Richard Grayson's Soulmate

[Restingvoice]

Gods I hope I'm wrong, the worst thing that DC could do to Dick is make him Robin again....but the second worst thing they could do is make him Batman.

Yeah I can't see his body and hair behind that cape and cowl

[Vinsanity]

Which one? Kendra or Shay?

I think I'd be all over that pairing (with either version of Hawkgirl/woman), except for the sense of the inevitable break-up because everyone knows that, at the end of the day, it's the Hawks. Actually, back when Kendra and Roy Harper were dating, I found myself really hating it because I knew that, eventually, Kendra would end up leaving Roy for Carter.

Im still hardcore Dick-Power Girl.....but I wouldn't necessarily be against Hawkgirl (or Jessica Cruz. I do like that idea too).

Go with Kendra I guess. I mean if we can have an Aqualad, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and all that jazz, might as well have a Hawkwoman and Hawkgirl and find a way to differentiate them.

[oasis1313]

I kind of like the idea of Dick having a super-girlfriend who won't be a constant damsel in distress like Shawn.

[Celgress]

I kind of like the idea of Dick having a super-girlfriend who won't be a constant damsel in distress like Shawn.

There is that too lol.

[oasis1313]

There is that too lol.

Somebody who can look after herself and make things more sizzly--Power Girl is an obvious choice.

[phantom1592]

Dick, Nightwing, Robin, is such a character grounded in street level stuff, that I always have trouble with Kori anywhere outside of Titans. If you want to have him date the orange skinned flaming space princess in a book dealing with gods demons and everything else... yah, fine.

But if you still want to keep Dick as a street level vigilante who's sometimes Batman and focus on detective skills and acrobatics... any girlfriend needs to be able to keep that secret identity too. She needs to be able to take off her costume and sit in the coffee shop undercover and that was never really Starfire. She was good in Titans... but once Dick became 'more' than just a member of the Titans... it didn't fit so well. Barbara could do that... heck, Power girl, Huntress, Hawkgirl... they could all do that. Starfire is one of the few in the DC universe who COULDN'T do that.

[byrd156]

Dick, Nightwing, Robin, is such a character grounded in street level stuff, that I always have trouble with Kori anywhere outside of Titans. If you want to have him date the orange skinned flaming space princess in a book dealing with gods demons and everything else... yah, fine.

But if you still want to keep Dick as a street level vigilante who's sometimes Batman and focus on detective skills and acrobatics... any girlfriend needs to be able to keep that secret identity too. She needs to be able to take off her costume and sit in the coffee shop undercover and that was never really Starfire. She was good in Titans... but once Dick became 'more' than just a member of the Titans... it didn't fit so well. Barbara could do that... heck, Power girl, Huntress, Hawkgirl... they could all do that. Starfire is one of the few in the DC universe who COULDN'T do that.

Grounded in the street level?

Dick out of everyone in the Bat-family is the most versatile or ungrounded characters. He founded the Teen Titans when he was a kid, the team with a super speedster, Amazon and Atlantean. He has more appearances in other team up books than most DC heroes have solo issues.

[phantom1592]

Grounded in the street level?

Dick out of everyone in the Bat-family is the most versatile or ungrounded characters. He founded the Teen Titans when he was a kid, the team with a super speedster, Amazon and Atlantean. He has more appearances in other team up books than most DC heroes have solo issues.

Yeah, but it always comes back to first sidekick ex-robin, trained by the world's greatest detective. He's been a lot of things to a lot of people, but the trippy space adventures haven't been his main selling point in years. Dixon's first Nightwing run in the 90's and Prodigal are really my favorite Dick Grayson stories.


Although... I'm not even sure about the 'most' ungrounded bat-family. Once Batman builds a mech suit to punch Darkseid in the face... we've jumped a few sharks there too :P

Unfortunately the 'bat-family' is a tie he'll never really be able to break... and I think that keeps him from getting TOO wild. Dick can't really get away with doing TOO much to reveal his identitiy to the world at large.... because he's tied to Batman, who's tied to the robins, who are tied to the batgirls... and once you realize that both Nightwing and Dick Grayson; Bruce Waynes adopted son, are both dating the orange alien princess... the house of cards starts wobbling.


When his only appearances were with the team, it wasn't that big a deal... but I just have a hard time picturing Starfire settling down in a place like Bludhaven and maintain a civilian identity....

[Oberon]

Someone say trip space adventures? Oh, look, there's a Bat-girl too.

