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  1. #7126
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It doesn't feel like a proper replacement for what Clark Kent did when it feels like more of an extension of who he is as Superman now. Especially when, no matter how he approaches it, it's still a Superman-level issue.
    This is a concern for me too. I put a lot of importance on the duality between Clark and Superman (okay, I put a lot of importance on everything), and I think that's the secret ingredient a lot of adaptations and stories miss. When you use Clark and the Planet just for exposition dumps, villain targets, and as easy access for Superman to find adventure, you miss the chance for Superman to have real, human wins and (far more importantly) losses. In some ways, Clark's more important to the story than Superman is.

    But I think Bendis knows this. Looking at his stuff so far, he's thrown a lot at Clark Kent, not just Superman. And he's made Clark more important, and used the Planet more, than most writers have in years. He gave us Chaz! So I am hoping that if the identity does go public (and I'm not convinced this is the case yet) Bendis manages to retain the duality of the character. What that might look like, and whether it actually works or not.....we'll see. But I am really hoping Bendis pulls this thing off, whatever it ends up being.

    I dont believe in change for the sake of it, and I think the foundations of Super mythology are more than strong enough to require no tinkering. But I *do* believe in natural growth and character development. The duality of Clark-Superman has changed and evolved over time, in ways that often run far deeper than the page itself might indicate. If this is just more natural evolution and it makes sense as a viable, faithful direction for Clark? I can get behind the idea of a change like that.

    And if nothing else.....if Bendis doesn't stick the landing, and even if he does....what're the odds this will stick? Even if it's good, even if this is the best idea the mythos has seen in fifty years, it is almost certainly not going to last beyond Bendis' run or the next reboot.
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-14-2019 at 08:05 PM.
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  2. #7127
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    You're using the word "replacement" but it's not accurate for what's being described here. And forgive me if I used it during this exchange, but I'd say "evolution" of what Clark Kent did to fight injustice that Superman couldn't is closer. Clark's job was to use his words and mind to affect change. But to be sure, it's going to more on Superman's scale, so there's no argument there. But the why I'm breaking it down in my mind is Superman/President El/downtime Clark. The duality is blurred because of there being no clear addition of glasses or what have you, but in this run we've seen shades of each of those sides. Again, that doesn't replace the duality, but it's less cut and dry than "Superman 24/7"
    I can imagine them blurring into each other but, to me at least, it just seems more as a means of downplaying the Clark Kent side of things at least as far as that identity goes, or at least blur it in such a way where the duality aspect becomes negligible or not necessary. It may not necessarily be Superman 24/7 but it just feels equivalent to me.
    You're defensive on this, and I'm not sure why. His privacy in and of itself is reason enough. I'm not arguing its functionality to Clark as a person, but rather in an objective sense to his overall mission as a hero. Clark being able to get a burger without it being front page news doesn't help him save the world or galaxy any better. It's a thing he of all people should have a right to, yes, but that's as high as its functionality goes. And that, to me, is fantastic and human, and it makes the idea of him making this choice quite strong.

    As Bendis has said, being Clark Kent is the choice that Superman made even when he didn't have to.
    Personally I think the reporter job is more of something that was Clark's choice if only because Clark Kent only really becomes a choice when he finds out about his Kryptonian heritage (unless we talk about "Clark Kent" in terms of the aspect of him pretending to be human). But being Clark Kent was something he was kind of born into.
    We just have different schools of thought when it comes to this. I don't see it as devaluing.
    I apologize if I'm coming off as obtuse or really defensive about this. Just not a story development I can really buy into or approve of, but that's just me. All power to you for your excitement .

  3. #7128
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Clark Kent side of things at least as far as that identity goes
    What is the definition of "the Clark Kent side of things" because that in and of itself is up for debate when the writer in question apparently insists on calling him Clark when in meetings (his words), and making the more "cosmic" Superman book the one where Clark's thoughts and feelings are almost always being express to the reader. If you're talking about Clark then you're talking about the guy who has the space dad, the son going off to the future, and the wife who has Deathstroke on speed dial. He's the guy who's worried about if he's living up to his potential, and the guy who carries Ma and Pa's teachings everywhere he goes. He's also the guy we see in the quite moments with Lois, Jon, and Kara. That guy can't go anywhere because the story is about him.

    If you mean, the reporter everyone assumes is human, then yeah, the point is to specifically sacrifice that guy, and likely for it to be really hard for Clark. But Clark, the person, with all of the real introspective thoughts as feelings all his own, and the quite moments, doesn't go anywhere. He can't. He's the character.

    I apologize if I'm coming off as obtuse or really defensive about this.
    You're fine. It's a debate, and you have a stance. If it's not something you're feeling for whatever reason, then that's cool.
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  4. #7129
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    From day one Bendis has made a point to distinguish the character and the world he occupies in both books. Though we may see Clark as Superman in Action, Bendis wants to treat that more as a reaction to what DP Clark experiences first, at least that's how i understood his intentions when he started writing. If we are doing away with the secret identity I don't think it will do away with Clark Kent the person as we have seen before. I think Bendis will likely double down on Clark, to see how folks deal with him now that they know he's really Superman. The challenge comes in reinforcing that Clark Kent is a real person and not a facade that helps him get the jump on bad guys.

    People are going to be weird about having Superman work a 9-5pm job in the cubicle next door. Can he even keep his job after the reveal? And if so, what does that mean for DP covering Superman stories. I get that people believe it's a mess with regards to the comic and that it will be reconned soon after, I'm thinking what if it doesn't? Secret identities are becoming obsolete for the modern audience/reader and i get that its hard to part with one so ingrained in the character we fear what he could be without it. I honestly would like to have DC give this plot a fair chance but that is dependent on it being super well written. Bendis is proving to be the guy taking chances with the character (not that others haven't before him) but i hesitate a little on whether he can deliver goods in a truly satisfying way. He is divisive which will likely make the next year a very bumpy ride. Here's hoping this doesn't wholly suck at least and is good at best.

  5. #7130
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  6. #7131
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    Last edited by MeGrimlock420; 09-23-2019 at 07:02 AM.

  7. #7132
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    https://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/d...f-super-heroes

    New Bendis Legion of Super-heroes interview.
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

    "Your videos give us hope. They give us strength in these times of slow normals, Chun-Li costumes and rampant New York fires.
    We shall overcome. The day will come when we are all warmed up."


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  8. #7133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    https://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/d...f-super-heroes

    New Bendis Legion of Super-heroes interview.
    After reading this I don't think I have been more disappointed and a bit annoyed with how Bendis tries to Modernize the Legion like this and cuts it away from Clark's childhood history.

  9. #7134
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I find it ironic it talks about cherry picking the stuff that worked best, and yet the very basis of the group--the thing that made the concept popular in the first place--the kids traveling back in time and meeting their hero Clark Kent/Superboy, was completely omitted. It'd be funny if it wasn't so annoying. And that Event Leviathan appears to be tying into all of this makes me scared that theories of Jon being Leviathan might be true.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-30-2019 at 06:38 PM.
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  10. #7135
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I find it ironic it talks about cherry picking the stuff that worked best, and yet the very basis of the group--the thing that made the concept popular in the first place--the kids traveling back in time and meeting their hero Clark Kent/Superboy, was completely omitted. It'd be funny if it wasn't so annoying. And that Event Leviathan appears to be tying into all of this makes me scared that theories of Jon being Leviathan might be true.
    Leviathan being Jon would really cut the wind from Legion's sails, I think. He's the anchor to that book. I can't think of a better way to make sure that book is stillborn than set up Jon as a villain.

  11. #7136
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I find it ironic it talks about cherry picking the stuff that worked best, and yet the very basis of the group--the thing that made the concept popular in the first place--the kids traveling back in time and meeting their hero Clark Kent/Superboy, was completely omitted. It'd be funny if it wasn't so annoying. And that Event Leviathan appears to be tying into all of this makes me scared that theories of Jon being Leviathan might be true.
    Scared? That seems like something you’d love lol. But I’ve read a theory on who Leviathan is that makes perfect sense to me and it’s not Jon. But we’ll see.

  12. #7137
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Leviathan doesn't strike me as that bad a guy. It was like when I was half-joking about him being another version of Superman. The reveal doesn't seem like something with definitive villainous results, so it wouldn't necessarily be too devastating to a heroic character. But even if it did and time travel was utilized, it would probably be erased anyway or just resolved as a Hypertime version or something like that. Main reason it scares me is that I'm just tired of so much revolving around him either way.

    I think I've read the same theory you did by the way, and I'm very much hoping that's much closer to the mark.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-30-2019 at 08:33 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  13. #7138
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Leviathan being Jon would really cut the wind from Legion's sails, I think. He's the anchor to that book. I can't think of a better way to make sure that book is stillborn than set up Jon as a villain.
    I'm not convinced Leviathan is a villain. No one is getting killed (far as we know) and who are the targets? Spies, intelligence agencies, terror groups.....no one being targeted by Leviathan have clean hands. None of the "victims" are innocent....except arguably Manhunter, who was framed (unless she's Leviathan). And she's a killer herself so not exactly "innocent." Is Leviathan's methods really that much worse than what Batman uses, or would use if he decided to take the spy world apart and build something better?

    I dont think it's Jon though. Not at all. I dont think Bendis would split the character's arc like that. Everything with the Legion is about legacy and hope and building a better tomorrow and Jon's the poster child for that. I don't think Bendis would simultaneously make Jon the new face of the moral quagmire that is covert intelligence. I mean, it *could* work, if you spun it right (Jon becomes disillusioned or impatient for the future to get here or whatever, gets twisted up, takes matters into his own hands) but I just don't see Bendis splitting the themes he's trying to build around Jon like this.
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  14. #7139
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    From Bendis IG:

    "Coming soon in action comics by legends @johnromitajr @kjansonnyc #justiceleague versus #legionofdoom on the streets of metropolis! I know some of you been hearing a lot of rumors about some big changes coming to the superman story... the truth is coming!"



    https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Duam1BwIL/

  15. #7140
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    From Bendis IG:

    "Coming soon in action comics by legends @johnromitajr @kjansonnyc #justiceleague versus #legionofdoom on the streets of metropolis! I know some of you been hearing a lot of rumors about some big changes coming to the superman story... the truth is coming!"


    https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Duam1BwIL/
    Really wish Romita Jr. wasn’t drawing this because the premise is very exciting for me. When was the last time we got an honest to Rao gang war in Metropolis? Has it every happened? And add the LoD into the mix and things could get very interesting. Oh well, I’ll still be there.

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