Official : Bendis gets both books

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

And he keeps claiming that this story is meant to showcase what excellent parents Lois and Clark are. No, they aren’t. Maybe they were before he took over the reins. I can kinda suspend my disbelief about letting him adventure with Damian. But if Jon Kent came out of his ordeal a good well adjusted person. Then it is not because of his loving parents, it’s in spite of the two morons who abandoned their child with an unhinged terrorist in outer space.

[bigstupidjellyfish]

I think Johns is the one who will end up taking on LoSH. He and Bendis are friends right? Also JSA is apparently going to show up in JL based on an interview Snyder had with AIPT Podcast so I expect the former off limits teams to start making a comeback.

I don’t know if I want Johns writing the Legion again. Maybe it’s time for a new take, while Johns would just continue the Retroboot.

Also, unrelated to Bendis and Superman, but Tomasi for JSA.

[Sam]

He also says explicitly that if people want young Jon stories they can get that in Super Sons, but also that you’re going to get Jon and Damian together again in this new configuration.

He knows it’s not super popular. I mean how often does any creator acknowledge half the people reading hate an idea. He’s apparently sticking with it though because he feels they have good tales to tell.

Yeah, having Super Sons would be great if Tomasi didn't just announce he's not on Super Sons after Adventures wraps up. Unless a new writer comes in that means no more 10-year old Jon outside of the Zoom line.

And personally, I would wager it is a more than half the people who hate this change.

[Sacred Knight]

Split down the middle seems pretty accurate. You go to one comminuity most hate it, you go to another there's lots of praise. It looks like the epitome of a mixed reaction. Its certainly not a Ric Grayson situation where its hard to find any positive remarks anywhere.

[Yoda]

I wonder if the endgame for Leviathan Bendis and DC have in mind is that ARGUS basically takes on all of those other agencies roles to become the SHIELD organization for DC with Waller as its Nick Fury? I think that would be cool honestly. Plastic Man is an odd choice, is he a detective? I thought he was just a petty crook turned hero. Cool to see Bendis using Trevor though, I prefer Trevor’s ties to ARGUS being used.

There's a little bit more on Event Leviathan here:

http://www.tripwiremagazine.co.uk/he...han-exclusive/

And I found it interesting that he says someone has built something dangerous in place of all the organizations that they took out. Taking that in with the fact that there were no bodies in the rubble of the DEO in Action 1009, the note told Superman they want the same thing, and they let Sam Lane live, maybe Leviathan isn't a full on villainous organization? Stretch maybe, they are part of "The Year of the Villian" afterall, but maybe they are trying to consolidate all these different SO's into a more centrally controlled, more brutal and gray, group? Like a counter-org to the United Planets?

I think Johns is the one who will end up taking on LoSH. He and Bendis are friends right? Also JSA is apparently going to show up in JL based on an interview Snyder had with AIPT Podcast so I expect the former off limits teams to start making a comeback.

I'm betting Legion is the project Bendis has with Ryan Sook. That would be the "biggest" thing he's ever done in the sense of scope of characters. He's never really worked on a team book like that before, because there really isn't any other team book with the scope of Legion.

[Sam]

Split down the middle seems pretty accurate. You go to one comminuity most hate it, you go to another there's lots of praise. It looks like the epitome of a mixed reaction. Its certainly not a Ric Grayson situation where its hard to find any positive remarks anywhere.

I have yet to encounter a community where the Jon age up has had a mostly positive reaction. Where are you thinking of. I know there are people who are supportive here, but those people do not seem like a majority.

[Sacred Knight]

Just off the top of my head, Twitter is pretty pro-Bendis Superman, including the Jon change. Or at the very least a lot of Jon fans who are willing to give the change a shot. Then you go to a big place like reddit of which the majority seem to dislike it. Here seems split. So it definitely varies.

[rpmaluki]

I have yet to encounter a community where the Jon age up has had a mostly positive reaction. Where are you thinking of. I know there are people who are supportive here, but those people do not seem like a majority.

Bear in mind you can't use message boards as an accurate measure of whether people like aged up jon or not. Now if you look at the sales for the two books, Superman is faring better than AC and that is the only book that features old Jon at the moment. It may not be accurate either but it's the better quantifiable data we've got compared to boards that at the very least shows that the views of the fandom aren't so skewed heavily towards hating this new Jon.

[Jackalope89]

Bear in mind you can't use message boards as an accurate measure of whether people like aged up jon or not. Now if you look at the sales for the two books, Superman is faring better than AC and that is the only book that features old Jon at the moment. It may not be accurate either but it's the better quantifiable data we've got compared to boards that at the very least shows that the views of the fandom aren't so skewed heavily towards hating this new Jon.

