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  1. #31
    Fantastic Member TruthAndJustice's Avatar
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    John Byrne has been very explicit that he wishes that he'd been allowed to make the changes he wanted to make within the established continuity, without a reboot. I think most of it wouldn't have been very hard. Close down the Fortress, kill all the Phantom Zone villains, have Luthor become a supposedly legit businessman, get rid of "Clark Kent, anchorman," have Lana (not Lois) learn that Clark and Superman are the same guy, destroy all non-green Kryptonite, have some Big Cosmic Thing happen so Superman can't fly even near lightspeed anymore, let alone travel forward and backward through time under his own power...

    There could've even been some minor retcons -- nobody knew that Superboy lived in Smallville except the Kents, Brainiac destroyed Kandor instead of shrinking it (OK, that's kind of major), the Kents died in some normal way than through "a fatal and rare tropical disease." (Drunk driver, maybe?)

    This would've been far less divisive than THE MAN OF STEEL. I think it would've been better, even though there are parts of MOS that I very much like.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    I guess they had their agenda with revamping Superman back then so a few things probably would have been inevitable, but I never really understood why there couldn't be at least a few other surviving Kryptonians, like Kara and a few of the most prominent Phantom Zoners(Zod, Jax-Ur, Faora).

  3. #33
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    The only think I'd change about Crisis On Infinite Earths (other than it being written by Wolfman and drawn by Perez, whose styles I really don't care for) is the amount of forethought DC had put into the aftermath.

  4. #34
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    I don't think I could find something to change for every era.

    John Byrne Era: Picking one thing is difficult because I think DC did a lot of stupid things post-crisis. but to pick one thing, I would not have taken all the Kryptonians apart from Superman out of continuity.

    DC Rebirth: I would have brought the trunks back sooner.
    Last edited by KC; 02-06-2018 at 01:30 PM.
    “Somewhere, in our darkest night, we made up the story of a man who will never let us down.”

    - Grant Morrison on Superman

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    The main thing for me would be the Byrne era. I am fine with the total reboot because Superman by the time of Crisis was a very stale character. Nothing short of a full on reboot was going to get the casual fans to give the book a look because honestly no one outside of the die hard fans cared at ALL about Superman in the late 70's and early 80's. The one thing I would change is Clark's ties to the Legion. I would have kept his time with the Legion, but that would have been the only time he was ever Superboy. On top of that each time he went back to his own time Saturn Girl would "fog" his memory so he would not remember much about the future unless he was in the future. When he was home in Smallville he would remember his friends but not many other details. Then when Clark was 17 or 18 Saturn Girl would put a mental block that would make him forget his adventures with the Legion until he was older and had already taken on the Superman title. They did that in the Superman and the Legion of Superheroes arc in Johns Action Comics run, and it to me was the perfect compromise.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    GOLDEN AGE: S&S gets to keep their rights or, at the very least, gets the same deal Kane and Marsten got. They also get a pension for the rest of their lives and what is essentially veto power over any idea they don't like.

    IN BETWEEN YEARS: Superboy is incorporated into his history immediately after being created. Most people don't know this but even though he was created in 1945, he wasn't recognized in the main books until the fifties. We'd also start a functioning continuity much sooner.

    SILVER AGE: Weisenger would either be severely reigned in or outright fired for the way he treats people. He may be responsible for a lot of the mythos but his behavior was unacceptable. Schwartz would probably take over earlier.

    BRONZE AGE: Let creators have more freedom. When Maggin wanted to advance the relationship he'd be allowed to keep it that way. That might have made the reboot unnecessary. And, as I said, I probably would have went out of my way to avoid the reboot altogether if at all possible since it created more problems than it solved. What I would do from that point on would depend on how that pans out.

    POST CRISIS ERA: If the reboot was unavoidable then I would probably design the reboot myself to avoid the problems that arose. And, if I'm being honest, I'd probably just throw the Legion under the bus for the bigger picture. The most I could do with them is he would be an inspiration but not a member. No Pocket Universe. I would entertain other ideas but ultimately, what would be kept would depend on how well it fits my vision. Power Girl would probably also be left behind as well. Or make her the new Supergirl with an origin that would probably be more like the Supergirl from TAS. But not likely. I'd probably just get rid of her. If we're going for a more realistic Superman, characters like Mxy would probably get gotten rid of as well. No more "goofy" characters. He'd have a more GA feel going after more street crime and gangsters. Luthor would probably be more of a mob boss type character. Yes, he'd have aliens and villains but it wouldn't be alien of the week stuff either.

    POST INFINITE CRISIS: This time was a mess altogether and I'm still not sure how to fix it. I'd probably do something like a much harder reboot than he actually got. He'd keep the marriage and death but his origin would be more of a less angsty version of Smallville. With flashbacks to his childhood and teen years in the backs of issues to clear elements of his history up. If there is a huge push for the Legion, he might be a costumed Superboy in the future but not around Smallville. Sort of like when Conner was a member. He could have his own Legion book which chronicles his adventures with them. But, again, there was so much stuff going on I'm not sure I'd be able to fix all of it.

