Richard Grayson's Soulmate

**Ascended** · 09-23-2018, 06:37 PM

This is why I maintain that a brand new love interest is the most diplomatic and best solution. No one gets what they want, but everyone gets something new.

The fanbase is split on which ship they sail, the media adaptations are split, the comics try to walk the line with both but never commit, and at least one of the three characters usually ends up looking worse for it.

And the kicker is that DC can't really put Dick with either woman anyway. Babs is being used as a solo entity, which makes a relationship with Dick logistically difficult and it's harder to work narratives around it. And as long as DC is intent on downplaying Dick's connection to the Titans, they can't use Kori either.

So find someone totally new. Ya'll know I'm all about Nightwing-Power Girl (Kori's passion and drive, Babs' brains and wit), but I honestly believe the best thing for Dick, Babs, and Kori is for DC to let all of them move beyond this "will they-won't they" faux-relationship BS.

I don't even think Dick should be single for any great length of time, because the "love interest" role is a vacuum in Dick's mythos and leaving it empty is only going to invite more indecision from DC and more annoyance from the fans. DC lacks a vision for Nightwing, and leaving the love interest supporting role empty is taking away narrative options they could be using when figuring out how Nightwing works. It's not that Dick needs a woman, but his mythos kinda does.

Rac7d* · 09-23-2018, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ascended

This is why I maintain that a brand new love interest is the most diplomatic and best solution. No one gets what they want, but everyone gets something new.

The fanbase is split on which ship they sail, the media adaptations are split, the comics try to walk the line with both but never commit, and at least one of the three characters usually ends up looking worse for it.

And the kicker is that DC can't really put Dick with either woman anyway. Babs is being used as a solo entity, which makes a relationship with Dick logistically difficult and it's harder to work narratives around it. And as long as DC is intent on downplaying Dick's connection to the Titans, they can't use Kori either.

So find someone totally new. Ya'll know I'm all about Nightwing-Power Girl (Kori's passion and drive, Babs' brains and wit), but I honestly believe the best thing for Dick, Babs, and Kori is for DC to let all of them move beyond this "will they-won't they" faux-relationship BS.

I don't even think Dick should be single for any great length of time, because the "love interest" role is a vacuum in Dick's mythos and leaving it empty is only going to invite more indecision from DC and more annoyance from the fans. DC lacks a vision for Nightwing, and leaving the love interest supporting role empty is taking away narrative options they could be using when figuring out how Nightwing works. It's not that Dick needs a woman, but his mythos kinda does.

How can Dick start anything when DC can pull the rug out from under him any time like they keep doing. Pairing a chracters link their lives stories and book, and more people dont want to be ties down to the other. Powergirl might work becasue she has no home, but someone of her stature wrecks the world of batman

**oasis1313** · 09-23-2018, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rac7d*

How can Dick start anything when DC can pull the rug out from under him any time like they keep doing. Pairing a chracters link their lives stories and book, and more people dont want to be ties down to the other. Powergirl might work becasue she has no home, but someone of her stature wrecks the world of batman

Stature? Don't get your meaning here. Thanks!

**WonderNight** · 09-23-2018, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rac7d*

How can Dick start anything when DC can pull the rug out from under him any time like they keep doing. Pairing a chracters link their lives stories and book, and more people dont want to be ties down to the other. Powergirl might work becasue she has no home, but someone of her stature wrecks the world of batman

forget the world of Batman, that's dicks biggest problem and why I don't like dick/babs. Babs limits I'm to just Batman's sidekick (robin 8n black in blue).

Dick will never be able to move forward as long as his world has to fit with in batman's rules ( like a son still living in dads house). How many DC characters with there own books has to have there love interest fit into another character's world?

Dick needs some room form Batman so he can have room to grow and let his wings out and that's not going to happen with babs.

**Jackalope89** · 09-23-2018, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by oasis1313

Stature? Don't get your meaning here. Thanks!

She's a big name character, and being in a relationship with Dick, means that even a place like Bludhaven would end up more like Metropolis than Gotham.

In short; you take Power Girl, stick her in a city/place that doesn't really have anyone to counter her, and all of a sudden, there is no real tension because she can over power even Blockbuster (Dick's most powerful villain) without any effort.

However, should things escalate in Bludhaven, maybe getting its own "Lex Luthor" (so to speak), then perhaps Power Girl would work there.

Rac7d* · 09-24-2018, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by WonderNight

forget the world of Batman, that's dicks biggest problem and why I don't like dick/babs. Babs limits I'm to just Batman's sidekick (robin 8n black in blue).

Dick will never be able to move forward as long as his world has to fit with in batman's rules ( like a son still living in dads house). How many DC characters with there own books has to have there love interest fit into another character's world?

