Official : Bendis gets both books

[Yoda]

I like the idea of the Lois ongoing have the team dynamic between Lois and Sam...and it could lead to a globe-trotting arc that takes her out of the Superman "circle" for as long as it takes for the year of the villain to go.

I think this is a definite possibility that he's going to play a major role in her book. Not that I think Rucka will repeat himself, but Batwoman had a similar dynamic with her father.

Maybe antagonist is the right word if we use it in the classic sense where it just means in knowing or unknowing opposition to the protagonist's goals. In that sense she's an antagonist in the same way that Silver age Lois was to Clark/Superman. The would regularly use words like "thwart" when describing how Superman alluded having his identity found out to make it clear that, at least in that specific context, Lois was Clark's antagonist. But we didn't know Lois as an antagonist the whole time, right? It was just in that specific context because we were in-the-know. That allowed her to perfectly sympathetic, likable, and heroic in her own right outside of the context of her goals that put her in opposition to our hero. Rounding this Silver age comparison out, if this turns out to be true then we'll also get the ol' "logical explanation" from our hero(es) to satisfy our curious reporter. However, since this isn't the Silver age, and things don't just reset, the Kents deal with the implications of their choice.

Based on what we've seen so far and what he's said about how he wants to use the spirit of old Silver age imaginary stories, I think Bendis is working along these lines in terms of how he's approaching Trish.

See, now that you've put it this way it makes me think maybe Lois and Clark will lean into the affair angle and Trish ends up suspecting they are lying. Puts Trish in the Silver Age Lois role of constantly trying to prove Lois and Clark aren't estranged and maybe even that Clark is Superman.

I'm hoping for largely that, whatever she's got cooking with the Question, and more on her book. As I've said before, I think the book and the more flexible format for the marriage were gifts to Ruka from Bendis. I mean, I'm sure you remember how often Bendis has evoked Ruka's name when talking about Lois in interviews. He even famously said that Ruka sat by his bedside talking Superman stuff while he was sick. I'm at the point where I fully believe Ruka signed off on all of Bendis Lois stuff knowing he'd be coming in eventually for a Lois book that's been heavily hinted at since Bendis was signed.

I long suspected Rucka played a role in guiding Bendis' interpretation of Lois or at least served as a sounding board. But now that we know Rucka is going to be writing her solo book, something Bendis has had on his radar since day one, I agree that Rucka likely played a role in crafting Lois' storyline and the new status quo. I've said this before, but Rucka played around with the idea that everyone thinks Lois is Superman's girlfriend back in his original run. So yeah, it would not surprise me at all if Rucka and Bendis broke down Lois' arc and the marriage status quo together.

[Superlad93]

See, now that you've put it this way it makes me think maybe Lois and Clark will lean into the affair angle and Trish ends up suspecting they are lying. Puts Trish in the Silver Age Lois role of constantly trying to prove Lois and Clark aren't estranged and maybe even that Clark is Superman.

But I don't think the story would have to go there to have her continue on as some sort of sustainable antagonist in this sense. In reality, if she's the one that breaks the story to begin with, then Bendis could play it as her trying to chase that same high again after a bit especially if this propels her to some form of fame.

If she's famous enough, then she could work just off of a personal blog whenever Perry stonewalls her. I think she ends up even possibly fabricating something because of the pressure. Makes her sort of Clark's gossip JJJ while keeping her somewhat sympathetic or at least relatable in a basic sense.

[Celgress]

I think the sales slippage (after a very strong start) is because of how stale Superman is in general. I feel the only way to reverse the downward trend long-term is to try a radical new direction. Naturally few companies want to take big chances with established properties but I think that is what Superman desperately needs; think the Batman shift towards darker stories during the 1980s' or Supergirl's recent live-action popularity. I once thought the return of the Lois Marriage alongside other elements of the previous status quo was the answer now I see my yearning for nostalgia blinded me.

[Yoda]

I mean, didn't they just try that? Worked for a while and sales were right back down to a lower than this.

The book is still one of DC's best selling monthlies. So why exactly should they blow everything back up again?

This is just the way direct market books sell now. Making Superman dark like Batman isn't going to work. The relationship status change doesn't work long term. It's like any other status quo change. Bump and then receed.

[DragonPiece]

I wonder who he could be talking about. Probably the Batman Who Laughs. Fits with the Multiverse component to this and he was shown to be a manipulator in Metal. I have a hard time believing that he'd be able to "turn" any heroes against Batman and Superman. Maybe Psycho Pirate or even Bane expanding their roles.

