Official : Bendis gets both books

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

What the you're contradicting yourself man. You just said it, he isn't even in top 50 atm. And yet you prefer him over Tomasi and Jurgens.
Aight

I'd be contradicting myself if Jurgens and Tomasi/Gleason were among the top 50.

They aren't.

[Daniel22]

Yes, that's it.

For all of Action Comics, and most of Superman, it was like they were assembling toys. The comics were products, nothing more.

In their defense, they were catering to the fans. I thought both were fanservice runs, but like you said they were non-challenging books.

They felt incredibly fan servicey to me. I felt like they catered to older, more conservative DC readers who may have dropped off Superman. They felt nostalgic and backwards looking. Bringing in the author of "Death of Superman" in 2015 sends a pretty clear message imo, and that message is that these ARE your father's Superman books. They felt like a clear response to the books that have taken huge risks and challenged the status quo recently.

[Miles To Go]

Because some of us are tired of the current teams.

Bendis isn't even among the top 50 writers I'd like to see on the Superman books, but I'll take him over the current teams.

If you think Bendis is'nt a top 50 writer, why did you utter such rubbish as Riri Williams being more competently written than Superman?

It just seems like trolling to me at this stage.

I'd be contradicting myself if Jurgens and Tomasi/Gleason were among the top 50.

They aren't.

With how stable and fun they've made the Superman books over the last two years or so, I'd say they are. You don't like them? Boo hoo, I'll hold your violin, but your unhealthy fixation on how "bad" they are is not shared by everyone who owe their renewed interest in Superman comics entirely to their efforts.

[The Dying Detective]

The books sold better. I don't think they ever got to the level where a lot of people (and presumably DC, or else why change authors) feel Superman should be selling. DC books in general sold better after Rebirth though. How much of their increase was a bump from Rebirth and how much of that is due to the writing is impossible to say. They did a better job of not having as many crossovers, which I think helps a book's stability long term. You felt like you could read just that title and not be missing a whole lot, which helps keep readers on board.

I just always felt like they were more about not messing up than being great. I never felt like they went for a home run, I felt like they were happy to just make good contact. Which may end up being a good thing. The books were definitely consistent and simple, which is an overall better thing than inconsistent and overly complicated, as they were for a good portion of the New 52. They kind of took the doctor's motto towards the books of "First, do no harm". Which didn't make for super compelling and interesting books week to week imo, but it did stabilize the books and establish a baseline of what fans can expect. Which might have been their whole goal. I think the line is in a better place than it has been in years, which is no small feat and something they should be proud of.

Yeah but for some the bad part is how Superman is still the same there was no attempt to put a more creative voice behind him. So it definitely might need some shaking up.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

If you think Bendis is'nt a top 50 writer, why did you utter such rubbish as Riri Williams being more competently written than Superman?

It just seems like trolling to me at this stage.

Because Superman has been around for so long he's had many stories that I don't consider to be that good.

If we go back to the Post-Crisis era, up until the 00s there are next to no stories from the flagship books that I'm a fan of. That's nearly fifteen years worth of Superman comics.

This goes back to my Simpsons comparison. The Simpsons has what I consider to be among the best TV ever created. There's 8 seasons worth of what I consider to be great television. Then there are 21 seasons that I don't think are that good, if not awful.

There are many shows that I would say are written better than The Simpsons overall, even if I don't think those shows compete with the 8 seasons worth of Simpsons that I think are really good.

With how stable and fun they've made the Superman books over the last two years or so, I'd say they are. You don't like them? Boo hoo, I'll hold your violin, but your unhealthy fixation on how "bad" they are is not shared by everyone who owe their renewed interest in Superman comics entirely to their efforts.

It was literally a reply to a post about my top 50.

[Jokerz79]

I'm no Bendis fan but I don't mind him in DC books as much as I did Marvel I mean it's DC they'll just retcon or reboot his stories out of continuity in a few years if really awful.

[Barbatos666]

They felt incredibly fan servicey to me. I felt like they catered to older, more conservative DC readers who may have dropped off Superman. They felt nostalgic and backwards looking. Bringing in the author of "Death of Superman" in 2015 sends a pretty clear message imo, and that message is that these ARE your father's Superman books. They felt like a clear response to the books that have taken huge risks and challenged the status quo recently.

Yeah the Rebirth Super line which gave us Super Sons and New Super-Man were written for our fathers and is backward looking.

I'm sure Wee Wee Williams and her awful dialogue will represent the young hip people of tomoorrow.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Yeah the Rebirth Super line which gave us Super Sons and New Super-Man were written for our fathers and is backward looking.

We were talking about the flagship books, Action Comics & Superman.

[Barbatos666]

If Bendis is even more awful than the current teams, and he makes sales totally crash, then DC will just move him to something else and give others the Superman books.

The current teams aren't awful. You want awful read his Iron Man or Civil War 2 or 95% of his output with in the last decade.

Lets be honest, you find the Superman books not challenging because they dont go around preaching pseudo liberal ideals 24/7.

[Barbatos666]

We were talking about the flagship books, Action Comics & Superman.

Super Sons is a direct spin off and they're part of the same era, the same mentality, the same vision.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Lets be honest, you find the Superman books not challenging because they dont go around preaching pseudo liberal ideals 24/7.

Liberalism isn't left enough for me, actually.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Super Sons is a direct spin off and they're part of the same era, the same mentality, the same vision.

Super Sons focuses on other characters, and if you noticed, I made an exception to Jon when talking about how the books come across.

Not that Super Sons is forward looking in anything more than a superficial way, but it's a fun book that just kind of is.

[Barbatos666]

Its ok by me if you want books to be preachy. While I've been greatly disillusioned by the left I still loathe right wing politics. I however believe that Superman shouldn't be a mouth piece for anything but humanism.

[Barbatos666]

Super Sons focuses on other characters, and if you noticed, I made an exception to Jon when talking about how the books come across.

Not that Super Sons is forward looking in anything more than superficial way, but it's a fun book that just kind of is.

Its a direct spin off book from the main Superman and features the same characters as Superman just with the addition of Damian.

Ofcourse its a forward looking fun book. Putting character and development over other things doesn't it any less forward.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Its ok by me if you want books to be preachy. While I've been greatly disillusioned by the left I still loathe right wing politics. I however believe that Superman shouldn't be a mouth piece for anything but humanism.

"Preachy" has come to mean something so broad that I don't think it has any real meaning in discussions like this.

I'm sure what you and I consider to be a preachy tone is going to be different.

I can only point to examples where I think writers go over the top in trying to get their point across, like Waid in Champions. That's an example of the type of writing I'd like to avoid.