Dick needs some room form Batman so he can have room to grow and let his wings out and that's not going to happen with babs.

Nightwing , Dick would be dick if he turned away from batman the batfamily
For him to remove himself is to ask him to not be himself

what I mean is characters like Superman can visit Gotham, but they cant stay
thease issues can be done again with a visit from Kory or Karen

**Vinsanity** · 09-24-2018, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Ascended

This is why I maintain that a brand new love interest is the most diplomatic and best solution. No one gets what they want, but everyone gets something new.

The fanbase is split on which ship they sail, the media adaptations are split, the comics try to walk the line with both but never commit, and at least one of the three characters usually ends up looking worse for it.

And the kicker is that DC can't really put Dick with either woman anyway. Babs is being used as a solo entity, which makes a relationship with Dick logistically difficult and it's harder to work narratives around it. And as long as DC is intent on downplaying Dick's connection to the Titans, they can't use Kori either.

So find someone totally new. Ya'll know I'm all about Nightwing-Power Girl (Kori's passion and drive, Babs' brains and wit), but I honestly believe the best thing for Dick, Babs, and Kori is for DC to let all of them move beyond this "will they-won't they" faux-relationship BS.

I don't even think Dick should be single for any great length of time, because the "love interest" role is a vacuum in Dick's mythos and leaving it empty is only going to invite more indecision from DC and more annoyance from the fans. DC lacks a vision for Nightwing, and leaving the love interest supporting role empty is taking away narrative options they could be using when figuring out how Nightwing works. It's not that Dick needs a woman, but his mythos kinda does.

Jesse Chambers. Just saying.

**byrd156** · 09-24-2018, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

Jesse Chambers. Just saying.

Power Girl, Jesse, it seems like Blonde is the way to go right now. Either would work for me.

**Korath** · 09-24-2018, 02:49 AM

You know... why having Power-Girl in Dick's life would be a bad thing, exactly ? he's his own guy, and I think he can prove himself a great superhero in other ways than being punched almost to death and punching peoples almost to death all the time. Dick's the optimistic Robin, the ever-adventurous Wonder.

Pair him with Power-Girl, and have them explore the cosmos ! have Dick be the down to Earth and yet always marvelled character while PG is the Cosmic player but jaded and cynical. I would actually love a Relationship between two heroes where it isn't just a case of Hawkman and Hawgirl (mostly same power set, same identity but Hawkman being usually the household name) or Aquaman and Mera, the two mighty peoples with different but extremely vast, powers.

Pair Dick and Kori, or Dick and PG and displays how while the woman is far stronger than him, she doesn't actually smother him but let him be himself, only the best himself he can be, and he does the same to her.

Come on, if we can think of things like that, I'm pretty sure DC writers could to, and there is a market for that sort of thing I think.

Edit : and I know that Diana and Steve are supposed to be that archetype... but quite frankly, I find it not working because Steve is in that awkard position where he is a soldier -albeit a good one- but not a Superhero, meaning that he's good but still "average" compared to even just well-trained costumed vigilante, which leads to a lot of conundrum. Plus, there is always -for me- the aftertaste of him litteraly being the first Man Diana saw. I don't really like the idea that she would fall in love like that at first sight with a Man, coming from her society.

**WonderNight** · 09-24-2018, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Korath

You know... why having Power-Girl in Dick's life would be a bad thing, exactly ? he's his own guy, and I think he can prove himself a great superhero in other ways than being punched almost to death and punching peoples almost to death all the time. Dick's the optimistic Robin, the ever-adventurous Wonder.

Pair him with Power-Girl, and have them explore the cosmos ! have Dick be the down to Earth and yet always marvelled character while PG is the Cosmic player but jaded and cynical. I would actually love a Relationship between two heroes where it isn't just a case of Hawkman and Hawgirl (mostly same power set, same identity but Hawkman being usually the household name) or Aquaman and Mera, the two mighty peoples with different but extremely vast, powers.

Pair Dick and Kori, or Dick and PG and displays how while the woman is far stronger than him, she doesn't actually smother him but let him be himself, only the best himself he can be, and he does the same to her.

Come on, if we can think of things like that, I'm pretty sure DC writers could to, and there is a market for that sort of thing I think.

Edit : and I know that Diana and Steve are supposed to be that archetype... but quite frankly, I find it not working because Steve is in that awkard position where he is a soldier -albeit a good one- but not a Superhero, meaning that he's good but still "average" compared to even just well-trained costumed vigilante, which leads to a lot of conundrum. Plus, there is always -for me- the aftertaste of him litteraly being the first Man Diana saw. I don't really like the idea that she would fall in love like that at first sight with a Man, coming from her society.

Don't get me started on the awesome dynamic and epic adventures dick and Diana could have! But first hell would need to freeze over while pig's are flying backwards.