The lower sales for Bendis' run compared to the same place from the Rebirth run would speak to a drastic opposition to the new direction as a whole. What's more, many of those that have said they would give this Jon a chance, were those that either were neutral towards him, or didn't care about him at all before. A view point which has been shared on this message board as well. Or, those that plain just don't care about Jon as a whole and focused solely on "Superman sounding more Superman than he had in some time".

Meanwhile, aside from Bendis' twitter account, the vast majority have been heavily opposed to the aging up of Jon on about every level. Here, comic vine, twitter accounts not belonging to Bendis, youtube, etc.

[Sam]

Just off the top of my head, Twitter is pretty pro-Bendis Superman, including the Jon change. Or at the very least a lot of Jon fans who are willing to give the change a shot. Then you go to a big place like reddit of which the majority seem to dislike it. Here seems split. So it definitely varies.

Twitter is definitely not pro-Jon change. Bendis's twitter feed might be a little more positive, but people are who like what he is doing are more likely to post there. Check out the thread for the pic of young Jon Scott Snyder put up. Scores and scores of comments wishing young Jon would come back and, like, one guy going why is everyone so down on the change.

Here, same thing. There are quite a few positive voices, but a lot of that is cause the people who are fans are more likely to be engaging in the conversation in the issue discussion. But go to the Jon appreciation thread or find a poll someone created about whether Jon should be deaged and the story is very different.

I think Bendis is more likely to hear praise than negativity. So if he's figuring 50/50, the proportion of negativity is actually much higher.

Bear in mind you can't use message boards as an accurate measure of whether people like aged up jon or not. Now if you look at the sales for the two books, Superman is faring better than AC and that is the only book that features old Jon at the moment. It may not be accurate either but it's the better quantifiable data we've got compared to boards that at the very least shows that the views of the fandom aren't so skewed heavily towards hating this new Jon.

A. There are plenty of people who will buy a Superman comic just because it is Superman, and I'm guessing Superman almost always does better than Action Comics.
B. Sales have been down compared to Rebirth at the same stage of life, which heavily featured young Jon Kent, so if you want to look at quantifiable data (all of which could easily be explained by other factors as well) you have to consider that as well.

[rpmaluki]

Twitter is definitely not pro-Jon change. Bendis's twitter feed might be a little more positive, but people are who like what he is doing are more likely to post there. Check out the thread for the pic of young Jon Scott Snyder put up. Scores and scores of comments wishing young Jon would come back and, like, one guy going why is everyone so down on the change.

Here, same thing. There are quite a few positive voices, but a lot of that is cause the people who are fans are more likely to be engaging in the conversation in the issue discussion. But go to the Jon appreciation thread or find a poll someone created about whether Jon should be deaged and the story is very different.

I think Bendis is more likely to hear praise than negativity. So if he's figuring 50/50, the proportion of negativity is actually much higher.



A. There are plenty of people who will buy a Superman comic just because it is Superman, and I'm guessing Superman almost always does better than Action Comics.
B. Sales have been down compared to Rebirth at the same stage of life, which heavily featured young Jon Kent, so if you want to look at quantifiable data (all of which could easily be explained by other factors as well) you have to consider that as well.

I did say even sales aren't truly accurate and I'm not comparing Rebirth to Bendis. I'm talking Bendis vs Bendis. A book that has old Jon is still selling better than a book that doesn't have a Jon at all.

I'm one of the people that doesn't like that Jon was aged up but I'm still riding this train because I want to see where it goes. It's not as simple as just having two groups of people who only love this new Jon vs those who absolutely hate him. There's shades of grey between that black and white train of thought.

[Sam]

I'm one of the people that doesn't like that Jon was aged up but I'm still riding this train because I want to see where it goes. It's not as simple as just having two groups of people who only love this new Jon vs those who absolutely hate him. There's shades of grey between that black and white train of thought.

But this right here is exactly why you can't take sales into account.

My two favorite Superheroes are The Flash and Green Arrow (Superboy with rebirth rose to a close third). I'll read their solos no matter how bad they get, because I want to see what happens in every era with those characters.

Just because someone is buying the book, that doesn't mean they are happy with the change. They may just always buy Superman, they might like the Clark aspects, if not the Jon aspects, or they may want to see what happens with Jon even if they hate it. You can't use sales to make pronouncements like that.

And again, comparing Superman sales and Action comics sales is meaningless if Superman always outsells Action. That could be all that's happening.

[Sacred Knight]

Twitter is definitely not pro-Jon change. Bendis's twitter feed might be a little more positive, but people are who like what he is doing are more likely to post there. Check out the thread for the pic of young Jon Scott Snyder put up. Scores and scores of comments wishing young Jon would come back and, like, one guy going why is everyone so down on the change.

