Official : Bendis gets both books

[Sacred Knight]

Its still the same concept, its still buying something for reasons other than actually liking and wanting that particular product. In the end I just used the name just because it has a name, but in general all I mean is the concept of buying a book out of some sort of habit/obligation when you don't really like what's going on. Break that up into whatever individual titles one wants, there's still no basis for the assumption and using it to cast doubt on the actual numbers. As when something is really disliked, it does generally reflect. Superman is not that character anymore where it just doesn't matter the content. The only one who's in that stratosphere for DC, where the volume is just so large its hard to tell, is Batman.

[Sam]

Its still the same concept, its still buying something for reasons other than actually liking and wanting that particular product. In the end I just used the name just because it has a name, but in general all I mean is the concept of buying a book out of some sort of habit/obligation when you don't really like what's going on. Break that up into whatever individual titles one wants, there's still no basis for the assumption and using it to cast doubt on the actual numbers. As when something is really disliked, it does generally reflect. Superman is not that character anymore where it just doesn't matter the content. The only one who's in that stratosphere for DC, where the volume is just so large its hard to tell, is Batman.

You said you didn’t like The Rebirth era. How much of that did you read?

And no, sales are not necessarily a reflection of fan response. And even if they were Rebirth was selling better than Bendis’s run at this point. Are you willing to say the Rebirth era Superman was more popular direction than the Bendis one?

[Sacred Knight]

I gave Action a chance and dropped it right away. I gave it a try again after Reborn, and thought it was better without the alternate Superdad angle so stayed on. Superman, I read sporadically off and on, as I thought the quality was there despite not liking the status quo. After Black Dawn then I dropped it as the quality dropped like a stone for me. In both cases, when I was on there was enough elements I enjoyed to offset what I didn't. In neither case did I buy just to buy. In both cases I gave the titles a try becuase it was Superman, despite hating the direction. Giving things a chance just because its Superman despite potential reservations is as far as I go. But I won't just keep going if I hate it. I always keep up via internet summaries and the like regardless though, my love of the character is definitely enough for that when it basically costs nothing.

And no, sales are not necessarily a reflection of fan response. And even if they were Rebirth was selling better than Bendis’s run at this point. Are you willing to say the Rebirth era Superman was more popular direction than the Bendis one?

Its by far the best metric we have, like rpmaluki says. I'd argue the only true metric. People who are upset are more loud, its how people are. Its far and away less reliable. And yes I know Rebirth was selling better than Bendis's run at this point. Its not that significant a gap, but yeah, I'd see that and say that Rebirth was slightly better received by readers. I have no trouble admitting that even though I personally like what Bendis is doing far more than anything Tomasi/Jurgens ever did in that era. What I won't admit though is that its to the degree where its some sort of no-brainer that things have to go back and that this direction does not have the right to keep going as of now. That far is very much not supported by the numbers. Anyway, I wasn't comparing the two runs, I was comparing how things fared within his run to the point new Jon showed up. Things are still within the range of how its been doing the whole time.

[Yoda]

Sales isolated from the overall market state are also not a good indicator. Nor is comparing Bendis' restart to something line wide and a complete revamp like Rebirth. New 52 is a better comparison because at the same point out from New 52's relaunch (about 2 years 8 month), both Superman and Action comics were selling in the mid-30K's and were out of the top 50 comics. Comparatively, Superman was #21 and Action was #29 last month on the sales charts and selling about 50k and 45k respectively. This is in a comic market where the top 10 has books in the 60K range, something that was not the case 4 or 5 years ago.

Bendis has likely kept the Superman books from sinking back to the low 30's. That likely would have necessitated some kind of revamp or direction shift as we've seen hints of from a few people.

When it comes down to it, the niche fans that migrate towards these boards or twitter, don't move sales all that much. I say that as a ride or die Lois Lane fan. But I realize that my niche is my niche. Same with the diehard Jon fans, SMWW and CLois shippers. The preference for those aspects don't drive sales one way or the other meaningfully.

[Sam]

I gave Action a chance and dropped it right away. I gave it a try again after Reborn, and thought it was better without the alternate Superdad angle so stayed on. Superman, I read sporadically off and on, as I thought the quality was there despite not liking the status quo. After Black Dawn then I dropped it as the quality dropped like a stone for me. In both cases, when I was on there was enough elements I enjoyed to offset what I didn't. In neither case did I buy just to buy. In both cases I gave the titles a try becuase it was Superman, despite hating the direction. Giving things a chance just because its Superman despite potential reservations is as far as I go. But I won't just keep going if I hate it. I always keep up via internet summaries and the like regardless though, my love of the character is definitely enough for that when it basically costs nothing.

Its by far the best metric we have, like rpmaluki says. I'd argue the only true metric. People who are upset are more loud, its how people are. Its far and away less reliable. And yes I know Rebirth was selling better than Bendis's run at this point. Its not that significant a gap, but yeah, I'd see that and say that Rebirth was slightly better received by readers. I have no trouble admitting that even though I personally like what Bendis is doing far more than anything Tomasi/Jurgens ever did in that era. What I won't admit though is that its to the degree where its some sort of no-brainer that things have to go back and that this direction does not have the right to keep going as of now. That far is very much not supported by the numbers. Anyway, I wasn't comparing the two runs, I was comparing how things fared within his run to the point new Jon showed up. Things are still within the range of how its been doing the whole time.

I just don’t believe major stuff like this moves the sales that much, even if people are frustrated by it. Titles people hate do well and titles people love do terribly. Sales don’t measure interest or enjoyment. People may want to know what happens to Jon even if they hate it. Or as you said with much of Rebirth, there may be enough other elements to keep people coming back.

