Official : Bendis gets both books

[manwhohaseverything]

But you don't know any of that and what we do know seems to contradict that. Jon had his mom initially and apparently was doing fantastic. Jor El likely was a competent caregiver or Lois wouldn't have left Jon with him. I mean, you literally can't say that any of that is true.

I could say the reverse. A guy who starts a war on a whim. does not give me any opportunity to give jor el any point. He has been so far antogonistic in literally every way. He shown as a cold, pragmatic individual with lots of issues and trauma.
As of now, Sam Lane feels more warm than jor el.that is saying something. Sam is supposed to be a military . He actually treated him like a kid. Hung out with him. Even had a dinner with the estranged daughter for the sake of her and her family. And they don't agree, ideologically similar to jor and kal. Meanwhile, jor el treats kal el like a boy. He was being condescending prick to him. Sam actually treated Lois as an individual. Any of this does not seem like good care giver.
And bendis himself said Jon returns because "grandpa is crazy". So how am I supposed to take that.

[Superlad93]

Unless Bendis wants to actively trivialize war

Okay, yeah, but we're still talking about the same universe where the same kid had a front row seat to a planetary mass suicide....that his father took him to knowing full well that there was a very, very good chance of his 10 year old seeing a whole world go up in flames within super spitting distance, right? I don't care how awesome Clark is at making sandwiches and talking it out; that was pretty freakin nuts. Yet he was good after that story, and no one talked about how wildly irresponsible it was for Clark to even take him along (without telling Lois may I add).

So, it's kind of a toss up what sort of "war" this was and how crazy realistic they wanna go. We at the very least know that his time in space will 100% effect him on some level beyond the physical, so at least we know it won't be sandbagged liked watching-a-whole-freakin-planet-die was.

[Yoda]

I could say the reverse. A guy who starts a war on a whim. does not give me any opportunity to give jor el any point. He has been so far antogonistic in literally every way. He shown as a cold, pragmatic individual with lots of issues and trauma.

That was Jor El by way of Dr. Manhattan if you're talking about Oz Effect. And the solicits don't say Jor El started a war, only that he and Jon fight in one if you're talking about the upcoming story.

As of now, Sam Lane feels more warm than jor el.that is saying something. Sam is supposed to be a military . He actually treated him like a kid. Hung out with him. Even had a dinner with the estranged daughter for the sake of her and her family. And they don't agree, ideologically similar to jor and kal. Meanwhile, jor el treats kal el like a boy. He was being condescending prick to him. Sam actually treated Lois as an individual. Any of this does not seem like good care giver.
And bendis himself said Jon returns because "grandpa is crazy". So how am I supposed to take that.

So you think Lois returned because she thought Jor El was a crazy asshole and just left Jon? Or is it more likely that whatever occurred out there at least gave her some peace of mind that Jor El has or had Jon's best interests in mind and was responsible enough to care for him. We know things eventually will go sideways, but at least initially the more likely scenario is that Jon and Jor El were doing pretty well together and Jon could handle this on his own.

[Superlad93]

Or is it more likely that whatever occurred out there at least gave her some peace of mind that Jor El has or had Jon's best interests in mind and was responsible enough to care for him. We know things eventually will go sideways, but at least initially the more likely scenario is that Jon and Jor El were doing pretty well together and Jon could handle this on his own.

O what it must be like to go into these books without the cryptic solicitations, cryptic interviews, cryptic social media teases, unfinished advanced previews, and the message board fan theories coloring thoughts and warping imagination.

I mean, we "know" things eventually go sideways because of all the aforementioned supplementary stuff, and we have that information with almost zero context. Like, just imagine the average Joe or Jane right now reading Superman. To the people who just came into Bendis with no supplementary stuff like interviews or even solicits, they don't even know the trip turned bad, "grandpa is crazy," or that there was anything even remotely close to a large scale conflict of any kind.

Isn't that nuts given what we've all been arguing over for months now lol

[Yoda]

O what it must be like to go into these books without the cryptic solicitations, cryptic interviews, cryptic social media teases, unfinished advanced previews, and the message board fan theories coloring thoughts and warping imagination.

I mean, we "know" things eventually go sideways because of all the aforementioned supplementary stuff, and we have that information with almost zero context. Like, just imagine the average Joe or Jane right now reading Superman. To the people who just came into Bendis with no supplementary stuff like interviews or even solicits, they don't even know the trip turned bad, "grandpa is crazy," or that there was anything even remotely close to a large scale conflict of any kind.

Isn't that nuts given what we've all been arguing over for months now lol

Ignorance is definitely bliss. I used to barely read solicits and not follow any of this stuff here or on twitter. I think I was enjoying books a lot more back then.

[manwhohaseverything]

That was Jor El by way of Dr. Manhattan.



So you think Lois returned because she thought Jor El was a crazy asshole and just left Jon? Or is it more likely that whatever occurred out there at least gave her some peace of mind that Jor El has or had Jon's best interests in mind and was responsible enough to care for him. We know things eventually will go sideways, but at least initially the more likely scenario is that Jon and Jor El were doing pretty well together and Jon could handle this on his own.