[Starrius]

Dick, Nightwing, Robin, is such a character grounded in street level stuff, that I always have trouble with Kori anywhere outside of Titans. If you want to have him date the orange skinned flaming space princess in a book dealing with gods demons and everything else... yah, fine.

But if you still want to keep Dick as a street level vigilante who's sometimes Batman and focus on detective skills and acrobatics... any girlfriend needs to be able to keep that secret identity too. She needs to be able to take off her costume and sit in the coffee shop undercover and that was never really Starfire. She was good in Titans... but once Dick became 'more' than just a member of the Titans... it didn't fit so well. Barbara could do that... heck, Power girl, Huntress, Hawkgirl... they could all do that. Starfire is one of the few in the DC universe who COULDN'T do that.

Kory wasn't always orange skinned.
She was originally golden skinned.
She was that throughout the Wolfman run Titans comics (from 1980 to 1996)
Heck...even in the last comics of the Wolfman Titans run, her skin color seemed more brown than yellowish
She was golden skinned even into the early 2000s.

I don't like later depictions of Starfire. I don't think the capture the softness and innocence that George Perez's depictions of Starfire did.
I really like the tousled wavy hair look

My Dick/Kory thread at comic vine has a lot of comic pictures of the early years Starfire with golden colored skin
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/


I regards to the secret identity stuff, I posted about that



If I was editorial that wanted and planned for Dick and Kory to get back together, I would have it that Starfire goes back to having a secret identity as Kory Anders.

The things that I would change to do that is:

Change her orange skin back to the original golden skin which was chalked up as being a Mediterranean tan by her brief boyfriend Franklin and her being referred to as Tawny Vixen by Roy. This way, her skin has a natural human skin color.

Make her shorter. Her official height says 6'4. I'd change it to 6'0. In The New Teen Titans, Volume 1,issue #2, she has appeared shorter than Dick Grayson who is listed as 5'10 when they met up at the swimming pool in Garfield's mansion. There were early comic issues that had her around the same height or a little taller like when she was standing next to him like on her first date on panel shown in The New Teen Titans Volume 1, issue #26.

Change her hair back to the thick,wavy auburn hair but make it less bushy,thick,and less long than in the original so it still looks normal. Leave out the hair looking like it flames up. It's unnecessary.

Keep her light green alien eyes, but have her wear contacts lenses that give her normal looking eyes when she is disguised as human. She could get them from Star Labs. Hiding her eyes behind sunglasses like she did before doesn't seem practical. If she's back to having a career as a model, her eyes should be shown most of the time. When she is going to social events and meeting people, it's better for her eyes to be shown for eye contact is important in socializing and communicating with others.

This would be a way to not tell that Starfire and Kory Anders are one and the same and enable her to be with Dick without jeopardizing his secret identity and Batman's secret identity.

When I was reading the old comics, I felt the writer and artist did a lousy job of separating her Starfire identity from her Kory Anders identity with the extreme thick,bushy wavy hair that makes her stand out very much. Her hiding her alien eyes behind sunglasses did not seem effective to keep others from knowing that she's Starfire. Then they just said...the hell with it, the public knows she's Starfire. Then later on, they just made her skin color orange so it's all the way impossible for her to blend in with humans.

[oasis1313]

Kory wasn't always orange skinned.
She was originally golden skinned.
She was that throughout the Wolfman run Titans comics (from 1980 to 1996)
Heck...even in the last comics of the Wolfman Titans run, her skin color seemed more brown than yellowish
She was golden skinned even into the early 2000s.

I don't like later depictions of Starfire. I don't think the capture the softness and innocence that George Perez's depictions of Starfire did.
I really like the tousled wavy hair look

My Dick/Kory thread at comic vine has a lot of comic pictures of the early years Starfire with golden colored skin
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/


I regards to the secret identity stuff, I posted about that



If I was editorial that wanted and planned for Dick and Kory to get back together, I would have it that Starfire goes back to having a secret identity as Kory Anders.

The things that I would change to do that is:

Change her orange skin back to the original golden skin which was chalked up as being a Mediterranean tan by her brief boyfriend Franklin and her being referred to as Tawny Vixen by Roy. This way, her skin has a natural human skin color.

Make her shorter. Her official height says 6'4. I'd change it to 6'0. In The New Teen Titans, Volume 1,issue #2, she has appeared shorter than Dick Grayson who is listed as 5'10 when they met up at the swimming pool in Garfield's mansion. There were early comic issues that had her around the same height or a little taller like when she was standing next to him like on her first date on panel shown in The New Teen Titans Volume 1, issue #26.

