Richard Grayson's Soulmate

[phantom1592]

Perhaps a lot has to do with the age of the fan. As a very elderly fan now, I grew up with Dick Grayson from 1958 onward; now he's like one of my grandchildren (soon to be one of my great-grandchildren). The "80-page giants" with lots of Golden Age stories readily and cheaply reprinted had Dick out in space, in other dimensions, hanging around with Superman--whatever, he took it all in stride like a true Citizen of the Universe. Wherever or whenever he was, he kicked butt. IMHO, many of his very best moments were in "Grayson"--he's never worried about not knowing which side of the road to drive on. I see Batman as FAR more tied to Gotham than Nightwing is to Bludhaven. Dick Grayson has always represented to me the embodiment of "Brave and Bold". He didn't drown in his sorrow and vengeance like Bruce is; he has the great heart of Superman--yet he is far more approachable and has to work a lot harder to accomplish the same goal--he is the best of all worlds as far as this unique genre goes.

For me it was here.



Or here... not sure which I saw first.

382109_full.jpg


Regardless it always has that 'Batman and' attached to the Robin name. I know he had a lot of solo silver age stuff zany adventures.. but I usually file those away with Batman in Zebra costumes and Superman shooting tiny Supermen out of his fingers... They're a fun slice of life, but I don't really contribute them as a 'core concept' to the character.


And again, that's just personal opinion. Which is what I think the whole Starfire vs Batgirl debate is all about. Of the drastically different types of Dick Grayson stories that have been written... which do you prefer? Ace acrobatic detective... or interstellar super hero?

[Jackalope89]

For me it was here.



Or here... not sure which I saw first.

382109_full.jpg


Regardless it always has that 'Batman and' attached to the Robin name. I know he had a lot of solo silver age stuff zany adventures.. but I usually file those away with Batman in Zebra costumes and Superman shooting tiny Supermen out of his fingers... They're a fun slice of life, but I don't really contribute them as a 'core concept' to the character.


And again, that's just personal opinion. Which is what I think the whole Starfire vs Batgirl debate is all about. Of the drastically different types of Dick Grayson stories that have been written... which do you prefer? Ace acrobatic detective... or interstellar super hero?

He's both though. I don't see why there has to be such a hard line between them, as they are not mutually exclusive.

[Restingvoice]

Yeah, those are exactly what I was talking about. The image is different depending on where you started and stopped, then how long you actually make the effort to get used to a new version.

I started with the Golden Age. Batman 66 was my childhood, but then the Burton movies came along. Then I stopped for a long time and during that time, the image of fun Batman was slowly replaced with dark Batman.

By the time I came back, it was The Dark Knight era. I was already used to realistic Batman, only to go into the comic and found out it wasn't realistic at all, and people are fighting between Dixon Nightwing and Grayson or Starfire vs Babs.

It took me a while to get used to the idea of Dick and Babs dating because my childhood version has a big age gap. As long as the decade where I stopped paying attention, I think. When BTAS came out and they're dating, I wasn't even used to it. It was much, much later.

Then it took even longer to get used to Starfire because for me Dick has always been in Gotham among powerless heroes.

I think what I want is a throughline. An essential reading list or timeline that you can give to anyone reading or writing a character that they HAVE to read so they can get a full view of the character, not just one section or the other. Don't ignore this or that element because they're parts of the character. A retcon shouldn't be needed if people base their writing or reading on those foundations.

[Ascended]

Even when I know that it's really heard for me to imagine that, because for so long I associate Dick with Batman. Heck, anyone who started out within the Batman family I associate with Batman, and I associate Batman with realism based on the movies, Year One and so on. As much realism as it can be, because as much as I like Batman to be a fun superhero for kids, I can't deny the appeal of realistic dark detective story. Dick and the others are the extension of that.

I guess TLDR how we view superheroes is defined by where and when we saw them. What we mostly saw them as, for as long as 10 to 20 years, and that can be entirely different each time.

At least Dick does. Robin. Nightwing Titans. Nightwing Bludhaven.

I totally get it. By the time I was discovering Nightwing, the glory days of the NTT had recently ended and he was back in Gotham's orbit, first during the Knightfall story, and then as a solo act in Bludhaven. I didn't know what an impact the Titans (or the pre-Crisis World's Finest stuff with Clark and Bruce) had on Dick's history and character for a long time.

Over time, as I've read the older material, I've obviously gained some appreciation for those more fantastical elements in Dick's story.

But I also think that this (the idea of "street v super" in Nightwing tales) is a business decision as much as a creative one. As a street level guy Nightwing is just a poor man's Batman, and that becomes more apparent with each creative team that doesn't specifically set out to subvert that comparison (like Dixon did back in the day). The sales potential there is pretty limiting. But having Dick walk the line between those two extremes gives him a place to belong, a role, and a niche that no one else is really filling in the Batman office or the wider DCU. It's a chance to provide a product no one else is and expand the audience, using a established, popular IP that we know will turn a profit even when it's ignored and/or abused. Seems like smart business to me.

