Android 17 vs. Golden Freeza vs. Ultimate Gohan

[Darth Drizzle]

With his barrier up, 17 literally shoved his way through an attack that was matching the combined output of SSJB Goku, Gohan, SSJB Vegeta, Golden Frieza, and 17.

Sure, you can overpower his barrier with normal energy attacks, but it takes a lot more than what anyone here has.

Golden Freezas finger beams would pierce his barrier imo as they were injuring Toppo just fine while Freeza was toying around and Toppo was engaged in a beam battle.

Kind of like when Vegetas Big Bang Attack interrupted Cell vs SS2 Gohan, but instaed of a final attack that Cell was distracted by, Freezas while holding back were hurting Toppo who previoisly waded through Kamehas from Goku/Gohan seperately.

Plus Freeza spams those attacks all the time, so doing to 17s barrier with more power added to them is doable(like in his first fight with Super Saiyan Goku, 3rd form vs Piccolo in Z). Freezas energy attacks while not as powerful as Toppos Hakai powers, would still be high enough to replicate his barrier breaking.

[Hazard]

Golden Freezas finger beams would pierce his barrier imo as they were injuring Toppo just fine while Freeza was toying around and Toppo was engaged in a beam battle.

Why should it? It literally has nothing to do with 17's feat.

[Len Ikari145]

Agreed. It kinda says something when Goku has to access SSB + Kaioken during a sparring match. Plus, back in the Buu Saga, Mystic Gohan was one of their best weapons against Super Buu, who had already absorbed Gotenks.

This isn't just Gohan we're talking about here, but Mystic Gohan who had to relearn how to surpass and incorporate Super Saiyan 2 to get back to his top form. It's just that his hair isn't a different color to denote that change more easily.

Goku also flat-out stated after the fight that he made Gohan leader not only because of his intelligence, but because their power levels were equal with one another (so Goku, unlike with Krillin and 17, wasn't holding back his power as a SSB).

[Darth Drizzle]

Why should it? It literally has nothing to do with 17's feat.

Toppos spamed five finger attack is similar to Freezas one finger attack as they both do damage by fast multiple hits on the target in a small area.

It repetitive hits on 17s barrier broke it, so it would make sense that the same type of attack can break it.

The only questions are power level and energy type. I said why I think Freeza is powerful enough and Toppo wasnt using Destruction energy against the shield so its not specifically weak to exotic energies, just normal ki. So Freezas finger beams should work imo.

[Hazard]

Toppos spamed five finger attack is similar to Freezas one finger attack as they both do damage by fast multiple hits on the target in a small area.

God of Destruction Toppo used an attack that broke 17's barrier and that was a big deal. 17 outright notes Toppo's regular Ki has also gotten stronger.

Before that 17's barrier took a blast that was holding off the combined power of Golden Frieza, SSJB Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan. Toppo breaking it is not a feat against 17. It's to show how insane the transformation into a GoD is.

[Darth Drizzle]

God of Destruction Toppo used an attack that broke 17's barrier and that was a big deal. 17 outright notes Toppo's regular Ki has also gotten stronger.

Before that 17's barrier took a blast that was holding off the combined power of Golden Frieza, SSJB Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan. Toppo breaking it is not a feat against 17. It's to show how insane the transformation into a GoD is.

My point was that Toppos regular Ki and not his Destruction Energy was breaking 17s barrier, so sufficient force against it works.

And since it was speedy multiple hit combo style attack that broke it another similar attack by someone who mastered that kind of attack should work as well. The pinpoint, focused, repeated hits the barrier takes may be harder to deflect than the broad energy beam used by Gohan to push him back.

A thing to remember too is that 17 can sheild at Max power, but the enemy cant/isnt going all out in their energy attacks because they dont want to kill anyone accidentally so a no holding back Freeza using said finger spam attack at full power should break the barrier.

I guess it just comes down to if people think a full power Freeza is near Toppo level as it was a basic attack from Toppo that broke the barrier and not a charged or powered up one, or even a Destruction based one(Freeza survived said charged Destruction shot).

[Captain Morgan]

My point was that Toppos regular Ki and not his Destruction Energy was breaking 17s barrier, so sufficient force against it works.

And since it was speedy multiple hit combo style attack that broke it another similar attack by someone who mastered that kind of attack should work as well. The pinpoint, focused, repeated hits the barrier takes may be harder to deflect than the broad energy beam used by Gohan to push him back.

A thing to remember too is that 17 can sheild at Max power, but the enemy cant/isnt going all out in their energy attacks because they dont want to kill anyone accidentally so a no holding back Freeza using said finger spam attack at full power should break the barrier.

I guess it just comes down to if people think a full power Freeza is near Toppo level as it was a basic attack from Toppo that broke the barrier and not a charged or powered up one, or even a Destruction based one(Freeza survived said charged Destruction shot).