Yeah, I can't think of anyone else besides batman who laughs. Plus the initial press release about year of the villains mentioned a new untitled batman who laughs series being part of the event. I feel like the mystery with wally west will wrap up in heroes in crisis.

I do wonder if levithan, snyder's justice league event and tom king's bane event will tie into each other, because you'd think they would all be separate events, but DC seems to be tying them all together with that flash epilogue.

[Celgress]

I mean, didn't they just try that? Worked for a while and sales were right back down to a lower than this.

The book is still one of DC's best selling monthlies. So why exactly should they blow everything back up again?

This is just the way direct market books sell now. Making Superman dark like Batman isn't going to work. The relationship status change doesn't work long term. It's like any other status quo change. Bump and then receed.

I'm not saying they should necessarily make Superman dark. What I am saying is Superman has long been eclipsed by other superheroes like Batman and Spider-Man in terms of popularity so perhaps a radical new direction is in order to revitalize the character and his world. I'd start with a game-changing storyline in which Lex Luthor hits an emotionally devastating, character-defining blow to Superman he never truly recovers from then go from there: i.e. the Killing Joke or Kraven's Last Hunt. Maybe Perry White or Jimmy Olsen sacrifices himself to save a weakened Superman from Luthor?

[Miles To Go]

I once thought the return of the Lois Marriage alongside other elements of the previous status quo was the answer now I see my yearning for nostalgia blinded me.

The marriage isn't the problem.

I'm not saying they should necessarily make Superman dark. What I am saying is Superman has long been eclipsed by other superheroes like Batman and Spider-Man in terms of popularity so perhaps a radical new direction is in order to revitalize the character and his world. I'd start with a game-changing storyline in which Lex Luthor hits an emotionally devastating, character-defining blow to Superman he never truly recovers from then go from there: i.e. the Killing Joke or Kraven's Last Hunt

Killing Joke is a poor example, at least now, as Babs eventually did recover anyway. Kraven's Last Hunt means very little also due to Kraven being back, it only has any significance in alternate realities where Kraven stayed dead, like MC2, and Peter did eventually overcome his experiences in KLH (read "Soul of the Hunter")

Throwing in dark crap like that should not define the character for any length of time...and you know Perry and Jimmy's deaths wouldn't stick at all and we'd be right back to where we started in a few years. Darkness is not a remedy for anything.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think the sales slippage (after a very strong start) is because of how stale Superman is in general. I feel the only way to reverse the downward trend long-term is to try a radical new direction. Naturally few companies want to take big chances with established properties but I think that is what Superman desperately needs; think the Batman shift towards darker stories during the 1980s' or Supergirl's recent live-action popularity. I once thought the return of the Lois Marriage alongside other elements of the previous status quo was the answer now I see my yearning for nostalgia blinded me.

The rate of sale slippage is what we should worry about. It took 20 or so issues of both supertitles to reach this current level of sales. Whereas now it has only been 8 or so issues.
I appreciate a kid like character's perspective on "Superman" whether it is jimmy or Jon. I personally like my hero academia. So i think they had the right idea with Super-Family. I also believe reputation of superman the brand is very low right now. Unlike batman or spiderman who has had decent to great other media outings constantly through out the years to create a much more loyal casual fans. I personally think an animated series for superfamily or supersons would have increased brand value of superman.
I don't believe another creative direction change again this soon is good for superman brand. Even though i want jon to be a kid again as soon as possible after bendis is done. Since, his changes seem pretty superficial and not great.

[jason white reborn]

The rate of sale slippage is what we should worry about. It took 20 or so issues of both supertitles to reach this current level of sales. Whereas now it has only been 8 or so issues.
I appreciate a kid like character's perspective on "Superman" whether it is jimmy or Jon. I personally like my hero academia. So i think they had the right idea with Super-Family. I also believe reputation of superman the brand is very low right now. Unlike batman or spiderman who has had decent to great other media outings constantly through out the years to create a much more loyal casual fans. I personally think an animated series for superfamily or supersons would have increased brand value of superman.
I don't believe another creative direction change again this soon is good for superman brand. Even though i want jon to be a kid again as soon as possible after bendis is done. Since, his changes seem pretty superficial and not great.

His changes are hardly superficial and are great in a sense that his real goal(**** jon kent character so that he can get less screentime long after he is gone) is working perfectly so far. He has pretty much destroyed jon kent so in his mind he pretty much succeeded

[DragonPiece]

His changes are hardly superficial and are great in a sense that his real goal(**** jon kent character so that he can get less screentime long after he is gone) is working perfectly so far. He has pretty much destroyed jon kent so in his mind he pretty much succeeded

Me and you must have very different ideas of character assassination. Bendis has constantly said Jon will still have a big role so you are just making up facts to go along with your false narrative as well. And If by destroying Jon, you mean Bendis keeping his optimistic personality even after years of tough battles in space and dealing with a lot of trauma without his parents and showing just how much the Kents have raised Jon to be a good person, then sure, Bendis did destroy Jon.