[byrd156]

Perhaps a lot has to do with the age of the fan. As a very elderly fan now, I grew up with Dick Grayson from 1958 onward; now he's like one of my grandchildren (soon to be one of my great-grandchildren). The "80-page giants" with lots of Golden Age stories readily and cheaply reprinted had Dick out in space, in other dimensions, hanging around with Superman--whatever, he took it all in stride like a true Citizen of the Universe. Wherever or whenever he was, he kicked butt. IMHO, many of his very best moments were in "Grayson"--he's never worried about not knowing which side of the road to drive on. I see Batman as FAR more tied to Gotham than Nightwing is to Bludhaven. Dick Grayson has always represented to me the embodiment of "Brave and Bold". He didn't drown in his sorrow and vengeance like Bruce is; he has the great heart of Superman--yet he is far more approachable and has to work a lot harder to accomplish the same goal--he is the best of all worlds as far as this unique genre goes.

I started reading Dick in '04 or '05 at age 5-6, not sure but around that time. I jumped into comics through the animated stuff from all the DCAU shows and movies (STAS, BTAS, JL, JLU, etc.) to Teen Titans the animated series. All the while I would mostly read old back issues and didn't really focus on newer comics at the time. I had a lot of Silver Age Dick Grayson, NTT, Bludhaven and a lot of other eras. I grew up seeing Dick do everything there was to do in the DCU.

As for the whole realism thing that was brought up earlier I don't see any superheroes as realistic in the slightest. Sure stuff like the Nolan movies or the MCU Netflix stuff is more focused on realism in their world but comics especially Batman comics have never felt "realistic" to me.

[oasis1313]

I started reading Dick in '04 or '05 at age 5-6, not sure but around that time. I jumped into comics through the animated stuff from all the DCAU shows and movies (STAS, BTAS, JL, JLU, etc.) to Teen Titans the animated series. All the while I would mostly read old back issues and didn't really focus on newer comics at the time. I had a lot of Silver Age Dick Grayson, NTT, Bludhaven and a lot of other eras. I grew up seeing Dick do everything there was to do in the DCU.

As for the whole realism thing that was brought up earlier I don't see any superheroes as realistic in the slightest. Sure stuff like the Nolan movies or the MCU Netflix stuff is more focused on realism in their world but comics especially Batman comics have never felt "realistic" to me.

No comic book is "realistic" as far as I'm concerned. It's all about escapism. You wish you could fly and move planets out of their orbits so there's Superman (or Jean Grey). You read through a pile of professional journals and then you've got a comic you can read in half an hour where Batman solves a nifty crime. Or you've been stuck with a bunch of jerks at work so you can come home and read about Nice Guy Nightwing in the very brief amount of leisure time you have.

[Starrius]

No comic book is "realistic" as far as I'm concerned. It's all about escapism. You wish you could fly and move planets out of their orbits so there's Superman (or Jean Grey). You read through a pile of professional journals and then you've got a comic you can read in half an hour where Batman solves a nifty crime. Or you've been stuck with a bunch of jerks at work so you can come home and read about Nice Guy Nightwing in the very brief amount of leisure time you have.

I agree.

I never associated comic books with realism, and that includes Batman comic books.
I think about fantasy and escapism.

[oasis1313]

I agree.

I never associated comic books with realism, and that includes Batman comic books.
I think about fantasy and escapism.

Bruce Wayne would be like Bill Gates suddenly got buff and went out whomping on bad guys. One reason I read comics is just having a lack of time to wade through "War and Peace". Gotta get up early for work, might not have time to read for a couple of weeks--why NOT a "funnybook" I can get through quickly? Another reason I hate these thousand-issue crossovers and usually just tradewait for them.

[Jackalope89]

[oasis1313]

The answer: Legalize polygamy.

[Starrius]

What about Dove? Dove, can be Dick's girlfriend before Starfire and Batgirl.

I just got done watching Titans, episode 2

Dove is currently Hawk's girlfriend, but Dick was with her in the past.

[oasis1313]

I just got done watching Titans, episode 2

Dove is currently Hawk's girlfriend, but Dick was with her in the past.

Her, too? Dick needs a lady who's GRATEFUL to have him.

[Starrius]

Her, too? Dick needs a lady who's GRATEFUL to have him.

Brenton Thwaites talks about Dick's relationship with Kory

"Well...we come together basically as a team to protect the kids and they come together and form a relationship.
She doesn't know who she is, and Robin doesn't really know who he wants to be. They are kinda helping each other find that."


They pretty much get together while protecting Rachel and Garfield and helping each other find his/her self.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFNE...MDwQ9tty2cl5jk

[Jackalope89]

Well, good thing Dick has a long history in acrobatics...

[king81992]

The correct answer is both. Writers are okay with a mass murder at a mental health facility but having three heroes in a stable relationship and ending a pointless shipping war is apparently taboo.