Page 424 of 502 FirstFirst ... 324374414420421422423424425426427428434474 ... LastLast
Results 6,346 to 6,360 of 7523
  1. #6346
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    700

    Default

    Oh heck yes! I love Ma and Pa Kent! I don't see what narrative purpose them being dead ever served and they make Superman's supporting cast considerably more vibrant. And not every major superhero needs to have a dead mom/and or dead dad. Don't know what's up with that trend.

  2. #6347
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    627

    Default

    I hope Johns just re-canonizes his Brainiac arc where Jon dies of a heart attack and Martha lives. Thereís a reason why that setupís been the default way things have turn out in other media since the George Reeves show, it works. I donít even feel passionate about Martha being alive, but I canít think of a good reason why she should be dead beyond the cliche ďthe protagonistís parents MUST be dead because blah blah blah Joseph Campbell blah blah blah.

  3. #6348
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Interview - BENDIS Excited To Get SUPER-Family Back Together For SUPERMAN / SUPERGIRL Crossover: https://www.newsarama.com/45542-bend...crossover.html
    Generally speaking, I've never cared one way or the other if the Kents were around or not. For what the New 52 was going for I was fine with it, and similarly for what Rebirth was going for I actually really appreciated them being gone (maybe more than the New 52 honestly) on a thematic level because, like Tomasi said, Clark had to fill Pa's shoes without Pa being there to guide him. It put Clark in an interesting and awkward position that he didn't have a reliable wellspring of infallible home-spun wisdom to get him by. It had a similar crackle of energy to a Superman just starting out and making mistakes.

    But if there really is a readjusting of time that erases what happened that prom night, then I'd like to go back to just Martha. And I'm actually quite happy that it's Bendis who's getting her. Over the course of his run on Action, Superman, and the likes of Jessica Jones, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Miles, he's done great work with flawed and three dimensional parental figures. Jor-El and Sam Lane have been the most interesting they've ever been to me since Bendis' run, so I hope for a Martha who's more than just a caricature. That would be my only issue because I'm really, really digging the Superman family as it's growing here.
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

    "Your videos give us hope. They give us strength in these times of slow normals, Chun-Li costumes and rampant New York fires.
    We shall overcome. The day will come when we are all warmed up."


    -Coffee That

    PM me if you tryina mix it up in SFV (and Dragon Ball FighterZ). Just know: the hypa bomb takes no prisoners.

  4. #6349
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    2,876

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    I hope Johns just re-canonizes his Brainiac arc where Jon dies of a heart attack and Martha lives. There’s a reason why that setup’s been the default way things have turn out in other media since the George Reeves show, it works. I don’t even feel passionate about Martha being alive, but I can’t think of a good reason why she should be dead beyond the cliche “the protagonist’s parents MUST be dead because blah blah blah Joseph Campbell blah blah blah.
    Well I prefer them dead because
    1. I think them being dead helps cement that Clark’s days of hiding are over, and he needs to start preparing to go public
    2. His oath to dying Pa to defend the downtrodden and oppressed is awesome
    3. It’s a tragedy that shows Clark that even he has limits, and is a moment of despair that Clark can overcome to show the power of hope
    Since DC decided Clark was going to be “human first” the death of Krypton has sort of lost all impact. It’s not really something he can feel if he considers himself human and emphasizes nurture over nature. But then the death of the Kents takes on a greater impact because it shows that yes Superman has had moments of suffering in his life. He’s not some naive idiot telling people to just hope harder while he has never actually had to experience hardship himself. That was my problem with the Byrne Superman. Dude basically had a perfect life, the hell could he do to inspire anyone? He never encountered any real obstacles.

    Also I freaking hate them sending Clark running back to mom and dad any time a difficult problem comes up. Makes him look weak willed and indecisive if he can’t tackle problems on his own.
    Last edited by Vordan; 06-11-2019 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #6350
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,666

    Default

    I like the idea of having Pa Kent die via a heart attack, because that is something Superman can't prevent. Having the Kents be killed by a villain, either Morrison's imp or Johns' Dr. Manhattan, or Pa Kent in MoS in my opinion invalidates that message completely. Because it is something he can prevent and routinely does. I think bringing Ma back is fine.

    And while it can be overused like anything else, having him go to Ma or Pa for guidance or advice shouldn't be seen as a weakness. I'm 40 and still ask my father for advice from time to time. Asking for help shouldnt be considered a weakness. But yeah, like anything else it's the execution that matters, it shouldn't be a every 3-4 issue thing and was overused during the Loeb era if I recall correctly.

  6. #6351
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    2,876

    Default

    Honestly as long as Pa and Clark have that final conversation where Clark promises to use his powers to protect people, I’m not too obsessed about the particulars of the death. I still think that they should both die in his youth to mark his transition to adulthood, but I’d be ok with the events of Johns Brainiac arc being recanonized I guess. Brainiac killing one of his adopted parents really gives some solid hate between the two and still tests Clark’s moral fiber. It’s his “Death in the Family” moment where he wants to kill Brainiac in retaliation but checks himself.