    NEW 52: Hoo boy! No relationship with WW. No stupid collar or armor. If he's going to have a trunkless costume, it's going to look either more like the Smallville comic or the Eradicator from ROS. He'd be on the road to a relationship with Lois almost immediately. If the marriage is to be undone, then let's start the road back to that knowing full well that's what the fans want. Maybe keep at least Martha alive.
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  7. #37
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    I like the books that Schwartz edited but I don't think we'd get the same result with him editing Superman in the 1950s and 1960s. Maybe if he hired his friends Otto Binder and Edmond Hamilton just like Weisinger did. But this would take Julie off the other titles he edited at that time--so no Flash, Green Lantern, Batman, Atom, Elongated Man, Hawkman.

    Maybe Schwartz would still do the Justice League--albeit as a Superman spin-off group with a few different characters--Superman, Batman, Johnny Quick, Congorilla, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Supergirl and Elastic Lad.

    However, there's a more ready solution to replacing Mort Weisinger and that's Jack Schiff. Schiff was there already from the early 1940s into the 1960s--and he edited a good bulk of the Superman and Superboy stories. Mort and Jack both started out working as story editors for Whit Ellsworth. And after Jack Schiff, I'd probably pick Murray Boltinoff.

    Ideally, Vincent Sullivan would have stayed as editor. It seems like he was a stand up guy and might have dealt with Jerry and Joe more fairly--given he later gave them work at his Magazine Enterprises. But if he stayed, he would have had to put up with Donenfeld and Liebowitz--which was something Vin didn't want to do.

  8. #38
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
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    No trunks.

    Ever.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Honestly? There's very little I would change about any era. Even the stuff I dont like usually ends up getting re-imagined in some fun new way down the road.

    For the Byrne era.....limiting it to just one thing.....I'd let Byrne keep Clark's personality and the duality between "Clark" and "Superman" that had been developing through the late Silver into the Bronze Age. By the end of things, Clark Kent actually mattered to the story as a character, not just a plot device.

    Removing that "Clark is who I am" mindset would've made a lot of things fit in place easier, and removed a big point of contention between fans.

    I mean, I'd have loved to see Byrne work with the continuity of pre-Crisis and mold it into a more modern, contemporary shape. I'd have been okay with some minor-to-medium retcons and concepts/characters being written out to get us there. But completely changing the way Byrne had to approach the character is probably too big to call "just one thing."

    With the New52.....I think there were too many problems to fix the whole mess by changing just one. But I'd have liked to have seen more communication between Morrison and the writers on the Superman title. That might have helped establish a strong foundation from "origin" to "present day" and provided a road for other writers to follow. Probably wouldn't have changed much in the end though.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    For the Nu52 there are a lot of things the biggest though is leaving at least one of the Kents alive. Be it ma or pa. I hated that Morrison killed them both of just because "well that's the way it was in the golden age" crap. Clark just works better when he has a parent around to humanize him more.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Removing that "Clark is who I am" mindset would've made a lot of things fit in place easier, and removed a big point of contention between fans.
    I don't know how I forgot this, but at the time I posted I did forget this, so I change my answer to this.

    For the Nu52 there are a lot of things the biggest though is leaving at least one of the Kents alive. Be it ma or pa. I hated that Morrison killed them both of just because "well that's the way it was in the golden age" crap. Clark just works better when he has a parent around to humanize him more.
    I've never understood the humanizing argument. In the bulk of his classic history in which his parents were gone, he was well "humanized" and didn't lose a lick of their life lessons just because they were gone. Because they were around long enough to instill those lessons within him and their spirits lived on in him. That never faded. To me this argument only works if anyone ever redid the origin and have his parents die when he's still a child. If it were that early, then sure, them being gone would surely greatly affect the man he is to become. The whole point of the classic version and the way it worked though was that they died when he was old enough to have already learned the lessons they had to teach.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 02-06-2018 at 06:34 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  12. #42
    Bite Your Head Off, Man Deathscythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post

    If there is a huge push for the Legion, he might be a costumed Superboy in the future but not around Smallville. Sort of like when Conner was a member. He could have his own Legion book which chronicles his adventures with them. But, again, there was so much stuff going on I'm not sure I'd be able to fix all of it.
    Have you read Secret Origin? That's exactly what Johns did. Clark wore the Superboy uniform but operated at super-speed and was never seen. He wore the uniform and went by "Superboy" in the future with the Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    For the Nu52 there are a lot of things the biggest though is leaving at least one of the Kents alive. Be it ma or pa. I hated that Morrison killed them both of just because "well that's the way it was in the golden age" crap. Clark just works better when he has a parent around to humanize him more.
    Was this intended to be hilarious?

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    COIE and NEW52: No hard reboot.

    DCEU: Don't give the key of the franchise to a guy whose dream for decades was adapting Miller's Batman.

  14. #44
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But completely changing the way Byrne had to approach the character is probably too big to call "just one thing."
    It's summed up neat enough to call one thing, even if it would have changed every story fundamentally until maybe For Tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The whole point of the classic version and the way it worked though was that they died when he was old enough to have already learned the lessons they had to teach.
    Or rather, when their magical youth serum ran out and they caught a whiff of funky pirate treasure.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I've never understood the humanizing argument.
    Neither have I.

    Well, actually, I do. I used to be, in the dumb fan war between pre-and post-Crisis, firmly entrenched in the "post-" side. Wanted the Kents alive, didn't want any of that "Superman is (part of) who he really is" crap, and all the rest of it.

    Then I read the older material. And that changed my mind. I find most elements of the pre-Crisis approach much more enjoyable.

    I'd accept a compromise of having one of the Kents alive though.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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