Richard Grayson's Soulmate

[Starrius]

Bruce has image inducers, Why not make Kory look like a statuesque Earth woman instead of Dick having to disguise himself?

I didn't know Bruce had image inducers. How do they work?


from what I gathered from reading the 1980 - 1996 Titans comics,

Kory actually had a secret identity as Kory Anders which is derived from her name, Koriand'r.

She was a fashion model at the time.

She originally was gold-skinned and not like in the 14 KT way like she is glittering.

In New Teen Titans #16, her brief boyfriend Franklin Crandall chalked up her complexion as being a Mediterranean tan.

In New Teen Titans #32, Roy called her "Tawny Vixen"


She wore sunglasses when going around as a civilian, and that included her dates with Dick
In her first onpanel date with Dick in New Teen Titans #26, They were going to a Broadway show at night and Kory was in a dress and had sunglasses on.
In New Teen Titans, Volume 2, Issue #35, they are dancing with each other in a nightclub. Kory had brought up about Dick moving in with her. Kory was in a dress with sunglasses on.


It seems obvious Kory's skin color was one that helped her blend in with humans and have a secret identity as long as she covered her eyes.


I understand that Kory is listed as 6'4 and Dick is listed as 5'10.

It seemed that in the earlier comics, there was less height difference.

Kory has been depicted as the same height or a little taller than Dick

even shorter than Dick


Their height differences have been much different in the past
In Teen Titans issue #2, they talked to each other up close and was compliment each other their looks at Garfield's mansion swimming pool. Kory was wearing a bikini like Donna was wearing, and Dick had swim trunks on. Dick was taller than Kory and was looking down a little to look into her eyes. This was their first interaction with each other as civilians.
their first onpanel date in New Teen Titans issue #26, they were almost the same height when standing next to each other with arms locked...Kory looked slightly taller than Dick, and she usually wears high heels when wearing civilian clothes



With her being orange skin now, it's impossible for her to blend in with humans and have a secret identity like she was able to do when she had a golden skin that looked like a Mediterranean tan

I am multiracial person with light brown skin with golden overtones myself.


I don't think being a fashion model while having to wear sunglasses to maintain a secret identity is realistic..... even with golden skin.


If she didn't use Bruce's image inducer, special contact lenses to give her human looking eyes would have helped her look human though

[Starrius]

Dick and Kory were originally intended to become happily married in New Titans #100.



Originally, writer/artist Art Thibert was going to do a Nightwing mini-series that would run in 1992, concurrently with New Titans #93-99.

The series, co-written with Pamela Winesette, was about an alien invasion of Earth that led to Starfire being captured and Nightwing has to save her. The main point of the series was to establish Nightwing as an extremely competent hero, and to do so on the largest of scales - in front of the entire superhero community.

At the end of the series, Dick would have a newfound confidence and would ask Kory to marry him, she’d accept, and this would all lead into New Titans #100, which would be the marriage of Dick and Kory, which would be handled much like Donna Troy and Terry Long’s marriage in Tales of the New Teen Titans #50.

The editor Jonathan Peterson, left DC for Image Comics in 1992. Thibert ended up dropping both series to ALSO go to Image Comics.
The new editors instead had New Titans writer Marv Wolfman have a wedding ceremony go awry in New Titans #100 (the minister was murdered by a newly-evil Raven) and the character of Nightwing had a bit of a delay on his road to prominence.


Wizard Interview:
Art Thibert on the Nightwing Mini-Series

Art Thibert: I’ve never pledged my allegiance to a company, but to a person or an editor – someone I liked or felt comfortable with. Mike Carlin, the Superman editor, is a person I’ve always looked up to, and he did a lot for me in my early career. That’s why I agreed to stay on the Superman books, even if it’s only covers. I really like Bob Harras; I think he does a tremendous job. I really like Jonathan Peterson at DC, with whom I’ve had a long-lasting relationship – even though I’ve never had anything come out from his office. That’s why I’m doing Nightwing for him, coming out in December.

Wizard: As long as you brought it up, is Nightwing still in process?

Art Thibert:It’s still in process, now; after I finish X-Men #13, then Pamela Winesette, who is co-writing with me, and I will be starting on it full time. We already have the basic plot break-down done for the four issues; next I’ll start penciling, then we’ll start scripting together.

Wizard: This is your first real writing assignment?

Art Thibert: Yeah – I get back into pencilling – and somebody I’m writing, too! Am I a nut or what?

Wizard: Depends on how good you think you are.

Art Thibert: We’ll see.

Wizard: You’re tying into a line of books that have always been viewed as pretty writer-driven. Mary Wolfman has been the motivating force on the Titans material for so long.