I don't think Freiza is especially close to God of Destruction Toppo.

[Hazard]

I guess it just comes down to if people think a full power Freeza is near Toppo level as it was a basic attack from Toppo that broke the barrier and not a charged or powered up one, or even a Destruction based one(Freeza survived said charged Destruction shot).

The guy who got absolutely destroyed by Toppo isn't particularly close to him, no.

[master of read]

up to that point, 17's barrier was standing up a lot of ****, including vanilla toppo's finger beams. when he jumps to GOD, his attacks then crack and shatter it like it was nothing. so seeing how it took a GOD candidate to break it, i'm not seeing frieza or gohan breaking it anytime soon.

[Cyke]

up to that point, 17's barrier was standing up a lot of ****, including vanilla toppo's finger beams. when he jumps to GOD, his attacks then crack and shatter it like it was nothing. so seeing how it took a GOD candidate to break it, i'm not seeing frieza or gohan breaking it anytime soon.

Sound can get through. Frieza just has to keep increasing the volume and frequency of his high pitched laugh and he'll shatter that shield soon enough.

(warning: LOUD)

[Darth Drizzle]

The guy who got absolutely destroyed by Toppo isn't particularly close to him, no.

Well yeah, standing in place and mocking your attacker while taking his best attack made of God of Desteuction energy and then realizing you f'd up to late to actual dedend yourself is not the best fighting technique to use. I wouldnt even call that a fight, just a quick "my new power is awesome, take a look! " followed by a "OK!" and then somebody is humiliated.

That made me mad. Yes it was totally in characted for Freeza to do that but why? If the point was "Destruction God ascension also is a power boost" then the whole 17 barrier and him mentioning it was a power up should have been enough. Freeza getting hurt but surviving it was okay development for him(insane Durability at least).

[Captain Morgan]

I don't think that qualified as Toppo's best attack. He could basically spam those things. Compare it to him trying to fight Vegeta.

Honestly, Freiza hasn't been that impressive in the ToP. 17 feels a lot more battle tested, and the level of power needed to overwhelm him has also been enough to overwhelm Frieza.

[Darth Drizzle]

I don't think that qualified as Toppo's best attack. He could basically spam those things. Compare it to him trying to fight Vegeta.

Honestly, Freiza hasn't been that impressive in the ToP. 17 feels a lot more battle tested, and the level of power needed to overwhelm him has also been enough to overwhelm Frieza.

Freeza has had some developments but they seemed more plot inspired than anything.

Him countering then using destruction energy against Goku was a good one after RoF portrayed him as more powerful than SSB Goku/Vegeta. This was after he says he trained in Hell to maintain his form so they got rid of that weakness.

Then his speed/energy powers were shown a little while intercepting attacks and sneak attacking people during the Tourney was his main role instead of development fights that everyone else had, until Dyspo which showed off his speed(somewhat).

Then by that time the only real fight for him is Toppo who had to go Destruction God Mode to survive his and 17s attack.

So not much growth to get for him really since everyone but him had multiple fights to show off to his 1 vs Dyspo.

But considering we know he gets stronger quickly(6 months in RoF to weeks in the ToP) and can counter energy fast as well(Desteuction Energy that Goku couldnt handle at first) he should have had a better showing so far for sure. Which is why it irks me that he was tossed aside like this, even though it was in character for him.

[greatmetropolitan]

Goku also flat-out stated after the fight that he made Gohan leader not only because of his intelligence, but because their power levels were equal with one another (so Goku, unlike with Krillin and 17, wasn't holding back his power as a SSB).

Agreed. With Krillin they both knew Goku outclassed him power-wise, the point of their battle was to see if Krillin's cunning and strategy would be enough to have him hold his own in the ToP and against foes as strong as Goku. With Gohan and 17 it was to see how far they'd come. Especially Gohan, who they all knew had enormous potential.

I'm inclined just now, given Gohan's kamehameha, to put him on par with 17 (better offensively but 17s barrier is outstanding) and above Freiza.

[nitake92]

In my eye, Freiza outclass 17 and Gohan individually in terms of power and ability so if it's a one on one to the death, he would most likely win. If they fight him together or even one after another (with 17 being last,) I can see them beating him but just barely.

As for who is greater between 17 and Gohan, with 17's new logical mindset unlike how he acted in the Cell saga and the abuse he can make of his barrier, unless Gohan can have a rage boost that eclipse 17's output, then odds are with 17.

Which puts Gohan at a distant 5th. Not that I like that. If Gohan is to retake the 3rd or 4th spot, he would need to a. Powerup immensely via rage boost/ another deus ex to unleash his potential or whatever and he would need more experience fighting. Even with his showings in the TOP, his showing as a tactical fighter seems very low to me unlike with 17 who's shown himself a very good tactical fighter that can utilize what he's got to the most.