Change her hair back to the thick,wavy auburn hair but make it less bushy,thick,and less long than in the original so it still looks normal. Leave out the hair looking like it flames up. It's unnecessary.

Keep her light green alien eyes, but have her wear contacts lenses that give her normal looking eyes when she is disguised as human. She could get them from Star Labs. Hiding her eyes behind sunglasses like she did before doesn't seem practical. If she's back to having a career as a model, her eyes should be shown most of the time. When she is going to social events and meeting people, it's better for her eyes to be shown for eye contact is important in socializing and communicating with others.

This would be a way to not tell that Starfire and Kory Anders are one and the same and enable her to be with Dick without jeopardizing his secret identity and Batman's secret identity.

When I was reading the old comics, I felt the writer and artist did a lousy job of separating her Starfire identity from her Kory Anders identity with the extreme thick,bushy wavy hair that makes her stand out very much. Her hiding her alien eyes behind sunglasses did not seem effective to keep others from knowing that she's Starfire. Then they just said...the hell with it, the public knows she's Starfire. Then later on, they just made her skin color orange so it's all the way impossible for her to blend in with humans.

Hey, Remember Snyder's Court of the Owls. If Batman has image inducers that can let Nightwing successfully pass for the Joker for a few days in Arkham Asylum, surrounded by all those psycho criminals, he could make Kory look like Etta Candy long enough for Dick to take her out to dinner. Or just have Nightwing+Starfire lay off the PDA and say she's dating Dick Grayson. Although really, people on Earth Prime are all morons because it'd be obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that Superman is Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne is Batman, etc etc etc. I think everyone just winks about it and says, "Oh, gee, Mr. Wayne--there's a robbery taking place! You should go somewhere private and call your friend Batman!" We've already suspended our systems of disbelief THIS far . . .

[Ascended]

Dick, Nightwing, Robin, is such a character grounded in street level stuff, that I always have trouble with Kori anywhere outside of Titans. If you want to have him date the orange skinned flaming space princess in a book dealing with gods demons and everything else... yah, fine.

But if you still want to keep Dick as a street level vigilante who's sometimes Batman and focus on detective skills and acrobatics... any girlfriend needs to be able to keep that secret identity too. She needs to be able to take off her costume and sit in the coffee shop undercover and that was never really Starfire. She was good in Titans... but once Dick became 'more' than just a member of the Titans... it didn't fit so well. Barbara could do that... heck, Power girl, Huntress, Hawkgirl... they could all do that. Starfire is one of the few in the DC universe who COULDN'T do that.

Well, that's not an issue for me because I don't *want* Nightwing grounded as a street level vigilante. I *want* Dick traveling in space, fighting super powered monsters in Slaughter Swamp, riding dinosaurs in the past, bartering with demons, and cavorting around the globe on crazy adventures.

Dick's history goes a lot deeper and farther than Gotham, and his adventures beyond the street level started long before the Titans, back when he'd have adventures with the World's Finest in the Silver Age, or sometimes just with Superman. Dick Grayson has never been a character who was limited just to the street level stuff until DC brought him back into the Bat office after his years away with the Titans. If there's any regression, it happened then. And I love Dixon as much as the next guy. I think I like his run more than most here, actually. But Nightwing was, and can be, more than a street level character. He's a Bat with the heart of a Super, he's in between those two worlds, and his narrative should reflect that.

[Restingvoice]

Well, that's not an issue for me because I don't *want* Nightwing grounded as a street level vigilante. I *want* Dick traveling in space, fighting super powered monsters in Slaughter Swamp, riding dinosaurs in the past, bartering with demons, and cavorting around the globe on crazy adventures.

Dick's history goes a lot deeper and farther than Gotham, and his adventures beyond the street level started long before the Titans, back when he'd have adventures with the World's Finest in the Silver Age, or sometimes just with Superman. Dick Grayson has never been a character who was limited just to the street level stuff until DC brought him back into the Bat office after his years away with the Titans. If there's any regression, it happened then. And I love Dixon as much as the next guy. I think I like his run more than most here, actually. But Nightwing was, and can be, more than a street level character. He's a Bat with the heart of a Super, he's in between those two worlds, and his narrative should reflect that.

Even when I know that it's really heard for me to imagine that, because for so long I associate Dick with Batman. Heck, anyone who started out within the Batman family I associate with Batman, and I associate Batman with realism based on the movies, Year One and so on. As much realism as it can be, because as much as I like Batman to be a fun superhero for kids, I can't deny the appeal of realistic dark detective story. Dick and the others are the extension of that.