**Ascended** · 09-24-2018, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Rac7d*

How can Dick start anything when DC can pull the rug out from under him any time like they keep doing. Pairing a chracters link their lives stories and book, and more people dont want to be ties down to the other. Powergirl might work becasue she has no home, but someone of her stature wrecks the world of batman

Sure, none of it matters (not just the love interest, but any of it) as long as DC is willing to throw Dick under the bus for the benefit of other properties and characters.

But at some point, DC is going to have to figure their sh*t out with Nightwing, decide what they want him to be and how they want to get there. They seem quite content to leave him where he is, where he's just an attache of the Bat IP, but even if they just view him as an extension of Batman, they still need to make his solo profitable in the long-term, which means picking a direction and building some sort of stable mythos around him.

Originally Posted by Jackalope89

She's a big name character, and being in a relationship with Dick, means that even a place like Bludhaven would end up more like Metropolis than Gotham.

And that's a bad thing?

Nightwing *doesnt* have to be a lesser version of Batman. Dick's got a lot more to his character than just Gotham stuff. And he might benefit greatly from a wider scope.

Additionally, a love interest like Karen (or Jesse Quick) or Kori or some other superhuman doesn't have to throw the setting's focus off either. We're talking about a relationship, not a sidekick. Just because they're dating doesnt mean Nightwing and Power Girl/Jesse Quick/Starfire/whoever are running around together constantly. Nightwing might spend his night fighting street crime, while PG is dealing with Per Degaton with the JSA. They can get together for dinner afterwards.

Batman has superhuman friends and co-workers but that doesn't impact Gotham. Nightwing can have a superhuman love interest without that impacting Bludhaven (or wherever).

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

Jesse Chambers. Just saying.

Yeah, I could see that. Jesse would be cool, but isn't she married to Hourman?

**Starrius** · 09-24-2018, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ascended

This is why I maintain that a brand new love interest is the most diplomatic and best solution. No one gets what they want, but everyone gets something new.

The fanbase is split on which ship they sail, the media adaptations are split, the comics try to walk the line with both but never commit, and at least one of the three characters usually ends up looking worse for it.

And the kicker is that DC can't really put Dick with either woman anyway. Babs is being used as a solo entity, which makes a relationship with Dick logistically difficult and it's harder to work narratives around it. And as long as DC is intent on downplaying Dick's connection to the Titans, they can't use Kori either.

So find someone totally new. Ya'll know I'm all about Nightwing-Power Girl (Kori's passion and drive, Babs' brains and wit), but I honestly believe the best thing for Dick, Babs, and Kori is for DC to let all of them move beyond this "will they-won't they" faux-relationship BS.

I don't even think Dick should be single for any great length of time, because the "love interest" role is a vacuum in Dick's mythos and leaving it empty is only going to invite more indecision from DC and more annoyance from the fans. DC lacks a vision for Nightwing, and leaving the love interest supporting role empty is taking away narrative options they could be using when figuring out how Nightwing works. It's not that Dick needs a woman, but his mythos kinda does.

I agree with you.
I even point out in the post that the Dick relationship fans are strongly split between Dick/Kory fans and Dick/Barbara fans

My main point is that Dick/Barbara has been elevated at Dick/Kory's expense from damaging retcons and making it out that Barbara is the woman that Dick always loved and Kory never was but just a woman that Dick settled for.
Kory is made out to be the bad alien slut that got in good girl Barbara's way of getting with Dick, and that is so further from the truth.

Batoffice writers and some fans try to make out that Dick/Kory was just based on attraction and lust when it was based on love and caring.
You got one guy here that straight up states that they're impulsive love which is ridiculous. Their relationship and love was developed slowly and gradually 2 years in the Wolfman run, New Teen Titans. It took Kory getting kidnapped by Komand'r and the Gordanians and taken to the Citadel and her looking like she was dead after being beaten and tortured for Dick to admit his romantic love feelings for Kory and they got into a relationship soon after that.
Like any comic book couple, they had their ups and downs with serious problems. All the comic couples did.
I have seen Dick/Barbara fans or anti-Dick/Kory fans bring that up to say why Dick/Kory is not a good relationship. They seem to overlook the good and just focus on the bad.
I pointed out that Peter Parker aka Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson had serious issues in their marriage, and they are one of the most popular and iconic couples in comic book history. They weren't even a couple when Dick and Kory became a couple in 1982. Mary Jane turned down Peter's first marriage proposal in 1977, and then she was out of comics until 1982 when Peter was in a relationship with Felicia Hardy aka Black Cat. Peter and Felicia were a couple until 1985 ,and Dick and Kory were still in a relationship at the time. Peter and Mary Jane weren't back in a relationship until they got married in 1987. Dick and Kory actually resumed their relationship just one month before Peter and Mary Jane got married after being apart for 17 months.
Now, Peter and Mary Jane are back together as a couple in the comics 11 years after they were broken up in the One More Day storyline.
Dick/Kory was one of the most popular and iconic comic book couples in the 1980s and 1990s.
Bat office had to work very hard to diminish Dick/Kory to build up Dick/Barbara.