[Miles To Go]

His changes are hardly superficial and are great in a sense that his real goal(**** jon kent character so that he can get less screentime long after he is gone) is working perfectly so far. He has pretty much destroyed jon kent so in his mind he pretty much succeeded

You are so certain you know what's going on in Bendis' head, sadly a lot of dwellers on /co/ think the exact same thing and most of the time they're entirely off-base. Bendis has always been very upfront about what he intends to do with characters to fans. He didn't have to tell us he was aging up Jon, but he did, he didn't have to tell us Clark and Lois would'nt break up after saying we should be "worried" about their relationship, but he did. If he says he has plans to make Jon a big deal in the books, I believe him. Jon's been through a lot, but so far he still has the same outlook on life. Sure he's damaged, but not on the inside.

A part of me still thinks his main goal is to eventually have Jon become the Superman of his era eventually in the same manner Riri became the vocal point of Iron Man and Miles the vocal point of Ultimate Spider-Man.

[Yoda]

I think Bendis was told to take a look at the family dynamic from Rebirth and given the option to revise it without breaking them up or killing Jon off. The goal I've long thought was to make them all more independent to free up they types of stories they can tell and get the characters back to more iconic roles and away from the Rockwellian nuclear family stories of Rebirth. So things might change but I believe him that the family will evolve and stay the loving family we have known for three years. Hoping it even grows to include Sam, Conner, and others as well.

So we have a Superman that's operating solo again, Clark that is a bit of a messl, the brunt of jokes, and a beat reporter, Lois that's more independent and doing her own thing a bit, but still in love and in a relationship with Superman, and Jon who can now be used both more in stories since he's older and less if they want to tell more traditional Superman stories.

And like Miles says, Bendis has been extremely forthcoming with what he intends to do. So I take him at his word that the story is ab9ut father's and sons, he's got a big story to tell with Jon, Jon is central to his plans, and he's not breaking them all up.

[Ascended]

I'm not saying they should necessarily make Superman dark. What I am saying is Superman has long been eclipsed by other superheroes like Batman and Spider-Man in terms of popularity so perhaps a radical new direction is in order to revitalize the character and his world. I'd start with a game-changing storyline in which Lex Luthor hits an emotionally devastating, character-defining blow to Superman he never truly recovers from then go from there: i.e. the Killing Joke or Kraven's Last Hunt. Maybe Perry White or Jimmy Olsen sacrifices himself to save a weakened Superman from Luthor?

I think the problem is one of brand trust. For a very long time Superman books have been of questionable quality, with big shock value changes thrown in that radically shift the narrative. Why get invested when twenty years of history show us that any quality the books have will be short lived, and the status quo a reader enjoys will be changed within a few years, or at the least, disrupted by cheap gimmicks?

The solution is, I suspect, actually simple; long-term quality and world building. Any big change to the status quo is just going to be seen as another stunt and drive readers away while reinforcing the notion that you can't trust DC to just tell entertaining stories without breaking their own toys.

Superman is still one of the best selling IP's in the DC stable, so it's not like he's in a "bad" position. He's just not at the top of the charts like he used to be. But after decades of mismanagement that's not surprising, and its going to take time before DC can earn the reader's trust back and show those who aren't reading the books that they're worth the price tag.

The lack of good larger media adaptations certainly dont help. It's hard to get new readers, or prove to existing comic fans who aren't reading the books, that Superman is still cool as hell when nothing outside of the comics is proving it. But there's nothing the publishing end can do about that and WB/DC still don't really understand the character, so good adaptations are going to be few and far between until that changes.

[Superfamily]

I think the problem is one of brand trust. For a very long time Superman books have been of questionable quality, with big shock value changes thrown in that radically shift the narrative. Why get invested when twenty years of history show us that any quality the books have will be short lived, and the status quo a reader enjoys will be changed within a few years, or at the least, disrupted by cheap gimmicks?

The solution is, I suspect, actually simple; long-term quality and world building. Any big change to the status quo is just going to be seen as another stunt and drive readers away while reinforcing the notion that you can't trust DC to just tell entertaining stories without breaking their own toys.

