhero tales, and has been since Robin first existed. Anyone reading superhero comics has already implicitly accepted that they will not let this unrealistic scenario break their suspension of disbelief.

In contrast, leaving one's child with what is essentially an active "super-villain" goes strongly against the grain of superhero comics. Thus, I conclude that the latter parenting mistake, at least for comics, comes across as much more incompetent than the former.

[That being said, Bendis may very well wish to show that Clark has failings as a parent. We will see shortly.]

[Yoda]

How they'll explain this to like say Perry (Jon's godfather (brought up again in Doomsday Clock)) will be interesting.

That's what I meant. I mean it can be hand waived away so to speak, they live in a fantastic world and even with the secret identities protected are adjacent to enough craziness that unnatural aging could be something that happened to "normal" Jon that they just have to deal with. But at the same time, Bendis clearly intends to keep Clark's secret identity intact and assuming he's not keeping Lois away from the Planet forever, it's something that will have to be addressed if this change is going to stick.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

That's what I meant. I mean it can be hand waived away so to speak, they live in a fantastic world and even with the secret identities protected are adjacent to enough craziness that unnatural aging could be something that happened to "normal" Jon that they just have to deal with. But at the same time, Bendis clearly intends to keep Clark's secret identity intact and assuming he's not keeping Lois away from the Planet forever, it's something that will have to be addressed if this change is going to stick.

Back when Damian was dead, Bruce made the public think he shipped him off to boarding school overseas. Clark can reach out to Bruce, and have him pull the same strings. Problem would be hiding it from Sam Lane.

[HeroVladimir93]

I want to keep an open mind to Bendis' ideas for the Superman comic books but for now, the story seems to be in its setup phase. At least Superman gives the impression of moving things forward, as seen with Rogol Zaar's invasion and General Zod's involvement; but the story in Action Comics seems to moving a bit too slowly for my tastes.

[bigstupidjellyfish]

I know you don't care, but Peter and MJ also work very well as a married couple in certain mediums. Sometimes more so than their pre-OMD relationship. I became a huge fan of the newspaper strip in the post-OMD era for the way it was able to keep their marriage positive and compelling without making it as angsty and stressful as what their mainstream counterparts go through.

As for Rogue and Gambit...a little too early to tell here as they're in their honeymoon phase, but I enjoyed the story told to get them back to where they were. I never cared for them after their 1997 break-up.

1) I don’t think the comicbooks are one of the mediums where they work as a married couple.

2) I will concede that the initial miniseries was a well done comic, but the current ongoing is making me doubt whether or not Kelly Thompson is actually good.

But, I digress as this is getting too off topic.

I want to keep an open mind to Bendis' ideas for the Superman comic books but for now, the story seems to be in its setup phase. At least Superman gives the impression of moving things forward, as seen with Rogol Zaar's invasion and General Zod's involvement; but the story in Action Comics seems to moving a bit too slowly for my tastes.

Maybe that’s because Superman is a big, bombastic, and action packed (fun fact: I typed “action” and my phone autocorrected to make it capitalized and suggested comics as the next word, god I love predictive text) but Action Comics is a slow burn mystery? Maybe Action will read better in trades for you.

[Superlad93]

That's what I meant. I mean it can be hand waived away so to speak, they live in a fantastic world and even with the secret identities protected are adjacent to enough craziness that unnatural aging could be something that happened to "normal" Jon that they just have to deal with. But at the same time, Bendis clearly intends to keep Clark's secret identity intact and assuming he's not keeping Lois away from the Planet forever, it's something that will have to be addressed if this change is going to stick.

What about a kid Jon Kent robot? Superman is known for his Superman robots, the new Fortress is dying to be explored once we get a breather, and Bendis did say they were a strange family that made their own rules, and this fits the bill.

This and 2 other things are what I'd very much love to be right about during this run because I think it'd be really fun haha

[manwhohaseverything]

If this aging up thing is permanent then. what do you guys think is going to happen to supersons book? Is it going to be just cancelled after the filler mini? Do you guys think anything of the old direction of Jon is going to stick?
I thought they were going to bring it back.

Man, what a waste. I can't believe I got invested in a character that I knew was not going to last, But that is on me. I started reading the books for superman should have stuck with it.

[Yoda]

If this aging up thing is permanent then. what do you guys think is going to happen to supersons book? Is it going to be just cancelled after the filler mini? Do you guys think anything of the old direction of Jon is going to stick?
I thought they were going to bring it back.

Man, what a waste. I can't believe I got invested in a character that I knew was not going to last, But that is on me. I started reading the books for superman should have stuck with it.

I spoke to someone from DC at a con over the summer about it and they told me Jon was going to be aged up to about 17, but that there there is definitely a possibility of more Adventures of the Super Sons books that are not tethered to the present continuity if this maxi-series proves successful.

There's also the DC Zoom imprint versions that are just starting as well. That format, while not popular with comic book fans since most of us are old, is a killer format with tween and young teen crowd. I think WB's realizes that they have a good gateway drug in Jon and Damian, so their adventures will continue even if Bendis keeps his older Jon.

Back when Damian was dead, Bruce made the public think he shipped him off to boarding school overseas. Clark can reach out to Bruce, and have him pull the same strings. Problem would be hiding it from Sam Lane.

That'd be one way to do it. I could see that being a temporary solution. That or they had to send him away due to whatever is going to go down with Levithan. Apparently both Clark and Lois are going undercover for that.

What about a kid Jon Kent robot? Superman is known for his Superman robots, the new Fortress is dying to be explored once we get a breather, and Bendis did say they were a strange family that made their own rules, and this fits the bill.

This and 2 other things are what I'd very much love to be right about during this run because I think it'd be really fun haha

That would be a pretty great sci-fi take on it. Though I still think it's still possible that they decide to reveal that Jon's real father is Superman and Clark has been functioning as his stepfather all these years. It may take a more delicate hand than Bendis to make that work without making Lois or Clark look bad in the process, but it could actually be done and tie back into the adoption narrative.