  7. #6352
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    We're thinking of two different interviews then. The one I'm thinking of it's fairly clear. This is supported by his word balloon interview where he's acknowledging how controversial it is, but he's continues on saying that it's a story he genuinely believes in, and it's not something he'd do if he didn't think it was worthwhile

    Regardless, to the original point, I'm all but certain that his intent was to show that he really has put quite a bit of thought and care into these changes, and that may not be evident to those skeptic till everything becomes clear. Lois is an example of this. Most thought that he was shipping her off, breaking them up, and trying to keep her from her job, but clearly none of that is true. She's now leading an event, working side by side with her husband, and will soon get her on 12 issue run. Some skeptic may still say "but then why the uncertainty beforehand? Couldn't we have gotten here from XYZ?" Well, yeah, the answer is likely yes, but realistically that same answer would apply to all stories even the greats.

    Hopefully the landing sticks with Jon in a similar way, but like Lois, I don't think there ever won't be those questions of "couldn't you have done XYZ." But for whatever it's worth I doubt that he of all writers aged Jon up because he couldn't or didn't want to deal with him as a child. As he said in his word balloon interview, he did this because he honestly has a story he thinks is worth telling, and that this opens up more doors in his mind than it closes.
    I'm talking about the interview done on Comic Book Resources. We all discussed it many pages ago.

    Either way, he always talks about Jon in vague generalities. It doesn't really show a lot of thought has been put into his direction for the character. All the explanation he's provided comes from building Clark's character, not Jon's. Besides the situation that Lois and Jon are in are very different. Nothing he's done to Lois can't be easily fixed in two seconds by the next writer. The stuff with her is way less radical. Turning Jon 10 again would be much more complicated. It's different situations.
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Teen Titans, Justice League, Doomsday Clock, Justice League Dark, Aquaman

    Image: Lazarus, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Go Go Power Rangers

  8. #6353
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Either way, he always talks about Jon in vague generalities. It doesn't really show a lot of thought has been put into his direction for the character. All the explanation he's provided comes from building Clark's character, not Jon's.
    I feel like that's to be expected when he's still having a story actively unfold about the character right now, and he doesn't want to give too much away. But there are clear points he has in mind such as Jon's reunion with Damian, and what his teased destiny is. Also, for the time being at least, he has to filter Jon's story at least in part through Clark's because he's writing Clark's book, hence why Clark gets the internal narration.

    And the point of my comparison wasn't on how reversible the situations were, but rather how both characters were taking from their traditional set-ups and close proximity to Clark, and are now being returned with something new to them. Lois' stuff has since begun to payoff, and it's been made abundantly clear that they are as in love as they've ever been, and funny enough they're working more as a team than they have in years of publication. In Jon's case, similar to Lois, first the misconceptions are being tossed out: he didn't come back evil, he continues to uphold what his family stands for, he's still in compete awe of his dad, and he's still learning. But he's also come with the addition of a strengthened resolve and a greater degree of independence. Now, hopefully, we get the equivalent of greater DC comics prominence, some sort of book, and continued closeness with Clark.

    And it's totally fine if your thinking continues to be "they could've done XYZ and gotten this" or that you don't see the point. Ultimately it's subjective, but circling this back to my original point because I'd rather this be my last message on the matter, I think the point is that he knows it may seem like he's just blowing all of this up for the heck of it, but he genuinely think's the stories he'll be able to tell are worth it and people will dig them. I think that's all he's ever meant.
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

    "Your videos give us hope. They give us strength in these times of slow normals, Chun-Li costumes and rampant New York fires.
    We shall overcome. The day will come when we are all warmed up."


    -Coffee That

    PM me if you tryina mix it up in SFV (and Dragon Ball FighterZ). Just know: the hypa bomb takes no prisoners.

  9. #6354
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Well I prefer them dead because
    1. I think them being dead helps cement that Clark’s days of hiding are over, and he needs to start preparing to go public
    2. His oath to dying Pa to defend the downtrodden and oppressed is awesome
    3. It’s a tragedy that shows Clark that even he has limits, and is a moment of despair that Clark can overcome to show the power of hope
    Since DC decided Clark was going to be “human first” the death of Krypton has sort of lost all impact. It’s not really something he can feel if he considers himself human and emphasizes nurture over nature. But then the death of the Kents takes on a greater impact because it shows that yes Superman has had moments of suffering in his life. He’s not some naive idiot telling people to just hope harder while he has never actually had to experience hardship himself. That was my problem with the Byrne Superman. Dude basically had a perfect life, the hell could he do to inspire anyone? He never encountered any real obstacles.

