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  1. #1
    Junior Member DrTraveler's Avatar
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    Default Avengers #32 (SPOILERS!)

    Avengers #32 is out and I didn't see a thread yet.

    The time travel excursion continues, now at Betrayal+5045 years. Captain America, Black Widow, and Star Brand find themselves in the future. This is another exposition heavy issue that seeks to give the reader (and Cap!) some insight into what's happened. Spoilers Ahoy!
    spoilers:
    The trio meets with the Future Man, Franklin Richards. This shouldn't be any surprise if you've been reading Hickman's Marvel stuff. He shows them the future Utopia, grants RoboWidow's request, and offers Cap tantalizing answers. Cap chooses to focus on how to stop the Illuminati.

    Franklin reveals they can't be stopped, but that the Illuminati will ultimately fail as they are opposed by Cap, his Avengers, and other "agents of the end times". He assures Cap that the "End of All Things" will indeed happen, even as we see this new Utopia in the Solar System guarded by an Avengers World.

    Franklin advises Cap to disregard what Hawkeye told him at Betrayal +45 years.

    Franklin tells us that by extension he is responsible for the Rogue Planet, and ensuring it ended up out of phase with Earth. Then Cap and his trio are whisked away only for Widow and Starbrand to fail to move forward. It is revealed that Groot is still alive this far out and that he and Franklin believe they failed to get through to Cap. On to Betrayal+51026 years!
    end of spoilers

    Despite being heavy on exposition, I thought it was a fascinating read. This is the kind of issue you need right before the final act goes to make sure all the set pieces and plot are in the right place. This issue does a fine job of that.

    Oh, and spoilers:
    the bomb doesn't go off
    end of spoilers.

    I have some speculation on what this all "means" but I'll wait for later to do that.
    Last edited by DrTraveler; 07-09-2014 at 08:36 AM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member UltimateTy's Avatar
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    Really good issue and Groot got a nice upgrade lol
    We need better comics

  3. #3
    Junior Member DrTraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateTy View Post
    Really good issue and Groot got a nice upgrade lol
    Yeah, I was much happier with this issue. I feel like this advanced the overall plot very well. I'm ready for the final act to start now.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Mahes's Avatar
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    Things are slowly start to fall into place. We're getting closer to answers finally.

    The real takeaway for me was spoilers:
    Cap doesn't even care how to stop Incursions. He just wants to settle his grude with the Illuminati and comes off as just being petty. He's told that he will be the reason why the Illuminati fails in their goal and doesn't even care. Curious to know how despite the "end of everything" happening reality is still ongoing. I didn't expect the bomb to go off in this issue, I think it's happening in the next one.
    end of spoilers

    The art looked better than the prior issues as well.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ShaokhaN's Avatar
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    You'd think Cap would tell him "By the way, Franklin, since you're omnipotent, would you mind removing the bomb I happen to have within me and which might explode at any moment?"

    Also, there must be a reason behind the fact that the initial "future" panel indicates "Betrayal + 5045 years", while Franklin tells Cap "It's four thousand, one hundred and three years" (in the future).

    It's weird that the cover was focused on Hyperion.
    Last edited by ShaokhaN; 07-09-2014 at 09:34 AM.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Cap is coming off bad and petty here...
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  7. #7
    Junior Member DrTraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Things are slowly start to fall into place. We're getting closer to answers finally.

    The real takeaway for me was spoilers:
    Cap doesn't even care how to stop Incursions. He just wants to settle his grude with the Illuminati and comes off as just being petty. He's told that he will be the reason why the Illuminati fails in their goal and doesn't even care. Curious to know how despite the "end of everything" happening reality is still ongoing. I didn't expect the bomb to go off in this issue, I think it's happening in the next one.
    end of spoilers

    The art looked better than the prior issues as well.
    I'm not terribly surprised though. Focusing on the incursions first would mean ignoring evil, and he can't do that.

    Reality is still going because of the Rogue Planet. But how, and why, that works is a mystery. This feels like Crisis. Multiversal Collapse and then rebirth.

