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  1. #76
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    My sense of what Jean's going for is mutants as a "nation" in a sense similar to how Native American tribes are considered nations, but still citizens of the United States. In other words, mutants are a distinct people, but not their own state. I could be wrong, and, if so, what Jean's going for is just a more polite version of what Scott declared with Utopia.

    IMO, what weakens Jean's concept is that mutants aren't a distinct people. They don't have their own culture. They don't have a common historical origin or single language. They're humans from cultures and ethnic groups around the world who happen to be born with the potential for superpowers.
    I think Jean's approaching it with a mindset close to this. Mutant's aren't a unified people but the world treats them essentially all the same. They were becoming numerous enough to form their own styles and culture in Morrison's run before they regressed everything, and as Jean pointed out gathering a bunch of mutants together nowadays is just and invitation for those that would to come and murder them all.

    It's interesting that Jean got both Wakanda and Atlantis to back her in this idea, and now it's even more complicated as Namor will be seen as harboring a fugitive until Jean's proven innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    That reminds me: was Namor ever tried for war crimes for what he did to Wakanda during AvX? Has that been dealt with at all?
    I don't know, but the Wakandan ambassador seemed pretty chill with Namor in the room.

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    I think Jean's approaching it with a mindset close to this. Mutant's aren't a unified people but the world treats them essentially all the same. They were becoming numerous enough to form their own styles and culture in Morrison's run before they regressed everything, and as Jean pointed out gathering a bunch of mutants together nowadays is just and invitation for those that would to come and murder them all.

    It's interesting that Jean got both Wakanda and Atlantis to back her in this idea, and now it's even more complicated as Namor will be seen as harboring a fugitive until Jean's proven innocent.



    I don't know, but the Wakandan ambassador seemed pretty chill with Namor in the room.
    Of what relevance is it to the safety of mutants? It's just platitudes

  3. #78
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    IMO, what weakens Jean's concept is that mutants aren't a distinct people. They don't have their own culture. They don't have a common historical origin or single language. They're humans from cultures and ethnic groups around the world who happen to be born with the potential for superpowers.
    How is this any different than America being comprised of people from different cultures, ethnic groups around the world who happen to be born or immigrated to America?

    A nation doesn't have to be homogeneous as that is the distinction between say Japan or China and the United States which is a melting pot. Since this would be the founding of a nation then there is not necessarily a requirement for homogeneity.

    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  4. #79
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Jean Grey is the leader that mutantkind needs in 2018. Watching her made it more apparent how lacking there has been a distinct voice and no Kitty isnt it

  5. #80
    Incredible Member PsionicHero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Jean Grey is the leader that mutantkind needs in 2018. Watching her made it more apparent how lacking there has been a distinct voice and no Kitty isnt it
    This!

    I wasn't all the hyped to see Jean come back...but this issue. Wow. This is totally what I've been missing from the X-Books. I didn't realize how much I missed Jean until now, and to top it all off, it's Jean sans-phoenix. Even better.

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I do think the idea of being a nation without an actual place to it it's weird. I guess it's just more about getting a voice for mutants. When mutant problems come in, the "mutant nation" can handle it politically instead of it just being on the hands of country's government.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I thought it was a decent first issue. It moved very fast and tried to cover a lot of stuff and it threw me a bit because this is Jean's big return and it didn't really feel like that. It felt like she has been around a while and they skipped over her connecting with everyone again. I guess that will happen in other books? So the pacing felt a bit off, but not that much. Also I don't really know if I care that much about the whole "world tolerance" thing when just a year ago they were all proclaiming Cyclops as Hitler. It is all sort of eye rolling because you know it won't lead to anything substantial and the mutants will always be persecuted because Marvel isn't going to remove that aspect of their story despite others in the MCU doing far worse, but I like Taylor's voice for Jean and I especially like the villain choice. So the positives outweigh the negatives for me in the issue. Can't wait for Gambit to show up in a couple issues.
    I for one am glad they skipped over that stuff. I like seeing Jean at her strongest for her first real return, we've had many stories of characters returning and being confused or distant. It's nice to have a hero determined to make things better and have a positive attitude.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Humans weren’t actually responsible for the fall of the previous mutant nations, were they? They were destroyed by circumstances beyond the control of anyone involved. Easy target just sounds like a lazy excuse.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Humans weren’t actually responsible for the fall of the previous mutant nations, were they? They were destroyed by circumstances beyond the control of anyone involved. Easy target just sounds like a lazy excuse.
    Depends on who you want to ask.



    Did human governments design the machines of genocide that Nova used? Well there is one POV.

  10. #85
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    I just realized that I think the two carjackers are the same idiots that broke into Laura and Gabby's apartment in ANW #10 (I mean how many guys named "Booch" can there possibly be?).

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    Very strong first issue! Excellent writing and art - I love how Jean is this almost ethereal figure but a powerful and positive one at the same time. I have missed you so, Red.

    Regarding the final page cliffhanger - I find it pretty unexciting to be honest. I like the set up Taylor has come up with for the series but find Cassandra to be a pretty boring villain. But I guess we'll have to see what the creative team does with her. But this is still an excellent first issue. I think the X-Men books are getting a bit too crowded now but there's no denying that Red is a strong addition to the line-up.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Depends on who you want to ask.



    Did human governments design the machines of genocide that Nova used? Well there is one POV.
    Maybe it's just me, but I'm going to hold the person who pulled the trigger responsible. I know Sentinels complicate things, but at the end of the day, Cassandra took (old ones right?) them and used them against mutants. No humans actively participated in the genocide of Genosha.

  13. #88
    Incredible Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Overall, I really enjoyed this issue and reading the real Jean Grey again has been a delight. Her story is totally a continuation of Morrison’s NXM Jean – minus the Phoenix stuff. And the way she was portrayed, there is no doubt that none of the mess Scott had to go through would have happened if Jean was there. I was pleased with Namor’s and Wolverine’s addition and was glad that Kurt will be taken away from Gold. I just wish Storm was in this book. It’s been too long since these two besties has been in the same book, on the same team. Cassandra Nova was a surprise and I’m glad Jean has an arch-nemesis. Nova is to Jean as Shadow King is to Xavier.

    The art was fabulous and the fashion was a major plus.

  14. #89
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    I liked the issue but didn't necessarily understand how Jean would have had any sort of relational ties to Tchalla to ask for help in the way she did. Outside of that I liked the setup and good to see Jean back.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  15. #90
    Ready to roll out! R0d's Avatar
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    Some quick thoughts:
    - It was a decent first issue.
    - I don't like the art style, looks rushed.
    - Great twist at the end.
    - IMO if you compare it with Gold, Blue or AXM it's way better than those books.

    So yeah, I'll stick around for more.

    7/10

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