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  1. #5611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I don't see any real difference between the content of the maxi-series or the regular one. It's the same type of stories, and Tomasi could very easily incorporate as much character development he wanted to to build to where Bendis took Jon. Hell, Bendis set him up with a pretty good end point for Jon to reach with the growing and unexpressed concern about living up to his dad and getting rejected by the Titans. That's something that easily could have been explored with Jon alone without impacting Superman because the point was Clark and Lois didn't see this in Jon.
    Bendis aged up jon which destroyed that character development. So close but no cigar

    Chris Kented away

  2. #5612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I don't see any real difference between the content of the maxi-series or the regular one. It's the same type of stories, and Tomasi could very easily incorporate as much character development he wanted to to build to where Bendis took Jon. Hell, Bendis set him up with a pretty good end point for Jon to reach with the growing and unexpressed concern about living up to his dad and getting rejected by the Titans. That's something that easily could have been explored with Jon alone without impacting Superman because the point was Clark and Lois didn't see this in Jon.
    Except that idea is serving Bendis's story, not Tomasi's. It's not where Tomasi wants to take the character, it's where Bendis has already taken the character. That illustrates my point that Tomasi is handcuffed with this new series. He can't guide and shape Jon's development anymore. And that makes a huge difference.

    The original Super Sons series was a lot of fun, but the characters definitely weren't just spinning their wheels. They're friendship and relationship was growing and Jon's powers were developing. I want more of that series.
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  3. #5613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Except that idea is serving Bendis's story, not Tomasi's. It's not where Tomasi wants to take the character, it's where Bendis has already taken the character. That illustrates my point that Tomasi is handcuffed with this new series. He can't guide and shape Jon's development anymore. And that makes a huge difference.

    The original Super Sons series was a lot of fun, but the characters definitely weren't just spinning their wheels. They're friendship and relationship was growing and Jon's powers were developing. I want more of that series.
    That is the foundational reason why no writer is gonna bring back super sons as long as Jon is aged up

    He is redundant, cannot grow, and his powers are fully developed. He has known jor-El longer than he has ever known Damian

  4. #5614
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason white reborn View Post
    Thank you, I love the fact that the defenders of age up Jon are able to so easily shit on tomasi and Jurgen to prop bendis up as some kind of savior.

    I guess people really wanted that Lois lane and Jimmy comic...which is being held hostage by bendis to keep his shitty creative decisions
    You are hysterical. You need to reign it in buddy. Jon isn’t going anywhere. If you think he’s “irrevocably ruined” you haven’t been reading comics long.

  5. #5615
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Except that idea is serving Bendis's story, not Tomasi's. It's not where Tomasi wants to take the character, it's where Bendis has already taken the character. That illustrates my point that Tomasi is handcuffed with this new series. He can't guide and shape Jon's development anymore. And that makes a huge difference.

    The original Super Sons series was a lot of fun, but the characters definitely weren't just spinning their wheels. They're friendship and relationship was growing and Jon's powers were developing. I want more of that series.
    That's kinda the deal in a shared universe though and they all work within the constraints of editorial and others plans all the time. It's not his character so he never would have had free reign to develop Jon as he wanted. Even then, Bendis built off what Tomasi had done with the Titans crossover. So maybe he had a endpoint set for him but it was built off his own stories and ideas for Jon. If he just gave up and decided to do filler instead, that's one thing, but he could have easily been building to Man of Steel #1 for 12 issues with plenty of character development to support that and still told the same stories within their friendship.

    I also have a hard time accepting that if the friendship and interaction with Damian was the main draw, that it has been destroyed by Jon's age up. It flips the age difference but you can still maintain the same interplay with the characters.

  6. #5616
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    But why does it have to be a trade off? It generally sucks that we miss out on seeing seven years of Jon's life and that the Super Sons dynamic which had not been fully explored is over. Yet, we haven't really gained anything from Jon being aged up. Jon being 10 doesn't prevent Wonder Comics from happening, or Lois and Jimmy from getting their own books. It doesn't even prevent Clark and Jon from going on a cosmic road trip to stop Jor-El or whatever. It is completely needless other than giving Superman angst.
    That's literally the story Bendis is trying to tell, and we're only three issues in so it's early to be saying nothing happened. It's still unfolding.

  7. #5617
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    What price comes with that expansion though? Lois gets an ongoing, but does that mean interacting less with Clark and not giving Superman fans more of what they want from the most iconic couple in comics?
    We know nothing but the creative team so I'm not going to jump in assuming that they're going to split. Lois didn't have a book in Rebirth (okay, one issue) and she was a big part of Clark's life. Let's wait on details before we get so up in arms.

    That said, I don't want the book to be about their relationship. That would be a Lois and Clark book (which I would support, mind). I want to read about her adventures that sometimes have Superman in them. Don't make him the albatross around her neck. He's her husband, not her keeper. I think a good mix is possible. Am I excited? Yeah. It's not without trepidation, but again we don't know enough to be outraged or overjoyed, and by my primary concern was Bendis writing because he hasn't nailed her voice, but I'm more confident with Rucka. We'll see

    Again, going on record to say I love Lois and Clark being married and having a kid and I have not loved everything Bendis has done thus far, but the problems I have are genuinely the point of the story, not incidental in themselves. If he doesn't stick the landing and makes a mess, sure, I'll be frustrated.