Superman is still one of the best selling IP's in the DC stable, so it's not like he's in a "bad" position. He's just not at the top of the charts like he used to be. But after decades of mismanagement that's not surprising, and its going to take time before DC can earn the reader's trust back and show those who aren't reading the books that they're worth the price tag.

The lack of good larger media adaptations certainly dont help. It's hard to get new readers, or prove to existing comic fans who aren't reading the books, that Superman is still cool as hell when nothing outside of the comics is proving it. But there's nothing the publishing end can do about that and WB/DC still don't really understand the character, so good adaptations are going to be few and far between until that changes.

I agree with you ..................



superman needs good stories, needs to develop all the characters, Lois, Jon, Parry, Jimmy, All support cast need to be well written to be explored when needed ,writers need to look at them ... Enough!!! superman dont need reboot again...... ...Jon Kent is there, son of a powerful alien with a human woman, this about jon kent would give many great stories, involving several groups mainly the government . .. don't put the guilt in marriage or support cast, because this is not true ... the true is .. Dc doesn't know what to do with superman

[manwhohaseverything]

I think Bendis was told to take a look at the family dynamic from Rebirth and given the option to revise it without breaking them up or killing Jon off. The goal I've long thought was to make them all more independent to free up they types of stories they can tell and get the characters back to more iconic roles and away from the Rockwellian nuclear family stories of Rebirth. So things might change but I believe him that the family will evolve and stay the loving family we have known for three years. Hoping it even grows to include Sam, Conner, and others as well.

So we have a Superman that's operating solo again, Clark that is a bit of a messl, the brunt of jokes, and a beat reporter, Lois that's more independent and doing her own thing a bit, but still in love and in a relationship with Superman, and Jon who can now be used both more in stories since he's older and less if they want to tell more traditional Superman stories.

And like Miles says, Bendis has been extremely forthcoming with what he intends to do. So I take him at his word that the story is ab9ut father's and sons, he's got a big story to tell with Jon, Jon is central to his plans, and he's not breaking them all up.

I am more worried that the focus will be entirely on the father. The son will be just a one note character and plot device. His jon is like rogal zarr generic as they come.
He said a lot of things like how was not going reboot the family. And how he is going to continue from where tomasi and jurgens have left of. For jon, he hasn't entirely honest. Jurgens was forshadowing and setting up lor zod - jon kent rivalry. That seems to have been left underwater. Tomasi was building up a cast for jon which is also being flushed and kathy was really cool character.

If you are stripping support cast, rivalry... Etc of the character. His history is being ignored, then. The character is essentially a reboot. For people saying jon is just support cast, him being developed is not that important. Well you are wrong it does matter to people that like jon. And well jurgens himself has said he considers jon and lois to be more than superman supporting cast.

All this is done to make him generic. So i wouldn't be surprised he would be used as a plot device for Clark to punch some rocks and be tossed aside after. The only other book jon seems to be in is ending. Might not return. I could see them using him like a glorified cameo and discard/erase him afterwards. Which is a waste.

Kids depend on fathers and admire them largely. Teens largely avoid parents like a plague and think they are embarrassing. Jon could be an exception, but still won't be the same. Kids have a sense of awe towards their parents. Teens don't. Just look at this:



Do you honestly believe we can create a sense of wonder and awe from teen jon?for me i don't think so.
Superman being a dad and showing the ropes was cool. Jon is close to an adult now. Clark showing the ropes to jon now will not have the same feeling or meaning. Hey! Atleast in mangas i can have naruto and sasuke being dads.

Frankly, they should not have done the superdad and jon concept in the first place. If Jon was going to reinvented too soon without an effort, thought, need, reason and later on to be left in editorial oblivion. They should have just had new52 clark just get together with new52 lois. Diana could have broken up with clark like in the animated movies. Creation of jon was stupid if they weren't willing to stick with it and the character.If they wanted Clark to punch something and be rough around the edges. New52 guy was the perfect setting. Why jump through the hoops for superdad?

I don't care for shipping/relationship nonsense. I like jon because it didn't have those things. Now i am stuck with a jon that is old enough for that ****. I would prefer kid jon with goofy adventures with his pals. With some progression and a lot of heart. That is if he is given panel time. And superman to be the cool, laid back, over protective dad.

Unless there is something significant, different, cool and important that is happening with character. This change is nothing but a waste. It wouldn't matter what bendis says. And How he has tried to play it safe by keeping his personality, only to make him feel generic. The character has been soft rebooted.

Clark(the disguise) is one of the reasons i like the character. It being just used as a prop to get shitted on. So that almighty superman can have a great life is not something i would look forward to.