Now, launching from that mindset, I already don't really like Batman joining the Justice League beyond acting as a tactician that stays on the satellite the whole time. That's how I think Batman in Justice League should be. Dick I think can be more hands on because he's a people person.

Jason too. The original Outlaws adventure, going to space and all that, I didn't like it. I think Jason is a very grounded character. His start in Under The Red Hood was about taking over Gotham underworld in a revenge plot. So hanging out with superheroes is not what I imagine him do.

I like the second Outlaws better because even though he still partners with meta, his job is to infiltrate Gotham underworld or they hang out with Suicide Squad. That's closer to the image of Jason I had in mind, that's defined by UTRH.

In the case of Dick, I know him more as Robin, skipped his NTT development, until he's already Nightwing post Batman in Gotham, so I know what he's capable of, where he's been, but my emotional connection to him is still very tied to Batman, especially with how his New 52 books are so close to Batman and Titans didn't exist.

Basically the only reason I slowly accepting the idea that Batman Family are part of the larger superhero world is because that's how they depicted in comics, but left on their own, say, if they make a movie or story that focus on their own, if they're a solo lead, then what I imagine is something similar to Batman being a detective in Gotham, because that is their origin, that is their base.

I guess TLDR how we view superheroes is defined by where and when we saw them. What we mostly saw them as, for as long as 10 to 20 years, and that can be entirely different each time.

At least Dick does. Robin. Nightwing Titans. Nightwing Bludhaven.

[Jackalope89]

My first, real, intro to Dick? This.



Him on the Teen Titans. Going on crazy adventures, hanging around metas and aliens left and right. And skipping over this time frame is a disservice to the character, as its when he transitioned to Nightwing, when he grew up and came into his own.

[oasis1313]

Even when I know that it's really heard for me to imagine that, because for so long I associate Dick with Batman. Heck, anyone who started out within the Batman family I associate with Batman, and I associate Batman with realism based on the movies, Year One and so on. As much realism as it can be, because as much as I like Batman to be a fun superhero for kids, I can't deny the appeal of realistic dark detective story. Dick and the others are the extension of that.

Now, launching from that mindset, I already don't really like Batman joining the Justice League beyond acting as a tactician that stays on the satellite the whole time. That's how I think Batman in Justice League should be. Dick I think can be more hands on because he's a people person.

Jason too. The original Outlaws adventure, going to space and all that, I didn't like it. I think Jason is a very grounded character. His start in Under The Red Hood was about taking over Gotham underworld in a revenge plot. So hanging out with superheroes is not what I imagine him do.

I like the second Outlaws better because even though he still partners with meta, his job is to infiltrate Gotham underworld or they hang out with Suicide Squad. That's closer to the image of Jason I had in mind, that's defined by UTRH.

In the case of Dick, I know him more as Robin, skipped his NTT development, until he's already Nightwing post Batman in Gotham, so I know what he's capable of, where he's been, but my emotional connection to him is still very tied to Batman, especially with how his New 52 books are so close to Batman and Titans didn't exist.

Basically the only reason I slowly accepting the idea that Batman Family are part of the larger superhero world is because that's how they depicted in comics, but left on their own, say, if they make a movie or story that focus on their own, if they're a solo lead, then what I imagine is something similar to Batman being a detective in Gotham, because that is their origin, that is their base.

I guess TLDR how we view superheroes is defined by where and when we saw them. What we mostly saw them as, for as long as 10 to 20 years, and that can be entirely different each time.

At least Dick does. Robin. Nightwing Titans. Nightwing Bludhaven.

Perhaps a lot has to do with the age of the fan. As a very elderly fan now, I grew up with Dick Grayson from 1958 onward; now he's like one of my grandchildren (soon to be one of my great-grandchildren). The "80-page giants" with lots of Golden Age stories readily and cheaply reprinted had Dick out in space, in other dimensions, hanging around with Superman--whatever, he took it all in stride like a true Citizen of the Universe. Wherever or whenever he was, he kicked butt. IMHO, many of his very best moments were in "Grayson"--he's never worried about not knowing which side of the road to drive on. I see Batman as FAR more tied to Gotham than Nightwing is to Bludhaven. Dick Grayson has always represented to me the embodiment of "Brave and Bold". He didn't drown in his sorrow and vengeance like Bruce is; he has the great heart of Superman--yet he is far more approachable and has to work a lot harder to accomplish the same goal--he is the best of all worlds as far as this unique genre goes.