Art Thibert: He still is. At the beginning, I was a little skeptical, because what Pam and I were proposing was a plan to really shake up the character of Nightwing. At one point, I went out to lunch with Marv, to get his OK and his blessing. He was all for it; he was really excited about it. I hope we live up to the tradition.

Wizard: What draws you to Nightwing?

Art Thibert: It was a major challenge. Jonathan said he had an idea to launch his whole Titans invasion, and asked if I’d be interested in Nightwing. I said I’d get back to him, because I had to figure out if I had any affection for him and what I could bring to him. As I talked to Pam about it, we started coming up with ideas; it was amazing how we started going nuts with plans for a character I thought I had no thoughts about. So I told Jonathan I’d do it if Pam and I could write it.

He wasn’t sure and asked us to send in a sample script and he thought it was great. It was official this time last year, so it’s been a year in the making. We got carte blanche to mess with the character – new costumes for both him and Starfire. Basically, we want to redefine Nightwing for the ‘90s. Bring him out of the “disco Elvis” look, at Pam calls it. We’ll give him some high-tech equipment, things like that.

Wizard: With the high profile you’ll get from the X-Men and then the Nightwing project, how do you envision your future?

Art Thibert: Marvel has offered me the ongoing Cable series, to start in the summer of ‘93, scripted by Fabian Nicieza. That gives us time to get some material in drawer, so to speak.

Wizard: Do you ever see yourself in the same position as the Image founders were when they made the jump.?

Art Thibert: It’s hard to say. For me, if I’m happy with what I’m doing, that’s what counts. The Nightwing series is a labor of love and I have an affection for Cable. If it works out that I get to that level and the readers like what I’m doing, it could happen. I’m just doing it for a kick right now. I don’t think of it in those terms.

Editor Jonathan Peterson on the Nightwing Mini-Series:

TTC: Were the creators lined up or did you seek them out?

JP: I basically called in favors. I called up friends, and one of the people I called was Art Thibert. I met Art when he first came to New York, [when he was] first breaking into comics. In fact, one of his earliest pencil jobs was for Barbara Kesel back when she was editing both New Teen Titans and Titans Spotlight, if you remember that title. Art drew an issue centering on Aqualad. In the case of Art, I really wanted him to be on “my team,” so to speak.

Here is – or I should say “was” – my comic editorial philosophy. I say “was” since now I’m working in Hollywood towards other goals these days. But basically, when I was editing, my core belief was 1) what I said before. Have fun. If you have fun it’ll show in the books, and that’s good. 2) To have fun… work with people you like. I’d rather work with a lesser talent that I can get along with and try to editorially shape or groom than to work with a “big name” comic star who’s such a headache, you hate going into the office.

Art was doing more stuff for Marvel, but he started at DC, so I called him up to say, “What would get you back to DC?” and I knew he was a big Batman fan, so I dangled the idea of Nightwing as part of that. I said to Art, “I have an idea. We’ve given Deathstroke his own book, and now I want Nightwing to get the next spin-off.” Well, Art loved the idea and asked if he and his wife Pamela, who wanted to write and work with Art, could have the book, and I said, “Dude! Why do you think I’m calling you!” and he said, “Oh man, count me in! Is this gonna be cool with Marv though? I hear he’s pretty protective about the characters.” I said “Well, he’s really having fun these days. He’s a real team player. And no, I haven’t told him yet, but I will now!” [laughs]

So I sat down with Art, and we discussed what we would do. Looking at my master game plan, I basically told Art that I wanted to push Dick and Kory along, that it would be his job to do that, in an initial miniseries. Art went off to talk to Pamela, and came back and said “How far can we push them?” I said “How do you mean?” and it was Art and Pamela who then said “Well, can we marry them, so the end of our trial mini has some real weight?” And I just lit up over that. I said “Yes! That’s it. That’s what we need to do. Go all out! Good plan!”

[…]

TTC: So you tossed out these ideas and weaved them together, knowing the endpoint was Deathstroke killing Jericho. A bit of reverse plotting?

JP: We actually even knew one step further. We were actually ultimately building to New Titans #100, which was two steps beyond. Phase One was “Titans Hunt.” We kill Jericho, get a real Wildebeest and some other new characters like Pantha. Phase Two is dealing with the idea [that] they are mature. Let’s make the New Titans kick-ass adults. That was when I turned to Art as the lynchpin, to do a Nightwing book. As part of that, I wanted to push the Dick and Kory romance along. I thought that had gotten too stale. I mean, it was just out there, but not really going anywhere. So to me, it was like telling Nightwing and Kory, “Crap or get off the pot.” [laughs] We wanted the endpoint to be that Nightwing would actually marry Starfire in New Titans # 100, because we could do that. There was a Robin in Batman, so it didn’t matter. I thought it would be like marrying Reed and Sue in Fantastic Four. That was a momentous occasion, so let’s build to it.

