Android 17 vs. Golden Freeza vs. Ultimate Gohan

[Nik Hasta]

Well I blame Chi Chis upbringing of Gohan for that. Kid had excellent potential that literally came out, he did not know what to do with it because his mom made him hit books, not other people.

Like... I get that Dragonball is a fight manga, so the characters are all going to be judged on the metric of their ability to fight to a certain degree, but I think making out that Chi-Chi wanting Gohan to get an education and not just live to fight like his father was a bad thing is bit off.

[Miburo]

Like... I get that Dragonball is a fight manga, so the characters are all going to be judged on the metric of their ability to fight to a certain degree, but I think making out that Chi-Chi wanting Gohan to get an education and not just live to fight like his father was a bad thing is bit off.

I haven't seen no book learnan save the universe.

...Okay, Maybe if you want to be a jerk and count Bulma, and the whole space empire stuff, and the androids and that ****, and that trip to Namek stuff, and the fact all spacefaring races blah blah blah let's change the subject, but I don't see Gohan building no timedroid 27!

GOKU WAS RIGHT. LIFT THE WEIGHTS AND PUNCH JIREN IN THE FACE. SAVE THE UNIVERSE.

[BitVyper]

Like... I get that Dragonball is a fight manga, so the characters are all going to be judged on the metric of their ability to fight to a certain degree, but I think making out that Chi-Chi wanting Gohan to get an education and not just live to fight like his father was a bad thing is bit off.

Yeah, I agree. THAT SAID, she also kind of pointedly locked Goku out of his life for a lot of it. I mean it's easy to rag on Goku, but for the longest time Chichi wouldn't let him do ANY training with his son, which in this situation is basically telling him they can't have a relationship.

She also puts like, waaaaay too much pressure on the kid. I mean for all that Goku isn't a great dad, Chichi's a pretty bad mom too. Thank god a demon kidnapped him to fight aliens.

[master of read]

Like... I get that Dragonball is a fight manga, so the characters are all going to be judged on the metric of their ability to fight to a certain degree, but I think making out that Chi-Chi wanting Gohan to get an education and not just live to fight like his father was a bad thing is bit off.

agree. i get the hate chi-chi gets but while she's cool with goku just bumming around and not doing much, but it's totally believable that a mother would want her son to be educated and well rounded. i mean, goku isn't exactly what you'd call a good role-model. and i'd say she's succeeded in that area. gohan has a well paying job, a loving and understanding wife and a daughter he adores. while goku is the better fighter between him and his son, gohan is the better character.

[BitVyper]

As far as Goku goes, well most of his absences were due to him being dead, and lest we forget the time Goku chose to remain dead because he felt his presence in the world was generating more conflicts, he was pretty much right. Goku being dead after the Cell game kicked off the longest period of no one trying to conquer or destroy the world that Dragon Ball Earth has experienced since Bulma met Goku. And then the Buu saga kicked off the one day he came back. Coincidence? Maybe, or maybe Goku is just faintly aware of the cosmic consequences of his life.

ANYWAY the point is a lot of Goku's problems can be justified as literally everyone will die if Goku doesn't abandon Gohan for awhile OR Goku being dead OR Chichi just not allowing him to be involved with his son. Meanwhile, Chichi isn't exactly bringing home the bacon either, and no one is going to blow up the Earth if SHE goes and gets a job. Really, the two of them are awful parents and Gohan pretty much raised his damn self after Piccolo dropped him in the wild.

[Nik Hasta]

Chichi and Goku's relationship is a whole other thing to be honest but it does factor a lot into Gohan's upbringing.

Bulma and Vegeta at least seem to like each other and so on. Goku and Chichi just... hoo boy, let's just say that interpersonal relationships are not Toriyama's strong suit.

[master of read]

no one is claiming either goku or chi-chi are parents of the year. (which shouldn't be surprising considering how and why goku and chi-chi hooked up)

just that chi-chi wasn't the ogre of a mother the fandom likes to think she is. and considering how he grew up, it's a miracle that gohan grew up to be a well adjusted and responsible husband and father he is.