    Also I freaking hate them sending Clark running back to mom and dad any time a difficult problem comes up. Makes him look weak willed and indecisive if he can’t tackle problems on his own.
    Clark hardly had a perfect life. Besides losing his planet and race, he grew up having to hide what he really is and knowing he didn’t fully belong. To me that’s more interesting because that’s the struggles that shaped him the most, not dead parents angst. Dont get me wrong dead parent angst can’t be interesting but it has to be done in an interesting/compelling way. The way post Flashpoint handles the matter was, in my opinion super boring. Batman’s dead parent angst is interesting because of how they died and how it shaped young Bruce. There’s so much more than, they’re dead, Bruce sad. Now I think Jonathan should be dead, specifically the heart attack version or something similar. But really since all the other versions of his death kinda suck (tornado suicide, poisonous buried treasure, 5th dimensional imp causing a car accident) I’m more than fine with them just sticking with the heart attack. I think that’s an important moment for reasons Yoda mentioned. A situation where Clark is helpless and has to deal with not being able to save everyone despite his godlike powers. But as important as I think his death is....when it happens really isn’t. Pa Kent croaking isn’t the equivalent of Uncle Ben. It’s not the catalyst for Superman’s mission (which yeah means his deathbed promise isn’t particularly important to me either.) It’s a powerful moment but not a defining one, so it can happen before Clark leaves Smallville or years into his career as a superhero. Not saying I have a problem with it happening before he leaves for metropolis. Either way is fine.

  10. #6355
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,460

    Default

    What's appealing about it to me is that its specifically not dead parent angst. Not by the time he's an adult. By the time he's an adult he uses their memory and their spirit as constant angels on his shoulders. I find this to consistently be far more touching and powerful portrayals and dynamic between son and parents than any story when they've been alive in present day. And that's not to say I don't think there's good ones. Growing up when I did I grew up with them alive. They were fine characters and had some good moments. Just doesn't compare for me to the stuff that's done when they live only in Superman's memory.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  11. #6356
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Toulouse, France
    Posts
    3,079

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its a horrible decision, but I've figured it was coming for so long its hard to get too mad about it anew, as I've already been mad about it.

    But I mean, its just another superior detail to Morrison's foundation that hopefully, someday, can be used elsewhere. Just hope people stop trying to say that Reborn combined the two Supermen. This was an absorption, plain and simple, when all is said and done.
    More like erasing New 52 proper. I mean... what remains of New 52 Supes now ? Nothing, really, not even a hint of acknowledgement.

    Not that i care much about it anymore. The only Superman I loved lasted five fine years, had a great send-off and a great start, and I like most of anything which happened in-between.

    And if it opens the door for a full-blown New 52 Earth somewhere in the Multiverse, where everything which happened to him, Wonder Woman and any other character deeply changed by Rebirth, well, I'm fine by it. Even if it's just in my head.

  12. #6357
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    355

    Default

    I'm definitely not a fan of the Kents being around. I love the way Morisson killed them and the impact that had. If they would've just kept Morrison's origin intact I'd probably be happier with things post reborn. I really don't trust Johns with Superman. I give him major credit for his work on Brainiac and restoring Superman's history with the Legion of Superheroes, but other than that it's been frustrating. I'm looking forward to what Bendis does with all of this.

  13. #6358
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    4,743

    Default

    Bring on the Kents! Jon could use some good grandparents. Whenever he gets back from limbo.

  14. #6359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Bring on the Kents! Jon could use some good grandparents. Whenever he gets back from limbo.
    Jon is going to be on limbo? What???

  15. #6360
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    2,876

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Clark hardly had a perfect life. Besides losing his planet and race, he grew up having to hide what he really is and knowing he didn’t fully belong. To me that’s more interesting because that’s the struggles that shaped him the most, not dead parents angst. Dont get me wrong dead parent angst can’t be interesting but it has to be done in an interesting/compelling way. The way post Flashpoint handles the matter was, in my opinion super boring. Batman’s dead parent angst is interesting because of how they died and how it shaped young Bruce. There’s so much more than, they’re dead, Bruce sad. Now I think Jonathan should be dead, specifically the heart attack version or something similar. But really since all the other versions of his death kinda suck (tornado suicide, poisonous buried treasure, 5th dimensional imp causing a car accident) I’m more than fine with them just sticking with the heart attack. I think that’s an important moment for reasons Yoda mentioned. A situation where Clark is helpless and has to deal with not being able to save everyone despite his godlike powers. But as important as I think his death is....when it happens really isn’t. Pa Kent croaking isn’t the equivalent of Uncle Ben. It’s not the catalyst for Superman’s mission (which yeah means his deathbed promise isn’t particularly important to me either.) It’s a powerful moment but not a defining one, so it can happen before Clark leaves Smallville or years into his career as a superhero. Not saying I have a problem with it happening before he leaves for metropolis. Either way is fine.
    He didn’t really angst about them at all though. He mourned their loss but it wasn’t like Bruce where he’s constantly reliving their deaths while crying in the rain. But we seem to hold divergent opinions, Clark never mourned the Kryptonian or Krypton under Byrne. He never really felt their loss at all to be honest. He was very quick to go “I’m an Earthling first”. And he certainly wasn’t hiding his powers, dude was a football star for Christ’s sake, he was basically the small town hero with the hot girlfriend. I don’t buy that guy “suffering” at all. Morrison New 52 Superman was more that guy, the weirdo outcast in rural America. I guess Johns Secret Origin Clark kind of was that but he never really seemed troubled by it iirc although it’s been a while since I read Secret Origin. Now that it’s being recanonized I guess I should go reread it.
    Last edited by Vordan; 06-12-2019 at 09:31 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •