Official : Bendis gets both books

[Myskin]

Every attempt to find a real world equivalent to the dichotomy Superman/Clark Kent is inevitably destined to failure because there isn't an equivalent in real life. It's something which exists only in the world of fiction, or - to say it better - in the minuscule fraction of the world of fiction which are Superman comic books. Or maybe kid's series like Hanna Montana.

Mentioning privacy in this case is laughable. Superman is the most famous public figure in the DCU, and he doesn't wear any mask. He flies and he wears a huge S. He WANTS to be recognizable. And Clark Kent doesn't wear any real disguise. It's just a funny, naively childish concept which was elaborated when facial recognition didn't exist and comic books were even more simplistic than they are now. If Superman were created today and they wanted to preserve the Clark Kent/Superman thing it should be completely rethought - maybe they could make Clark a reclusive, agoraphobic journalist who rarely interacts with anyone and sends his works by e-mail or something like that. I really don't think that Bendis could be blamed for triyng to make the concept evolve a bit since the 1930s.

[Desmark]

How can he abandon clark kent. Clark kent is who he is. Superman is something that people call the real clark as. If you mean the act or clumsy clark persona. Then that's going away.

If Bruce could do so in fugitive you bet Bendis thinks Clark can do so too regardless of whether it makes sense or not..

[Desmark]

Every attempt to find a real world equivalent to the dichotomy Superman/Clark Kent is inevitably destined to failure because there isn't an equivalent in real life. It's something which exists only in the world of fiction, or - to say it better - in the minuscule fraction of the world of fiction which are Superman comic books. Or maybe kid's series like Hanna Montana.

Mentioning privacy in this case is laughable. Superman is the most famous public figure in the DCU, and he doesn't wear any mask. He flies and he wears a huge S. He WANTS to be recognizable. And Clark Kent doesn't wear any real disguise. It's just a funny, naively childish concept which was elaborated when facial recognition didn't exist and comic books were even more simplistic than they are now. If Superman were created today and they wanted to preserve the Clark Kent/Superman thing it should be completely rethought - maybe they could make Clark a reclusive, agoraphobic journalist who rarely interacts with anyone and sends his works by e-mail or something like that. I really don't think that Bendis could be blamed for triyng to make the concept evolve a bit since the 1930s.

That would be his next bright idea to draw inspiration from his Sentry characterization.

[Myskin]

That would be his next bright idea to draw inspiration from his Sentry characterization.

Heh, why not? It would be more interesting than super brawny, newly hired journalist in a metropolitan newspaper with ZERO previous experience, Clark Kent from Snyder's Man of Steel. But that's too easy. Everything would be more interesting than Man of Steel.

[Ascended]

It also seems to be implied that he may have to give up all of the awards he got as a reporter.

Hell, this might call into question some of the awards and stories the Daily Planet got about and around Superman. I can't imagine Perry will be too happy about that. I'm actually really interested in his reaction. I also really look forward to Fraction navigating Jimmy's reaction.

Not only that, but could this blow back on some of the investigations the Planet has spear headed over the years? Considering how many investigative articles Lois and Clark have written that have taken down corrupt businessmen and politicians and uncovered criminal elements all across Metropolis and the world. Would there be legal grounds to toss those convictions out the window? Imagine the criminals who could get out of jail all at once is this were the case. What're the legal loopholes when the guy who wrote the article that landed you in jail was secretly an alien god-like being who isn't actually a legal American citizen?

[Yoda]

Not only that, but could this blow back on some of the investigations the Planet has spear headed over the years? Considering how many investigative articles Lois and Clark have written that have taken down corrupt businessmen and politicians and uncovered criminal elements all across Metropolis and the world. Would there be legal grounds to toss those convictions out the window? Imagine the criminals who could get out of jail all at once is this were the case. What're the legal loopholes when the guy who wrote the article that landed you in jail was secretly an alien god-like being who isn't actually a legal American citizen?

Real world these would be two separate issues. Convictions generally aren't built on evidence collected through reporters since reporteres are not hamstrung by things like warrants and will often use evidence from confidential sources they will then refuse to identify in court. Realistically, that side of it shouldn't come into play. I mean, realistically, every criminal that was apprehended by Batman, Superman, and especially those that confessed through Wonder Woman's lasso would essentially be unprosecutable. Wonder Woman's lasso violates the 5th Amendment since it compels self incrimination so any confession would be inadmissible and any evidence collected through information obtained by it would also be inadmissible.

[stargazer01]

Not only that, but could this blow back on some of the investigations the Planet has spear headed over the years? Considering how many investigative articles Lois and Clark have written that have taken down corrupt businessmen and politicians and uncovered criminal elements all across Metropolis and the world. Would there be legal grounds to toss those convictions out the window? Imagine the criminals who could get out of jail all at once is this were the case. What're the legal loopholes when the guy who wrote the article that landed you in jail was secretly an alien god-like being who isn't actually a legal American citizen?

But Clark was adopted by the Kents as a baby. He was raised in the heart of America. He didn't even know he was an alien until later. Superman can say he did it all to protect his family and himself from those who wanted to hurt him (like Lex). I think humans should be grateful he has protected them so many times from big danger or even death.

[Ascended]

Real world these would be two separate issues. Convictions generally aren't built on evidence collected through reporters since reporteres are not hamstrung by things like warrants and will often use evidence from confidential sources they will then refuse to identify in court. Realistically, that side of it shouldn't come into play. I mean, realistically, every criminal that was apprehended by Batman, Superman, and especially those that confessed through Wonder Woman's lasso would essentially be unprosecutable. Wonder Woman's lasso violates the 5th Amendment since it compels self incrimination so any confession would be inadmissible and any evidence collected through information obtained by it would also be inadmissible.

Makes sense. My wife is the one who studies law so I have no idea.

Of course, law in the DCU would have to be different but we can always use real law as a baseline/starting point.

[Mago dos Gatos]

I like the interpreatation that Superman just hides in plain sight.The reason that nobody found out was because they weren't looking for Superman when they were looking at Clark.

[Ascended]

The glasses, clothes, posture, and mannerisms are all he needs, really. I worked at a restaurant for years that would see tons of celebrities come through. And most of the time I never recognized them. Without the Hollywood make up and professional lighting and all the rest of it they look like totally different people.

Facial recog tech is another matter (which is easily solved but whatever), but for the average person? The disguise holds up better under real-world conditions than a lot of people think it does. No one's expecting to be in an elevator with Superman, and the frumpy guy with the thick glasses and mustard stain on his tie? Nobody's gonna look at him and say "Well there's Superman!" They're just gonna think "It's another dark haired white guy."

The Planet staff, assuming they interact with both Clark and Superman on a regular basis? That's harder to sell. But that's like, three people, and I believe Perry White knew within the first few weeks of Clark working for him and just never said anything. And Lois and Jimmy are blinded by their own opinions on Superman (like the rest of the world) to recognize him as Clark.

If some random dude *does* put it together? Who's gonna buy that? "Oh, this random person on the internet said Superman is really some reporter from Metropolis. Yeah, fake news. Obviously Superman doesn't have a secret identity at all; he's way too busy and could never blend in with regular people! Look at him! He's way too perfect and amazing for something like that to work; if he had a secret identity he'd wear a mask."

[Robanker]

The glasses, clothes, posture, and mannerisms are all he needs, really. I worked at a restaurant for years that would see tons of celebrities come through. And most of the time I never recognized them. Without the Hollywood make up and professional lighting and all the rest of it they look like totally different people.

Facial recog tech is another matter (which is easily solved but whatever), but for the average person? The disguise holds up better under real-world conditions than a lot of people think it does. No one's expecting to be in an elevator with Superman, and the frumpy guy with the thick glasses and mustard stain on his tie? Nobody's gonna look at him and say "Well there's Superman!" They're just gonna think "It's another dark haired white guy."

The Planet staff, assuming they interact with both Clark and Superman on a regular basis? That's harder to sell. But that's like, three people, and I believe Perry White knew within the first few weeks of Clark working for him and just never said anything. And Lois and Jimmy are blinded by their own opinions on Superman (like the rest of the world) to recognize him as Clark.

If some random dude *does* put it together? Who's gonna buy that? "Oh, this random person on the internet said Superman is really some reporter from Metropolis. Yeah, fake news. Obviously Superman doesn't have a secret identity at all; he's way too busy and could never blend in with regular people! Look at him! He's way too perfect and amazing for something like that to work; if he had a secret identity he'd wear a mask."

Stop having an intelligent opinion, it's disrupting my belief that a character I don't like is outrageously silly.

Really, though, this is entirely accurate. I see a cousin once a year at a Christmas party and today we walked past one another and didn't recognize each other for a moment. Context matters.

[Myskin]

Stop having an intelligent opinion, it's disrupting my belief that a character I don't like is outrageously silly.

Really, though, this is entirely accurate. I see a cousin once a year at a Christmas party and today we walked past one another and didn't recognize each other for a moment. Context matters.

Those "rules" to hide the secret identity (mannerism, etc) work only if you really want them to work (sorry Ascended).
Because yes, it's true, it sometimes happens that celebrities succeed in hiding themselves with a pair of dark glasses and a hat. However, it also happens (and it happens a lot of times or gossip news wouldn't exist) that celebrities, or average citizens, or heads of state ARE recognized even if they are doing their best to hide themselves. You can use the situations when the hidden ID works as the basis for your reasoning only if you force your narrative into that direction and you ignore every other single possibility. Here we have the most recognizable public figure in the world who keeps using the same disguise and living in the same places for YEARS. And - if you want to keep a little realism - he is also a potentially dangerous figure. Which means that all the major Security Agencies in the world and at least one major, extremely powerful company (LexCorp) would spend a lot of time and money in trying to find the slightest trace of Superman's private habits. They wouldn't even have to look for his secret identity; all they should do is trying to understand where he goes when he is not punching aliens, because he obviously has to spend his time somewhere. Byrne's famous story about "Luthor discovering that Superman is Clark Kent and discarding the entire thing - every single piece of evidence and investigation even if they obviously have some kind of connection - just because he cannot believe it" is laughable. I didn't buy it when I was a kid, either.

A major problem in keeping the secret ID believable is that in movie adaptations - that is, in works where realism gets the upper hand - they never really succeeded in keeping Clark and Superman really separate to the point of making the audience themselves buy it. As far as I am concerned, this includes Donner's Superman, too. I won't even start talking about Cavill's Superman - they didn't even try with that one. If they are going to do a new Superman movie in the future and they want to keep the secret identity, what I hope to see is the directors and the scriptwriters spending some time in REALLY making this thing believable, in a comedy of errors style.

However, the point is there is nothing wrong if a reader wants to accept the secret ID thing, but let's admit that it's a simplistic trick from a past when a lot of things in comic books were even more simplistic. Like Superman's costume, or his powers, or even his morality. It works only if you force the narrative context into making it acceptable: All Star Is probably the most successful example, and even in that case Morrison builds an almost fable like universe which IMHO would never work in a regular continuity - that's basically Winsor McCay's Superman. But I really don't think that Bendis could be criticized for trying to do something different with it. He has a lot of good points and we shouldn't forget that there are classic elements for which the boundary between believable and not believable has become EXTREMELY thin.

[Agent Z]

Heh, why not? It would be more interesting than super brawny, newly hired journalist in a metropolitan newspaper with ZERO previous experience, Clark Kent from Snyder's Man of Steel. But that's too easy. Everything would be more interesting than Man of Steel.

How does every DC-related thread on this site turn into an excuse to whine about the DCEU? I swear the people who hate it are more obsessed with it that its own defenders.

[manwhohaseverything]

How does every DC-related thread on this site turn into an excuse to whine about the DCEU? I swear the people who hate it are more obsessed with it that its own defenders.

He is just expressing his opinion. He doesn't find Snyder's clark kent interesting. That's valid. He doesn't like many other versions as well.

[manwhohaseverything]

Those "rules" to hide the secret identity (mannerism, etc) work only if you really want them to work (sorry Ascended).
Because yes, it's true, it sometimes happens that celebrities succeed in hiding themselves with a pair of dark glasses and a hat. However, it also happens (and it happens a lot of times or gossip news wouldn't exist) that celebrities, or average citizens, or heads of state ARE recognized even if they are doing their best to hide themselves. You can use the situations when the hidden ID works as the basis for your reasoning only if you force your narrative into that direction and you ignore every other single possibility. Here we have the most recognizable public figure in the world who keeps using the same disguise and living in the same places for YEARS. And - if you want to keep a little realism - he is also a potentially dangerous figure. Which means that all the major Security Agencies in the world and at least one major, extremely powerful company (LexCorp) would spend a lot of time and money in trying to find the slightest trace of Superman's private habits. They wouldn't even have to look for his secret identity; all they should do is trying to understand where he goes when he is not punching aliens, because he obviously has to spend his time somewhere. Byrne's famous story about "Luthor discovering that Superman is Clark Kent and discarding the entire thing - every single piece of evidence and investigation even if they obviously have some kind of connection - just because he cannot believe it" is laughable. I didn't buy it when I was a kid, either.

A major problem in keeping the secret ID believable is that in movie adaptations - that is, in works where realism gets the upper hand - they never really succeeded in keeping Clark and Superman really separate to the point of making the audience themselves buy it. As far as I am concerned, this includes Donner's Superman, too. I won't even start talking about Cavill's Superman - they didn't even try with that one. If they are going to do a new Superman movie in the future and they want to keep the secret identity, what I hope to see is the directors and the scriptwriters spending some time in REALLY making this thing believable, in a comedy of errors style.

However, the point is there is nothing wrong if a reader wants to accept the secret ID thing, but let's admit that it's a simplistic trick from a past when a lot of things in comic books were even more simplistic. Like Superman's costume, or his powers, or even his morality. It works only if you force the narrative context into making it acceptable: All Star Is probably the most successful example, and even in that case Morrison builds an almost fable like universe which IMHO would never work in a regular continuity - that's basically Winsor McCay's Superman. But I really don't think that Bendis could be criticized for trying to do something different with it. He has a lot of good points and we shouldn't forget that there are classic elements for which the boundary between believable and not believable has become EXTREMELY thin.

I propose giving superman allmight like transformation .


A muscle form and a lanky form.