E

[Journey]

I just got a good laugh of Mr. Bendis's whole interview. He's pulling a lot of bull out of his ass grasping as straws trying to make the letting Jon go with Jor-el into space make sense. It doesn't and if will never not make Clark and Lois look like half ass parents even years from now when this run is nothing but a memory. Oh and him saying the reaction to aged up Jon was 50/50 ooh buddy that number seems like a stretch on his part loudest reactions seem mostly negative. Though if it makes him happy to pretend half the fan base is loving this, okay do you bro Lol

Honestly I kind of feel bad as an aspiring writer I can imagine how much it hurts when you have an idea/story you wanna tell, and the majority of the people interested just don't like it. It sucks but hey you can't just change the entire foundation of a preexisting character and just expect people to be okay with it. *shrugs*

[Blue22]

I just got a good laugh of Mr. Bendis's whole interview. He's pulling a lot of bull out of his ass grasping as straws trying to make the letting Jon go with Jor-el into space make sense. It doesn't and if will never not make Clark and Lois look like half ass parents even years from now when this run is nothing but a memory.

You too, huh? Funniest shit I'd heard in a while. Even if Jon had come back completely fine, the fact that Clark let Jor-El (a man he knew was insane) take his wife and son into space; the fact that Lois bailed on Jon after a few weeks; it does nothing but make those two look like incompetent parents. No matter how you try to explain it.

If Bendis really wanted to go in this direction he could have easily had Jor-El just kidnap Jon or something that would have given the Kents no choice in the matter. Instead, all it took was Supes not being man enough to tell his son "no", and Lois being stupid enough to go home by herself, when the whole point of her going was to look after Jon.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Lmao remember this interview was from about year ago


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...apologize/amp/
“No, no, no — it’s a celebration. There are a lot of secrets in our story, and we’re not telling you what’s going on with Jon and Lois right now. With that comes a little bit of trepidation — some people get excited, some people get nervous. That is kind of our job, to get people excited and nervous. I’ll take my hits where they come with that, but people will see in about a year’s time, when the story’s really unfolding, the deep love and affection we have for this family."


Well here we are one year later. And instead of what he predicted, he JUST gave an interview admiting people hate what he’s done to the family. And gave a pathetic excuse for Lois and Clark’s choices.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Split down the middle seems pretty accurate. You go to one comminuity most hate it, you go to another there's lots of praise. It looks like the epitome of a mixed reaction. Its certainly not a Ric Grayson situation where its hard to find any positive remarks anywhere.

I’d say this fiasco is pretty closely comparable to the reaction new 52 prettyboy lobo. I remember some people liked and defended that. But overall...yeah.

[Ascended]

loudest reactions seem mostly negative.

They always are. We complain louder than we praise. Always have.

I have no idea what the wider, entire fanbase thinks of Bendis or what he's done with any particular character. Places like this aren't a viable metric; we're not a good sample population because we're skewed heavily (we're the uber fans, who spend free time talking to strangers about funny books online). Sales are the best metric we have but those aren't completely reliable and are not an indicator of customer satisfaction, only customer support (because if you buy it, you're supporting it whether you enjoy it or not). And there's big knowledge gaps in there too, like whether a book was over-ordered or not. And if the book is returnable that messes with sales trajectories too.

One would assume DC keeps tabs on things like this and does market research so they can accurately gauge how their product is doing. And one would assume that if it weren't going well they'd change things. But that depends on how much faith you put in the company's ability to make informed, wise business decisions.

But there's always going to be some people who dislike a thing, and those people will complain very loudly about it whether they're in the majority or not. Just because the web and social media have given them more volume doesn't mean they actually have more numbers. For all we really know, Bendis is very popular in the fandom and its mostly people like us who aren't enjoy it. Or maybe he's not winning over the fandom at all. We really don't have any way to know for certain.

[rpmaluki]

Precisely. There's no way to know for certain if Bendis' run is more hated than not. We can only speak for ourselves, not the fandom.

[DragonPiece]

Just saw this in BC's summary of the word baloon podcast(I didn't listen to it yet)

"And plotlines from Superboy in Gemworld, the Earth going to the Phantom Zone, Jonathan Kent going to Earth 3, and actions taken by Leviathan are all going to tie together for DC’s Year Of The Villain with a lot of new characters too."

We knew Leviathan was going to be tying in to year of the villain, but I am surprised superboy in gem world and Jon Kent's earth 3 journey ties in. Did anyone who listened hear Bendis state this directly?

[MeGrimlock420]

Young Justice #4 preview

https://aux.avclub.com/amethyst-char...4-e-1833714848

[bigstupidjellyfish]

Just saw this in BC's summary of the word baloon podcast(I didn't listen to it yet)

"And plotlines from Superboy in Gemworld, the Earth going to the Phantom Zone, Jonathan Kent going to Earth 3, and actions taken by Leviathan are all going to tie together for DC’s Year Of The Villain with a lot of new characters too."

We knew Leviathan was going to be tying in to year of the villain, but I am surprised superboy in gem world and Jon Kent's earth 3 journey ties in. Did anyone who listened hear Bendis state this directly?

I don’t think it means that it’ll all tie in to Year of the Villain, but rather it’s all related to this big Superman story that he has been telling.

[Yoda]

Young Justice #4 preview

https://aux.avclub.com/amethyst-char...4-e-1833714848

One thing from YJ #4 that I thought was really interesting, and could impact what we have seen in Superman spoilers:

Conner’s child is a daughter named Martha. I wonder if she’s the person everyone assumed is Jon’s sister from the future visions in Superman? And nice that he named her Martha, so we have namesakes for both Kent’s. Maybe he brings her back to Earth with him after YJ escapes and Clark and Lois take her in?

end of spoilers