Hawk and dove workshop thread.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I mentioned Hawk and Dove in CRaymond's workshop poll and people liked the idea of talking about them

So what do people like/dislike about them? How would people fix them?

[scary harpy]

I loved the Hawk & Dove series.

I wish they would bring back Don but not to replace Dawn. If they keep telling stories with him (like on Justice League Unlimited), then keeping him dead is counterproductive. I liked Ren Takamori and Brian Arsala too.

I even enjoyed elements of the recent Liefeld series...like Swan and the myth-building.

I don't know if they need change. They are similar to Batman but with some powers. A good writer and a great artist who builds their rogues gallery is all I think they really need.

[Aahz]

I'm not that familiar with these characters, but I think they really need a redesign of their costumes, especially these wired things Hawk has on his back need to go.

And I think they should probably get a complete new start, or at least some retro active story from before Don's death (or of Don's death). Don death is something that happened 30 years ago, so for new readers it is not really something to care about.

[Thor-Ul]

Well, this could be an interesting series in the modern landscape:two persons with radical differents political points of view who must work together.

[Zero Hunter]

I think they need to reafirm the ties with the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos. They were created to be a balance between the two forces and when DC got rid of the Lords it kind of took a lot of the focus from the characters. I don't see them ever bringing Don back though. Don's death has just become to much a part of who Hank is and is too much a core part of his character to reverse it now. It is one of the things that fuels him at this point and he struggles against the rage in himself over the fact that with all his power he could not save his brother.

One thing I do wish they would bring back and flesh out more are the other avatars. I liked Swan and Condor and saw their potential. The big one is Kestrel though. That creature is just fantastic and I would love to see it bonded long term to one character. It would be interesting if they made Holly Granger the Kestrel because it would create so much drama with Hank and Dawn not wanting to hurt her while at the same time Kestrel trying to kill them.

[Robotman]

I would bring back Holly Granger.



Was never a fan of Hank. He’s the most unlikable character.

[Kaled]

I first heard of Hawk and Dove when they teamed with Batman in the Brave and the Bold. I learned about them through Teen Titans but did not really care when Dove died in Crisis. When Karl and Barbara Kesel's mini-series was advertised in the 80's I might have passed on it except I like Rob Liefeld's art at the time. It was when he first started out and it was good. This was right before he started on New Mutants. I now liked Hawk and Dove. Side note when they did a story arc in the regular series about H&D's origin their looks changed but I personally did not like it. I hated when the series ended because it was still good story telling but I hated what happened next. DC changed the ending to Armageddon and made Hawk Monarch and killed Dove. Years later when Johns brought Dove back I was hoping he would use her in the JSA but didn't. When Holly became the new Hawk I felt DC was just putting anyone in the identity. And at the time I don't remember her mentioning a sister before though I might be wrong. When the new Dove was introduced in the 80's it was shocking because at that time a female had not taken over a male role like Dove had. I also felt like she was just created to die in Blackest Night like Kole was for Crisis. I was glad he was brought back at the end of Blackest Night but he would have not been one I would have selected to return. Gail Simone did a good job with them in Birds of Prey. I looked forward to their return to comics during 52 and was actually looking to Liefeld drawing them the book but I did not like the grey and red color scheme he gave Hawk plus he decided to make him taller than now and for me it did not work. I felt like he was trying to recapture some of the magic from the 80's mini-series but he just did not make it. Hopefully with their appearance in the Titans TV show they will come back to a mini-series or series. There was a new Hawk & Dove mini-series in 97 in an attempt to create a new set of characters but it did not interest me at all.

[CRaymond]

Once upon a time, I had a massive universe recon idea that featured a clandestine side of Cadmus with a variety of code named programmes for the development of superhuman operatives.

The Crow programme was meant to create a ghost-powered superhuman.
The Raven programme was meant to utilize demons.
The Swan developed sonic and sound weapons.
The Swift was exploring Speed Force.
Duck trained for underwater combat.
Penguin trained for infiltrating political regimes.
Canary was a test subject, and given Swan, Penguin, Hawk powers. She escaped and went “black”.

Dove utilized pheromones to soothe aggression.
Hawk trained for martial combat and endurance.

There were a lot more programmes.

[bearman]

Does anyone definitively know why Hawk and Dove were dropped from the Titans revival?