There is comic page where it shows what made Dick dick fall in love with Kory:

It wasn't Starfire's beauty that made me fall in love with her.....
It was her freedom!
I mean the freedom to feel at home with even her strongest emotions..
The one kind of freedom that Batman wouldn't allow.
That's what I was longing for--
And that's what Kory slowly taught me to embrace!
VpkSVsC.jpg

I agree with your points about a new love interest for Dick, but I am not sure how that's going to work
maybe they can build her up and make her the love of his life and then he will made to say that the only woman that he ever loved is that new love interest
then Dick/Barbara fans will know what the Dick/Kory fans feel like when their pairing gets degraded with retcons and sweeping history under the rug.

My other point was that Dick/Kory fanbase didn't come out just because of the Teen Titans cartoon show from the 2000s
Teen Titans cartoon didn't lead to the popularity of Dick and Kory as a couple.
They were already very popular because of the The Wolfman run 1980s,1990s comics.
I feel that Dick/Kory fanbase is being underestimated.

**Ascended** · 09-24-2018, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Starrius

I agree your points about a new love interest for Dick, but I am not sure how that's going to work
maybe they can build her up and make her the love of his life and then he will made to say that the only woman that he ever loved is that new love interest
then Dick/Barbara fans will know what the Dick/Kory fans feel like when their pairing gets degraded with retcons and sweeping history under the rug.

I really dont want to see either ship get crapped on by DC. Yeah, us Kori-Dick fans have seen that dynamic undervalued and written off and it's insulting, but doing the same thing to the "other" side isn't going to help anyone, especially the characters.

I mean how it's *probably* going to work is DC will keep teasing the Babs/Dick thing, occasionally throwing a larger-media Kori/Dick pairing at us (like they do) and nothing will come of anything. Each new writer will introduce a new potential love interest, only to see that love interest get tossed aside with the next creative team.

But how it *could* happen, and how it *should* happen, is for Dick, Babs, and Kori to all get a chance to find closure and move on. Then, after a (very) short time single, introduce the new love interest to us; someone who is vetted by editorial, creators, and management, with an eye towards building something long term rather than chasing the short-term sales spike. All of this, of course, should be just one piece of a larger long-term approach and plan for the entire Nightwing character, designed to capitalize on his marketable potential and round the mythos out into something that, while still connected to the Bat, can stand on its own.

And Babs and Kori both need new, viable love interests brought in as well, to help facilitate everyone moving on to new things and getting away from what has become toxic shipping.

**Starrius** · 09-24-2018, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ascended

I really dont want to see either ship get crapped on by DC. Yeah, us Kori-Dick fans have seen that dynamic undervalued and written off and it's insulting, but doing the same thing to the "other" side isn't going to help anyone, especially the characters.

I mean how it's *probably* going to work is DC will keep teasing the Babs/Dick thing, occasionally throwing a larger-media Kori/Dick pairing at us (like they do) and nothing will come of anything. Each new writer will introduce a new potential love interest, only to see that love interest get tossed aside with the next creative team.

But how it *could* happen, and how it *should* happen, is for Dick, Babs, and Kori to all get a chance to find closure and move on. Then, after a (very) short time single, introduce the new love interest to us; someone who is vetted by editorial, creators, and management, with an eye towards building something long term rather than chasing the short-term sales spike. All of this, of course, should be just one piece of a larger long-term approach and plan for the entire Nightwing character, designed to capitalize on his marketable potential and round the mythos out into something that, while still connected to the Bat, can stand on its own.

And Babs and Kori both need new, viable love interests brought in as well, to help facilitate everyone moving on to new things and getting away from what has become toxic shipping.

I agree with you on all that.

**Starrius** · 09-24-2018, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by WonderNight

forget the world of Batman, that's dicks biggest problem and why I don't like dick/babs. Babs limits I'm to just Batman's sidekick (robin 8n black in blue).

Dick will never be able to move forward as long as his world has to fit with in batman's rules ( like a son still living in dads house). How many DC characters with there own books has to have there love interest fit into another character's world?

Dick needs some room form Batman so he can have room to grow and let his wings out and that's not going to happen with babs.

Yeah...it seems that Dick has been going backwards after the Wolfman Titans run

he even took the Batman role more than once
He was Batman when Bruce was thought to be dead
heck.. he was Batman just recently while Bruce had jury duty

It's like he will always be in Batman's shadow

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