Here, same thing. There are quite a few positive voices, but a lot of that is cause the people who are fans are more likely to be engaging in the conversation in the issue discussion. But go to the Jon appreciation thread or find a poll someone created about whether Jon should be deaged and the story is very different.

I think Bendis is more likely to hear praise than negativity. So if he's figuring 50/50, the proportion of negativity is actually much higher.



A. There are plenty of people who will buy a Superman comic just because it is Superman, and I'm guessing Superman almost always does better than Action Comics.
B. Sales have been down compared to Rebirth at the same stage of life, which heavily featured young Jon Kent, so if you want to look at quantifiable data (all of which could easily be explained by other factors as well) you have to consider that as well.

I look at more than Bendis' Twitter feed. There's a lot of people who like it. Bendis himself? Sure you're probably right, he is more likely to hear the praise than negativity. That's human nature. Just like you're more likely to look for the negativity than the praise. But its there. And sure there's people who want Jon back to 10 there as well, I never said there wasn't. I just said there's lots of praise too, which is what you asked, a place where there was.

And I don't put any stock into the "hate-read" argument. That most people just buy to buy. That's the last resort argument to try and spin things when sales don't reflect something someone's arguing. And they don't have to reflect your negative opinion nor anyone else's. An opinion that doesn't necessarily reflect sales is still valid. I couldn't stand most of Rebirth but it would have been a fool's errand to try and and argue that my opinion actually reflected in sales. It so didn't. There's little negative sales reflection here either, and that can be okay, I'm not saying its not. But in general the reality is that when a general direction is highly frowned upon, it will reflect to some degree in the numbers. That's the whole reason why the "magic reset button" is a thing that has been utilized before. You can tell if the bottom drops.

[rpmaluki]

But this right here is exactly why you can't take sales into account.

My two favorite Superheroes are The Flash and Green Arrow (Superboy with rebirth rose to a close third). I'll read their solos no matter how bad they get, because I want to see what happens in every era with those characters.

Just because someone is buying the book, that doesn't mean they are happy with the change. They may just always buy Superman, they might like the Clark aspects, if not the Jon aspects, or they may want to see what happens with Jon even if they hate it. You can't use sales to make pronouncements like that.

And again, comparing Superman sales and Action comics sales is meaningless if Superman always outsells Action. That could be all that's happening.

It's still better than relying on unquantified social media chatter to say majority hates this new Jon. While you may buy a book you hate, others choose not to and having read some of the most ardent commentary against this version of a character, I can't imagine every hater opting to by the book with this Jon vs the one without him.

[Sam]

I look at more than Bendis' Twitter feed. There's a lot of people who like it. Bendis himself? Sure you're probably right, he is more likely to hear the praise than negativity. That's human nature. Just like you're more likely to look for the negativity than the praise. But its there. And sure there's people who want Jon back to 10 there as well, I never said there wasn't. I just said there's lots of praise too, which is what you asked, a place where there was.

And I don't put any stock into the "hate-read" argument. That most people just buy to buy. That's the last resort argument to try and spin things when sales don't reflect something someone's arguing. And they don't have to reflect your negative opinion nor anyone else's. An opinion that doesn't necessarily reflect sales is still valid. I couldn't stand most of Rebirth but it would have been a fool's errand to try and and argue that my opinion actually reflected in sales. It so didn't. There's little negative sales reflection here either, and that can be okay, I'm not saying its not. But in general the reality is that when a general direction is highly frowned upon, it will reflect to some degree in the numbers. That's the whole reason why the "magic reset button" is a thing that has been utilized before. You can tell if the bottom drops.

Now, hold on. I never said hate-reading. Hate-reading is something entirely different. What I’m talking about is people who make not like the general direction or hate a certain twist, but because they like or love these characters keep reading anyway. Because you want to know what happens to them. Entirely different thing. Hate reading would be reading because you enjoy hating on it.

And no, I pretty aware of both negative and positive reaction to Jon’s age up. I honestly haven’t seen much on Twitter, but not because I haven’t been looking for the positive. I have. I’ve seen it. I’ve just seen way more negative.

It's still better than relying on unquantified social media chatter to say majority hates this new Jon. While you may buy a book you hate, others choose not to and having read some of the most ardent commentary against this version of a character, I can't imagine every hater opting to by the book with this Jon vs the one without him.

Again, I wasn’t talking about hate-reading. It’s about wanting to follow the characters you lov even when unhappy with the direction.

Regardless, the Action vs. Superman comparison still doesn’t work because that assume the choice is either/or in the scenario you put forward. Someone who won’t read Superman because of Jon isn’t going to necessarily pick up Action Comics. And again, if Superman generally sells more than Action than it will probably continue to do regardless of reader satisfaction with each.