So I turned to Art. I wanted him to do a Nightwing six issue mini-series right around New Titans # 93. It’ll ship with New Titans up until New Titans # 99, at which point Art could have Nightwing proposing to Starfire in the last issue, and then issue # 100 would be the wedding issue. That was endpoint two.

Then there was phase three. I wanted to get the Teen Titans back, so I explained my whacked out idea. I really wanted Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Changeling, Raven, Starfire and Cyborg back to what they were originally, so I wanted to do an alternate dimension or timeline, and I turned to Kevin and said “You get to launch an all-new Titans book and design them from the ground up.” Not only that, but this alternate universe would have an alternate young Robin, and alternate young Starfire and all the rest. The plan for Team Titans was a secret one. With the first Team Titans Annual, or at the end of the first 12 issues, I told Kevin he would then be relaunching the Teen Titans with alternate versions of the core-seven members.

http://www.titanstower.com/nightwing...es-plans-1991/

[oasis1313]

Thanks for posting this, I'd forgotten about it . Thibert did some pretty artwork for it. We could use some enthusiasm like that.

[bishopcruz]

Can I just say I really like both for different reasons? They really both fill out two different archetype relationships really well. DickBabs is the two best friends with chemestry growing apart then coming back together to fall love each other over time... it's a tried and true story... and it's been seeded since at least Batman family. Say what you will, the stuff Dixon did with them in Nightwing and BOP worked... and in many ways what the Animated Series did for them cemented my love for the ship as well. Hell, the Birds of PRey #8 cover is probably one of THE most iconic romantic images in superhero comics. It's classic... it's touching, and the build in the Birds of Prey series over time just worked incredibly well. Was it the same as the Kory relationship? No. But it was still great.

Dick/Kory was a different type of story. It was more the one you meet in college and changes your life. Which makes sense as I beleive Perez mentioned that he based a lot of the interactions between the couple on him and his wife. It's a great relationship, iconic for the time and Wolfman/Perez still choke me up at times with the writing for the duo all these years later. Dick and Kory is an epic love story... filled with melodrama... it's nearly operatic at times. I friggen love it.

There is honestly nothing wrong with either of them. I understand the frustation of the Dick/Kory fans. I do... but the problem is... Nightwing basically existed separate from the Bat Family for nearly a decade which left Dick as the leader of a superhero team, fighting aliens, demons and all sorts of other stuff. In that situation Kory works perfectly as a romantic interest.

She works great in that context. Barbara works great in the context of the bat family. But Kory would feel at odds with Buldhaven, and Barbara just doesn't seem like the demon fighting type. It's kind of similar to how Batman and Wonder Woman are a great ship in the context of the Justice League and ONLY the Justice League, while if they were dating in the main Batman book it would seem odd and out of place... there he's better with someone like Selina, Talia, or Silver.

[oasis1313]

Maybe bring Silver back in a younger version for Dick?

[Vinsanity]

Maybe bring Silver back in a younger version for Dick?

I am okay with this.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm curious if DickxStarfire is gonna be a thing in Titans or are they gonna subvert expectations and not have them be a thing?

[Starrius]

I'm curious if DickxStarfire is gonna be a thing in Titans or are they gonna subvert expectations and not have them be a thing?

They are not going to subvert expectations


Dick/Kory will be happening in Titans show.
There was a 2nd trailer of them of them lying down and kissing.
I thought it was going to be a slow burn like it was in the comics and cartoon show.


Brandon Thwaites on Robin/Starfire:
"Well...we come together basically as a team to protect the kids and they come together and form a relationship.
She doesn't know who she is, and Robin doesn't really know who he wants to be. They are kinda helping each other find that."

[Starrius]

Can I just say I really like both for different reasons? They really both fill out two different archetype relationships really well. DickBabs is the two best friends with chemestry growing apart then coming back together to fall love each other over time... it's a tried and true story... and it's been seeded since at least Batman family. Say what you will, the stuff Dixon did with them in Nightwing and BOP worked... and in many ways what the Animated Series did for them cemented my love for the ship as well. Hell, the Birds of PRey #8 cover is probably one of THE most iconic romantic images in superhero comics. It's classic... it's touching, and the build in the Birds of Prey series over time just worked incredibly well. Was it the same as the Kory relationship? No. But it was still great.

Dick/Kory was a different type of story. It was more the one you meet in college and changes your life. Which makes sense as I beleive Perez mentioned that he based a lot of the interactions between the couple on him and his wife. It's a great relationship, iconic for the time and Wolfman/Perez still choke me up at times with the writing for the duo all these years later. Dick and Kory is an epic love story... filled with melodrama... it's nearly operatic at times. I friggen love it.