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Viteh's Avatar
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    Maybe everything ends...and then it starts up again right after it ends.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Mahes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTraveler View Post
    I'm not terribly surprised though. Focusing on the incursions first would mean ignoring evil, and he can't do that.

    Reality is still going because of the Rogue Planet. But how, and why, that works is a mystery. This feels like Crisis. Multiversal Collapse and then rebirth.
    Ignoring evil? Huge stretch there since the Incursions represent a bigger "evil" and threat. I would think Cap's mindset would be to prioritize.

    The Rogue Planet plays a part for sure. It's weaponized for now however it could be used a power source. We'll find out eventually.

  10. #10
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    Maybe these future realities still exist because at the point in time from where Captain America jumped forward, the earth hadn't collided yet. At least it could be what Franklin meant by things not being linear. Time is just a perception so past, present and future exist simultaneously, until destroyed by the collision.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Mahes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaokhaN View Post
    Also, there must be a reason behind the fact that the initial "future" panel indicates "Betrayal + 5045 years", while Franklin tells Cap "It's four thousand, one hundred and three years" (in the future).
    Quote Originally Posted by Daeron View Post
    Maybe these future realities still exist because at the point in time from where Captain America jumped forward, the earth hadn't collided yet. At least it could be what Franklin meant by things not being linear. Time is just a perception so past, present and future exist simultaneously, until destroyed by the collision.
    And this is the answer. Franklin's speech about how things aren't linear is the key.

  12. #12
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Wouldn't ever trust someone espousing such evil philosophies as that future Franklin anyway.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Things are slowly start to fall into place. We're getting closer to answers finally.

    The real takeaway for me was spoilers:
    Cap doesn't even care how to stop Incursions. He just wants to settle his grude with the Illuminati and comes off as just being petty. He's told that he will be the reason why the Illuminati fails in their goal and doesn't even care. Curious to know how despite the "end of everything" happening reality is still ongoing. I didn't expect the bomb to go off in this issue, I think it's happening in the next one.
    end of spoilers

    The art looked better than the prior issues as well.
    I don't know. He does end up asking Franklin. It just seemed that he the questions are interconnected but you're right he does seemed angered.

    Can anyone explain exactly what Franklin trying to say about time being made up of universes at all that? Because that went right over my head.

    Overall I thought it was a good issue. It really does seem like there is nothing the heroes can do.
    Last edited by PlanetaryDevastation; 07-09-2014 at 10:23 AM.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahes View Post
    Things are slowly start to fall into place. We're getting closer to answers finally.

    The real takeaway for me was spoilers:
    Cap doesn't even care how to stop Incursions. He just wants to settle his grude with the Illuminati and comes off as just being petty. He's told that he will be the reason why the Illuminati fails in their goal and doesn't even care. Curious to know how despite the "end of everything" happening reality is still ongoing. I didn't expect the bomb to go off in this issue, I think it's happening in the next one.
    end of spoilers

    The art looked better than the prior issues as well.
    Well, even though spoilers:
    Franklin tells Cap that the end of all things does happen, in part because Cap opposes the Illuminati
    end of spoilers, I suppose it must seem to him that the problem gets taken care of, by token of the fact that they're landing in an intact universe thousands of years in the future. He even says as much. So, since it must have been dealt with somehow in order for this future to exist, the question shouldn't be if it can be done, but how it was done.

    And that should really have been the first question, just to make sure he wouldn't mess things up upon his return.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daeron View Post
    Maybe these future realities still exist because at the point in time from where Captain America jumped forward, the earth hadn't collided yet. At least it could be what Franklin meant by things not being linear. Time is just a perception so past, present and future exist simultaneously, until destroyed by the collision.
    There's still that 'until' to contend with, though. The term has no meaning outside of a perception of linear time. If the Incursions happen outside of or across all time, wiping out past, present, and future all 'at once', then nobody would ever actually experience or observe them. They do, at particular points in time, so a future can't exist where an Incursion has completed, because there'd be no universe. Only futures, alternate or not, where the Incursions have been ended or successfully fended off, can ever be visited.

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