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  1. #16
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggdag View Post
    But as it stands, even with 20 years from the infinity formula, and 10 years from being trapped in Dimension Z, he would only be in his mid 50's. He did not age much while frozen. So, when he was revived, he was still in his late 20's, or perhaps his early 30's.

    No matter how you look at it, his aging 60 years at once does not add up.

    he should have been about 24 when he came out of the ice which was say 15 years ago. Plus ten in z years puts him at 49. but take away the formula and his body ages to its natural state. The same thing happened in HOM.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggdag View Post
    Last time I checked, Captain America's lack of age came from the fact that he was frozen for years, and not from the super soldier drug he took. So, why did losing the serum cause him to age rapidly? Did Marval do a rewrite that I missed? I admit I haven't followed CA in a few years.
    No, you're right. He was still a young man both chronologically and physiologically when he went into the ice and suspended animation, and what with the sliding timeline, he hasn't been thawed out for any longer than thirteen or fourteen years at most, so even without the serum and going to his 'proper' age without it, he shouldn't be physically any older than somebody pushing forty.

  3. #18
    Veteran Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    Is this any worse than killing a clone causes that body to disintegrate versus just being a regular dead body?

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Actually, Cap is that old, but his youth was preserved for a long period of time when he was frozen. I'm assuming his aging would have caught up to him at some point after being defrosted if not for the Super Soldier Serum. Also, don't forget he aged another ten years while trapped in Dimension Z (or whatever it was called), so he should be really old now.
    No, the years on ice don't count, serum or no serum, as all his body's processes were suspended while on ice. If you were to continue aging while in cryogenic suspension, there'd be no point to it, after all.

    But the Dimension Z thing is a good catch... revise my statement to him being physically the equivalent of fifty or so at most. Of course, it could be a pretty rough fifty, given what he was going through in Dimension Z.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
    It was retconned so that the super soldier serum had been keeping Steve young, not the ice--something which isn't as silly. That's also why he didn't age in Dimension Z.
    What's silly about the idea that aging would be suspended in cryogenic suspension along with all other bodily processes like breathing? There's a reason they actually do research into cryogenics and mimicking the hibernation process in the real world.

  6. #21
    Fantastic Member Dabrikishaw's Avatar
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    Eh, yeah I'm not a fan of this explanation either. I get it was done to allow Sam to become Captain America(temporarily) but it didn't need a retcon to do it.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Harpoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    What's silly about the idea that aging would be suspended in cryogenic suspension along with all other bodily processes like breathing? There's a reason they actually do research into cryogenics and mimicking the hibernation process in the real world.
    Freezing in the arctic sea =/= cryogenic suspension. Most people who fall into the arctic sea aren't conveniently preserved by the cold--it kills them instead.

    The serum being responsible for stopping his aging, not the ice, makes a lot more sense.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
    Freezing in the arctic sea =/= cryogenic suspension. Most people who fall into the arctic sea aren't conveniently preserved by the cold--it kills them instead.

    The serum being responsible for stopping his aging, not the ice, makes a lot more sense.
    The serum's responsible for him being able to survive the freezing process and come back from it, but the slowing down/stopping of all metabolic processes while he was in the ice was indeed the product of the cold temperatures.

    And even if it had been the serum, it was the serum preventing the aging process from happening in the first place by, again, slowing everything down, not constantly reversing it or 'holding it back'. Of course, that's the problem with all these stories where a longevity formula (other than a magical one, because different rules) is withdrawn, and Fury or whoever instantly ages all those 'cheated' years. The most that should happen, honestly, even in those cases, is that the person just starts aging normally from whatever point they stop taking the youth juice. But that wouldn't be as dramatic.

    In any case, Steve has lost the serum before (and yes, entirely, I suspect that the Cosmic Cube did at least as good a job of removing every trace of the stuff as the Iron Nail ever could) and not aged like this, so I suspect it's not even a matter of simply removing the serum, but the Iron Nail's attack was capable of artificially aging people even if they aren't 'supposed' to be really old chronologically, like an induced form of progeria.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member megaharrison's Avatar
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    It's not supposed to make sense. It was just an excuse to have Falcon replace him. Because "progressive".

  10. #25
    BANNED Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamlore View Post
    Is this any worse than killing a clone causes that body to disintegrate versus just being a regular dead body?
    Nope It is every bit as dumb

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Harpoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    The serum's responsible for him being able to survive the freezing process and come back from it, but the slowing down/stopping of all metabolic processes while he was in the ice was indeed the product of the cold temperatures.
    And now the serum is solely responsible for all of that. It's been retconned; Steve didn't age a day in Dimension Z, and Pym and Banner found it was the serum keeping him young.

    And even if it had been the serum, it was the serum preventing the aging process from happening in the first place by, again, slowing everything down, not constantly reversing it or 'holding it back'. Of course, that's the problem with all these stories where a longevity formula (other than a magical one, because different rules) is withdrawn, and Fury or whoever instantly ages all those 'cheated' years. The most that should happen, honestly, even in those cases, is that the person just starts aging normally from whatever point they stop taking the youth juice. But that wouldn't be as dramatic.
    It's comic book science. It's hard to say what removing this stuff should and shouldn't do.

    In any case, Steve has lost the serum before (and yes, entirely, I suspect that the Cosmic Cube did at least as good a job of removing every trace of the stuff as the Iron Nail ever could)
    Ah, but the Cosmic Cube operates on its user's desires. If the Red Skull even subconsciously wanted Steve to be depowered but not aged, then the Cube would do just that.

    so I suspect it's not even a matter of simply removing the serum, but the Iron Nail's attack was capable of artificially aging people even if they aren't 'supposed' to be really old chronologically, like an induced form of progeria.
    Pretty sure that the Iron Nail sucked the blood out of others without them ageing; Fury, Dugan, and Steve were the only ones that started ageing when he got at their blood because of the Infinity Formula in the former two and the Super Soldier Serum in the latter one.

    Maybe you're onto something, though. Maybe the way in which the Iron Nail sucked the serums out of those three (only partially in Fury and Dugan's case) caused the effects of losing the serums to accelerate. We've never seen Steve without the serum in the long term; he may have indeed begun ageing if given enough time.

    Regardless, the Iron Nail being solely responsible for Steve's ageing isn't Remender's intention; it's because of the complete loss of the serum itself.
    Last edited by Harpoon; 07-17-2014 at 08:35 PM.

  12. #27

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    I agree that Steve aging so rapidly didn't make a whole lot of sense, so I just try not to think about it. It's comic book science, so whatever.

  13. #28
    Junior Member Blind Otto's Avatar
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    What doesn't make sense is that Nick Fury thing.
    spoilers:
    I mean - as per Original Sin - isn't that a LMD? How do you age a LMD???
    end of spoilers

  14. #29
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
    It was retconned so that the super soldier serum had been keeping Steve young, not the ice--something which isn't as silly. That's also why he didn't age in Dimension Z.
    "Something which isn't as silly." Heheheh... uh huh... riiiiight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Otto View Post
    What doesn't make sense is that Nick Fury thing.
    spoilers:
    I mean - as per Original Sin - isn't that a LMD? How do you age a LMD???
    end of spoilers
    The LMD hasn't aged. That's the real guy.

  15. #30
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    "Something which isn't as silly." Heheheh... uh huh... riiiiight.


    The LMD hasn't aged. That's the real guy.
    plus there were dozens of lmds just tweak them for age as you go along.

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