    I don't like Snyder's Man of Steel but I waited until the credits to determine that for good. Nothing Bendis has done has come across mean spirited, he has a lot of enthusiasm for the book and he's not being a dick to fans. Dan Slott this isn't.
    Last edited by Robanker; 03-04-2019 at 11:51 AM.

  8. #5618
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Jon has shown up in Young Justice. When a character starts showing up in media outside comics that pretty much guarantees their continued existence. As long as Jon exists he can be “fixed”. Bendis went out of his way to say that the O5 X-Men could not go back to their original time. But you know what? When Marvel wanted them to go back they went back, Bendis be damned. Jon will most likely be reverted after Bendis’ run is done. Bendis is most likely going to be next up on Batman after King. King has about 1.5 years on Batman left. So in 1.5 years I expect to see Jon reverted to normal.

  9. #5619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I don't like Snyder's Man of Steel but I waited until the credits to determine that for good. Nothing Bendis has done has come across mean spirited, he has a lot of enthusiasm for the book and he's not being a dick to fans. Dan Slott this isn't.
    I come across as a routine flip flopper on Bendis because I've been in situations where I've enjoyed his work (Alias, USM, Superman, Action, first half of Iron Man) and outright hated it (Avengers, X-Men, Civil War II, Riri as Iron Man, Guardians) but this I agree with, Bendis is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet, and sometimes he will course correct his books on minor things occasionally.

  10. #5620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armor of God View Post
    Pretty sure we lost Superwoman, New Super-man and Super Sons when Bendis came over.
    Superwoman was doomed as soon as Superman Reborn happened, as it destroyed her origin. New Super-Man was kind of affected by that too but more successfully dealt with it. Both though, were cancelled for low sales before Bendis arrived. Supergirl was later cancelled too for the same reason, but Bendis's arrival got that book uncancelled with a new status quo.

  11. #5621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    That's kinda the deal in a shared universe though and they all work within the constraints of editorial and others plans all the time. It's not his character so he never would have had free reign to develop Jon as he wanted. Even then, Bendis built off what Tomasi had done with the Titans crossover. So maybe he had a endpoint set for him but it was built off his own stories and ideas for Jon. If he just gave up and decided to do filler instead, that's one thing, but he could have easily been building to Man of Steel #1 for 12 issues with plenty of character development to support that and still told the same stories within their friendship.

    I also have a hard time accepting that if the friendship and interaction with Damian was the main draw, that it has been destroyed by Jon's age up. It flips the age difference but you can still maintain the same interplay with the characters.
    Dude, I know it's a shared universe. I know Tomasi doesn't have ownership over Jon. That doesn't mean I have to be okay with it when the character is taken out of his hands and messed with. None of that delegitimizes my frustrations about this turn of events. While Tomasi may never have had free reign to develop Jon's character, he definitely had more reign over him then he does now that Bendis is doing whatever he wants. Building to Man of Steel is not the grand and exciting story arc you making it out to be. Especially since Man of Steel set Jon on a course that a lot of people don't like. That's not what I want in a Super Sons title, and I'm pretty confident many would a agree with me on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    That's literally the story Bendis is trying to tell, and we're only three issues in so it's early to be saying nothing happened. It's still unfolding.
    A story about Superman's angst is not what I want to see decide Jon's direction and age. That's lame. Unless the end result is Jon becoming 10 again, I've seen enough. I'm allowed to judge. If Bendis surprises me down the road, I'll be open and honest about that. But for now, I'm frustrated with the Superman title, and I don't think that is an unfair thing to feeling.
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  12. #5622
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    I've often thought the current series sort of undermines Man of Steel a bit by showing Jon already had a massive big deep space adventure, and we know it didn't change him. Imagine if Lois had been with him and Damien on THIS trip

  13. #5623
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    I don't think of what they did with Lois and Clark marriage as the concept for a modern marriage!! It was just away of destroying their marriage without saying they did!! Marriage mean sharing every part of your life, part of that is living in the house!! Living in a hotel room away from your husband and seeing your husband just to have booty call is not a marriage! They have make their marriage into a joke!!

  14. #5624
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    I don't think of what they did with Lois and Clark marriage as the concept for a modern marriage!! It was just away of destroying their marriage without saying they did!! Marriage mean sharing every part of your life, part of that is living in the house!! Living in a hotel room away from your husband and seeing your husband just to have booty call is not a marriage! They have make their marriage into a joke!!
    (Assuming Yoda is wrong about the setting), Lois is living with Clark again by the time Doomsday Clock rolls around, so their marriage isn't all down to a booty call.

  15. #5625
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    I don't think of what they did with Lois and Clark marriage as the concept for a modern marriage!! It was just away of destroying their marriage without saying they did!! Marriage mean sharing every part of your life, part of that is living in the house!! Living in a hotel room away from your husband and seeing your husband just to have booty call is not a marriage! They have make their marriage into a joke!!
    There is still more to the story, Lois isn't going to live in the hotel forever. She's just there because she was working on a huge story and couldn't be distracted right now.

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