I mean, no good mother would leave a child who is having an abnormal growth with anyone else(sometimes even there fathers let alone a stranger) . Mother would refuse to leave there child to make sure they are OK. Even rational arguments would not matter to them. Lois in tomasi and jurgens run was momma bear and no where close to this characterisation .the first arc had Clark and Lois be blow a gaskette when Jon got a cut. Now she does not seem to care.

Here, I don't know what Bendis was thinking. When he decided to write this. Jor El can be christ or Buddha himself. it won't be enough for Lois to leave her child who might be sick, or worse even be terminally ill. She says Jon is blooming then left him, there in space. No amount of reasoning will be enough for me to empathise with this lois.sorry, that is just the way it is. That is on Lois not on Jor el.

Jor el might have proven himself trustworthy. That would only lead to Lois staying with them and accepting him. Not leaving her kid with him. Under no circumstance would lois leave her kid who is under this predicament regardless of Jon's competence level. I cannot see "my lois" do this. My lois would fight. even if she is in way over her head,in space . She has done it in the past in space as well. She fought gods and demons. She would do it again.

[Yoda]

I mean, no good mother would leave a child who is having an abnormal growth with anyone else(sometimes even there fathers let alone a stranger) . Mother would refuse to leave there child to make sure they are OK. Even rational arguments would not matter to them. Lois in tomasi and jurgens run was momma bear and no where close to this characterisation .the first arc had Clark and Lois be blow a gaskette when Jon got a cut. Now she does not seem to care.
Here, I don't know what Bendis was thinking. When he decided to write this. Jor El can be christ or Buddha himself, it won't be enough for Lois to leave her child who might be sick, or worse even be terminally ill. She says Jon is blooming then left him, there in space. No amount of reasoning will be enough for me to empathise with this lois.sorry, that is just the way it is. That is on Lois not on Jor el.
Jor el might have proven himself trustworthy. That would only lead to Lois staying with them and accepting him. Not leaving her kid with him. Under no circumstance would lois leave her kid who is under this predicament regardless of Jon's competence level. I cannot see "my lois" do this. My lois would fight. even if she is in way over her head,in space . She has done it in the past in space as well. She fought gods and demons. She would do it again.

There's no indication it was abnormal growth at all or that he's doing anything abnormal. That was a theory that people made up to explain his apparent age jump. Apparently his looks older because for him time has actually passed. He's not sick or ill. She says he came alive and seemed to be coming into his own in space. The whole bicycle analogy is pretty explicit. She got to the point where she felt he was able to do this himself. And he had a growth spurt right before he left. I mean, that's normal stuff.

From what she's said she left feeling like she was holding them back and actually making things more dangerous for them. I agree that is a weird way to characterize it, and I'm not sure how that's going to play out. But I don't think it's likely she gives up because Jon was in danger. More likely whatever she was doing out there or her presence as a baseline human was making things more dangerous for them. Removing herself from that situation and letting them go on there own apparently seemed like the better thing for him.

[Superlad93]

Ignorance is definitely bliss. I used to barely read solicits and not follow any of this stuff here or on twitter. I think I was enjoying books a lot more back then.

I keep saying I'm gonna go back to that, but It's like the got damn Matrix. Once you know, you can't un-know.

Like, I wanna say in this very post that I'm thinking of cutting back, but I damn well I'm livin for that preview for issue 7 and the solicits this month. I have problem lol

[manwhohaseverything]

There's no indication it was abnormal growth at all or that he's doing anything abnormal. That was a theory that people made up to explain his apparent age jump. Apparently his looks older because for him time has actually passed. He's not sick or ill. She says he came alive and seemed to be coming into his own in space. The whole bicycle analogy is pretty explicit. She got to the point where she felt he was able to do this himself. And he had a growth spurt right before he left. I mean, that's normal stuff.

From what she's said she left feeling like she was holding them back and actually making things more dangerous for them. I agree that is a weird way to characterize it, and I'm not sure how that's going to play out. But I don't think it's likely she gives up because Jon was in danger. More likely whatever she was doing out there or her presence as a baseline human was making things more dangerous for them. Removing herself from that situation and letting them go on there own apparently seemed like the better thing for him.

If it is just space and relativity of time kicking in. Why hasn't lor zod aged yet? He is in space too. And a kid same age as Jon.

there is no precidence to Jon himself or his growth. Basically, they were in uncharted waters.They don't really know what is going to happen to him. Jor El was surprised that Jon is even a possibility . Lois would not leave her baby boy, no matter how competent her son is or has become in uncharted waters to fend for himself alone or even with jor el. For god sake, this her kid we are talking about not some distant relative who has a family that can take care of him. This casual approach won't be any where near her mind Knowing that her son's life and health is in danger.

She married superman knowing she can't keep up with him. Knowing that she will only get in his way sometimes.she is not leaving him.if that is the argument then, That is bad characterisation. Uphill battles are what lois is all about. The whole Clois relationship is built on it. If she is not willing to leave her husband,then she will not leave her little baby boy.