[master of read]

Chichi and Goku's relationship is a whole other thing to be honest but it does factor a lot into Gohan's upbringing.

Bulma and Vegeta at least seem to like each other and so on. Goku and Chichi just... hoo boy, let's just say that interpersonal relationships are not Toriyama's strong suit.

at least geets and bulma show that they have a good deal of martial affection for each other.

[Len Ikari145]

Like... I get that Dragonball is a fight manga, so the characters are all going to be judged on the metric of their ability to fight to a certain degree, but I think making out that Chi-Chi wanting Gohan to get an education and not just live to fight like his father was a bad thing is bit off.

Agreed. I'll also be frank and say that it plainly gets on my nerves how people can't seem to grasp that any mother would be understandably protective and reluctant to send their kid(super-powered hybrid or not) out to fight aliens, space emperors, cyborgs, and eldritch horrors; especially when he was still technically a toddler. I also think (and it's been implied) that a major part of the reason she was originally obstinate about the subject of Gohan's training is because she's still suffering a bit of residual trauma from Goku and Piccolo's battle, which is arguably the most brutal fight in Dragon Ball. Flash Forward four years later, when she discovers that her husband had not only been killed by his worst nemesis to date, but said-nemesis kidnapped her son and it's no wonder why her attitude towards the subject only exacerbated from there.

So yeah, I think she more than deserves a little slack.

Besides, she's visibly mellowed out from that phase in her life and gained perspective as exemplified by her personally training Goten and allowing him to fight against Majin Buu without much protest. She even encourages Gohan and Goku to train together sometimes in Super.

[BitVyper]

Lets not forget the real terrible two of anime parenting: Genma Saotome and Gendo Ikari.

[master of read]

Lets not forget the real terrible two of anime parenting: Genma Saotome and Gendo Ikari.

actually you can add ging freeces to that. he's a great hunter. not a good father.

[BitVyper]

Do all these terrible fathers have names that start with G?

[master of read]

Agreed. I'll also be frank and say that it plainly gets on my nerves how people can't seem to grasp that any mother would be understandably protective and reluctant to send their kid(super-powered hybrid or not) out to fight aliens, space emperors, cyborgs, and eldritch horrors; especially when he was still technically a toddler. I also think (and it's been implied) that a major part of the reason she was originally obstinate about the subject of Gohan's training is because she's still suffering a bit of residual trauma from Goku and Piccolo's battle, which is arguably the most brutal fight in Dragon Ball. Flash Forward four years later, when she discovers that her husband had not only been killed by his worst nemesis to date, but said-nemesis kidnapped her son and it's no wonder why her attitude towards the subject only exacerbated from there.

So yeah, I think she more than deserves a little slack.

Besides, she's visibly mellowed out from that phase in her life and gained perspective as exemplified by her personally training Goten and allowing him to fight against Majin Buu without much protest. She even encourages Gohan and Goku to train together sometimes in Super.

and ya gotta remember that gohan was 5 when he has his first real fight against a guy who could blow up a city with his fingers.

that would scare any decent parent.

[Guy1]

Do all these terrible fathers have names that start with G?

[Sub-Zero MKA]

Agreed. I'll also be frank and say that it plainly gets on my nerves how people can't seem to grasp that any mother would be understandably protective and reluctant to send their kid(super-powered hybrid or not) out to fight aliens, space emperors, cyborgs, and eldritch horrors; especially when he was still technically a toddler. I also think (and it's been implied) that a major part of the reason she was originally obstinate about the subject of Gohan's training is because she's still suffering a bit of residual trauma from Goku and Piccolo's battle, which is arguably the most brutal fight in Dragon Ball. Flash Forward four years later, when she discovers that her husband had not only been killed by his worst nemesis to date, but said-nemesis kidnapped her son and it's no wonder why her attitude towards the subject only exacerbated from there.

So yeah, I think she more than deserves a little slack.

I was watching that fight on youtube some time ago and this very thought crossed my mind. It's completely understandable why she'd be so adverse to gohan walking in his father's footsteps. And considering Goku died twice defending the planet, I think she was right to shield him from that life as much as she could.