There is honestly nothing wrong with either of them. I understand the frustation of the Dick/Kory fans. I do... but the problem is... Nightwing basically existed separate from the Bat Family for nearly a decade which left Dick as the leader of a superhero team, fighting aliens, demons and all sorts of other stuff. In that situation Kory works perfectly as a romantic interest.

She works great in that context. Barbara works great in the context of the bat family. But Kory would feel at odds with Buldhaven, and Barbara just doesn't seem like the demon fighting type. It's kind of similar to how Batman and Wonder Woman are a great ship in the context of the Justice League and ONLY the Justice League, while if they were dating in the main Batman book it would seem odd and out of place... there he's better with someone like Selina, Talia, or Silver.

Thank you for input, and I agree with pretty much all of it.


The issue that I have with Dick/Barbara is that damaging retcons were done to elevate Dick/Barbara at the expense of degrading Dick/Kory into lust.
Every Batman office writer after Dixon belittled Dick's past relationship with Kory like it was just a fling.
Dixon had Dick say that Kory answered a need that he had at the time for affection.
Kory has been made out to be the heartless alien slut that got in Barbara's way of being with Dick.
Dick has been depicted as always holding out for Barbara, and Kory has been depicted as a second choice.
Batman office writers even have Dick declare that the only woman that he ever loved was Barbara which strongly contradicts what had been going on between him and Kory in the comic pages from 1980 to 1994.
As result of all this, many readers see Dick and Kory's relationship as nothing but sex and lust.


Kory doesn't need to be in the Batfamily to have a relationship with Dick.
She can still be his relationship partner outside the Batfamily while she is with the Titans, other teams, or just doing superhero stuff by herself.
She also can have a civilian career like fashion modeling that she has done before in the past.
She can be with Dick and not be involved in the Batman world.
There can be cameos and crossovers.
In the new52 animated movies have Dick and Kory in a relationship despite Dick being part of the Bat family. Of course, Kory is leader of the Titans in those movies.
It was shown that they were a couple in Batman vs. Robin and Batman: Bad Blood with the telephone cameos. The latter movie had a telephone conversation that including talking from Kory that can be heard.

[yohyoi]

What about Dove? Dove, can be Dick's girlfriend before Starfire and Batgirl.

[Starrius]

What about Dove? Dove, can be Dick's girlfriend before Starfire and Batgirl.

I don't see why Dove cannot be Dick's girlfriend.
She might even be an exgirlfriend of Dick.
Dick and Starfire will definitely have a relationship before the end of the first season.

As for Batgirl, I don't know if she'll be in the series.
She's not mentioned as being in the show in any way.

[oasis1313]

I don't see why Dove cannot be Dick's girlfriend.
She might even be an exgirlfriend of Dick.
Dick and Starfire will definitely have a relationship before the end of the first season.

As for Batgirl, I don't know if she'll be in the series.
She's not mentioned as being in the show in any way.

Any idea how the show's done? I finally saw it and the weak link is definitely Starfire; as one reviewer said; The cos-plays are better. I'd never liked Brenton Thwaites, but he did well. One thing I DID like is Dick Grayson at Detective rank instead of being a beat cop. It's more workable than street cop; a special investigator status would enable him to have more flexibility with his hours.

[Starrius]

Any idea how the show's done? I finally saw it and the weak link is definitely Starfire; as one reviewer said; The cos-plays are better. I'd never liked Brenton Thwaites, but he did well. One thing I DID like is Dick Grayson at Detective rank instead of being a beat cop. It's more workable than street cop; a special investigator status would enable him to have more flexibility with his hours.

I don't know how the show's done.
Starfire doesn't know who she is
Dick Grayson doesn't know who he is going to be
they are supposed help each other find that
They come to together and watch over the younger ones

shrugs
I have seen and heard the opposite from some others about Anna Diop as Starfire.
I guess it depends on the perceptions and tastes that one has


I have no positive view nor negative view about the show.
I need to watch 5 episodes before I make a judgment.

[Ascended]

I'm not bothered that the actress playing Kori is black. But I don't think she's got the facial structure or hair to match the role. And the wardrobe isnt very "Kori" at all. That's what bothers me. That she's black? Who gives a sh*t?

[oasis1313]

I'm not bothered that the actress playing Kori is black. But I don't think she's got the facial structure or hair to match the role. And the wardrobe isnt very "Kori" at all. That's what bothers me. That she's black? Who gives a sh*t?

Obviously they can't find an actress here from the planet Tamaran. I think they could give her a better wig, and with her solar powers, Kory was always warm so she didn't need faux fur coats. But the young actress playing Kory is quite talented, so I'm curious to see what she does with the role.