[Sam]

However, Jon's main purpose is to advance and impact Clark's narrative. He's co-starred in a book yes, but he's not an independent IP. Not yet, and maybe not ever. He's part of Clark's supporting cast so his main reason for existence is to serve Clark's story. I can't fault Bendis for doing this because it's what Jon is made for. I'm just not at all sure about *how* Bendis is using him. But I'm willing to give the man the benefit of the doubt for now and see how it unfolds.

Very much disagree. Regardless of whether you look at Jon as a supporting character of Clark's or an independent protagonist in his own right, ideally no major (both lead and supporting) character should exist just to serve the story of another character. They should have their own purpose and journeys that make sense within the context of their characters, no one else's. Otherwise, there is no point them. If Bendis killed off Lois, you wouldn't say, "Well, it's fine, because her purpose is to advance Clark's story." If advancing a different character's development is the only reason a writer is giving a character a certain role, then that's crappy development.

[TheRev72]

The Bendis Superman books are failures. Everything everyone was warning about came true (decompression, bad dialogue, etc.). If DC must keep him on Superman titles, keep him on Action Comics only where he can write his "street-level" Daredevil stories with Superman instead.

But at least give us ONE non-Bendis Superman book. Ideally, DC could put Venditti on Superman. He's shown his worth on big, cosmic stories with the Hal Jordan & the GLC book and now Hawkman. He'd be great. And we wouldn't have Bendis monopolizing the character.

[Sacred Knight]

They're very much not failures. You're projecting your personal dislike into an objective statement that isn't true.

[TheRev72]

They're very much not failures. You're projecting your personal dislike into an objective statement that isn't true.

Okay so they're failures insofar as they are creatively sub-par. The decompression is astonishingly egregious. Characters are written out-of-character to degree that's incredibly disconcerting. There's a complete disregard for the goodwill garnered by the last creative teams. Oh, and the stories themselves have been boring. Rogol Zaar is an uninteresting villain who's taken up 12 issues now. And the 6 issues of Red Cloud resulted in the villain... running away?

This is a flagship character. It needs a writer on at least one of the books that can honor the characters and write interesting stories that go somewhere at an acceptable pace. That's not too much to ask.

[Sacred Knight]

Just being bored and not enjoying the story I respect. I don't share the opinion but I respect it. But I just can't get on board with cries of out of character action and disregarding the past teams. Virtually no one has been written out of character, (the only example I can think of was Lois in #1004 and that's it), and the entire run is based off the platform put in place by the past creative teams. He continued right where they left off. Did he move in a different direction? Yes. But that's more than fair play. That's not disregarding what came before. This happens all the time from run to run. Its only a problem when you go the old Wonder Woman route where each run is almost like a reboot because everything previous is ignored. That's not what Bendis did. This is less an example to me of wanting Tomasi and Jurgen's stuff respected as it is wanting some sort of special treatment for them.

[Yoda]

If it is just space and relativity of time kicking in. Why hasn't lor zod aged yet? He is in space too. And a kid same age as Jon.

there is no precidence to Jon himself or his growth. Basically, they were in uncharted waters.They don't really know what is going to happen to him. Jor El was surprised that Jon is even a possibility . Lois would not leave her baby boy, no matter how competent her son is or has become in uncharted waters to fend for himself alone or even with jor el. For god sake, this her kid we are talking about not some distant relative who has a family that can take care of him. This casual approach won't be any where near her mind Knowing that her son's life and health is in danger.

The cover for Superman #7 says “missing years” and the solicitation for #9 has Jon and Joe El being throwin into another dimension accidentally. A reasonable guess based on the available evidence is that time moves differently where they were. Relatively is likely out because Lois isn’t years older. That we know of at least. There’s no evidence that Jon aged rapidly or physically had any weird reactions or had any weird growth. Again, that was pure speculation from people based only on a way that Jon could age. It now appears that that is not the case.

And there’s no indication that he’s sick, fragile, etc. Or that Lois has anything to worry about in that regard. The initial weirdness of his powers from the Rebirth run was Manchester Black suppressing them. From what Lois describes to Clark, Jon sounds like he’s coming into his own as a person. That is the bike metaphor. She guided him to the point where he was able to guide himself.

Jor El was surprised Lois could carry Jon. Not that he was an abnormal or one of a kind.

And he’s not a baby boy. He was around 11 or 12. Young sure by conventional standards. But they leave him to fight crime on his own all the time. He has a level of autonomy that’s completely out of synch with your average 11 year old. Most 11 year olds don’t get to fight super villains with a 13 year old.

he married superman knowing she can't keep up with him. Knowing that she will only get in his way sometimes.she is not leaving him.if that is the argument then, That is bad characterisation. Uphill battles are what lois is all about. The whole Clois relationship is built on it. If she is not willing to leave her husband,then she will not leave her little baby boy.

Exactly she knows likely from years with Clark that there are going to be situations where her presence isn’t going to be ideal and may actually be a detriment. She isn’t going along on Justice League missions or patrolling with him. She does get herself into trouble pretty regularly but it’s not like she goes picking fights with Doomsday or Darkseid.