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  1. #1
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    Default Tim Drake should be the new Oracle

    (I was going to post this in the Tim Drake megathread but felt like it was a valid enough point to warrant its own topic)

    Red Robin is a terrible name, but Tim Drake is a great character. Oracle is a great name. Tim Drake's strongest attribute has been "computers!detective" since inception. That fits what Oracle's about.

    Seems like an easy solve, right?

    Tim Drake should fill the Oracle hole in the Bat-Universe, which is now more necessary than ever with more active sidekicks/allies than ever. It would also help re-establish Tim's ties to the DCU which are still fairly murky since his revisions in New52 and then being sidelined with Oz.

    Tim does not need to be tragically mutilated to become Oracle. What would be more common and relatable is if he simply suffered a career-ending injury like an athlete would. He's unable to come from an MCL injury he suffered while training. That's a devastating injury in real life, even though it seems like small potatoes in the DCU when usually you need to be blasted by Darkseid to get sidelined for any amount of time. But that's why it'd be perfect for Tim — he is supposed to be relatable, like Peter Parker.

    Making Tim the Oracle of the DCU returns Tim to his "audience surrogate" role, because it's like he's a streamer/Twitch kid but what he's playing with isn't PUBG, it's The Batman Family.

  2. #2
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    This Tim as new Oracle idea is admittedly not necessarily a bad idea. You make a reasonable enough case for it.

    But to play some devils advocate and counterargue:

    Tim Drake's strongest attribute has been "computers!detective" since inception.
    Yea, but a significant attribute of him was also that he was active in-the-field fighter as well. Like all Robins.


    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    Tim Drake should fill the Oracle hole in the Bat-Universe, which is now more necessary than ever with more active sidekicks/allies than ever.
    Some might read this as saying "Because of DC's mistakes (too many active sidekicks/allies), Tim (or his fans) should be "punished" via significantly changes to him and taken out of his long running active action role."

    I'm sure many liked that was a computer nerd cerebral type that had to adjust to also having a very physical fighting life as well. Dick and Jason weren't like that as Robins or characters so much.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 02-07-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    This Tim as new Oracle idea is admittedly not necessarily a bad idea. You make a reasonable enough case for it.

    To play some devils advocate and counterargue:
    Yea, but a significant attribute of him was also that he was active in-the-field fighter as well. Like all Robins.

    Some might read this as saying "Because of DC's mistakes (too many active sidekicks/allies), Tim (or his fans) should be "punished" via significantly changes to him and taken out of his long running active action role."
    Thanks! I think you're right that #Timfans might react poorly to a change, but it depends on how the idea is presented. If it's a leak or something, people might think it's the worst version of it, like you say, he's being punished or pushed away again. But if it's able to be a surprise, and comes from a natural place of storytelling, I think you could win people over to it.

    Really, it could happen in one issue. Tim is injured, but he's still involved in helping, so while he recovers, he's doing Oracle things. He's done it before minus injury, so it's a natural fit. But it turns out that it won't heal in a way where he can be the same athlete he was before. It's not a matter of will. Minus cybernetic replacement -- a viable option -- your knee is done, Tim. You can walk but you can't put that same kind of stress on it again.

    Tim COULD take the cybernetic option, but he's ALWAYS envisioned an endgame for himself, since Day One. Future Tim is his worst nightmare because he's talked about wanting to quit a number of times.

    Oracle is the balance he's been looking for. He can be Oracle anywhere. He can be focused on studying in Harvard and be Oracle. He could live the normal life, with Steph as Spoiler, while being her (and everyone else's) Oracle.

    So I think #Timfans would be happy to see the character more established in the greater DCU, he'd be getting more and better screen time.

    But it doesn't have to be Tim — they're right now kind of squeezing Duke to being Oracle (though that really doesn't make any sense, in-universe or as far as maintaining a certain brand with the characters), and it could just as easily be Dick (though "Nightwing" is more established, he has a movie on the way, and though he also is a great "DCU connector" character, it'd be a stretch for him to be "computer detective" whereas that's always been Tim's thing) — it just makes the most sense for it to be Tim.

  4. #4
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Tim Drake needs to find his own path. Like Nightwing and Oracle did.

  5. #5
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    I think Tim should be tragically mutilated, whether he became Oracle or not.

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    I think if anyone can be Oracle without being tragically mutilated... It should *still* be Babs.

    Just... Just let her be a grade-A undisputed badass as both Batgirl and Oracle. There's no reason to keep her behind other heroes she should outrank in threat level.

    I still think Red Robin *can* work as a Graduation for Tim, but only if it's played the same way that it was before Flashpoint, with a radically different profile in his costume (somethings the cowl did very well, in spite of how some people thought it was ugly), and a more mature, less Wesley Crusher-style portrayal. I think you could have his past elements that people love like his parents (who shockingly still haven't been featured in Rebirth) reintegrated to ground him a bit, but give him the MO and experienced portrayal of FabNic and Chris Yost's portrayal, with a combination of ambition and perspective that makes him facilate more believably between rightfully confident and arrogant.

    Just, even if he does become Oracle... Please don't have him hack *guns,* anymore.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Tim Drake needs to find his own path. Like Nightwing and Oracle did.
    I'd be happy enough with this but I'd also be happy if DC found a writer that can make Tim likable for me again even if they have to start back at square one in a lot of ways with him in order to do so. I really hate current Tim's smug, superior attitude and also hate how writers have amped up his tech skill to the exclusion of all the other skills he has as someone trained by Batman.
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  8. #8
    Mighty Member ayanestar's Avatar
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    I would like Babs to be Oracle again lol someone needs to save her from her horrible book. I really dislike her current version. If DC wants to keep the current concept of the book just make Steph Batgirl and let Babs be herself again.
    Anyway what I actually wanted to say is that Oracle is Babs' thing and Drake needs to find his own path. Red Robin was always a horrible name and Tim deserves better. I had high hopes for Rebirth but I've the feeling Tim got even more annoying + he looks like a cheap version of Robin. I have no idea who approved his new costume but it was a horrible idea. Who knows maybe Lobdell is the one who needs to fix Tim, he is doing a good job with Jason now so maybe he should fix the mess he created however there is always the possibility it might make things worse and maybe he just got lucky with Jason but one thing is for sure DC needs to figure out what to do with Tim and the rest of the Batman Family. I hate to start this topic again but maybe DC should also stop adding new/old characters to the Batman Family and Gotham without a plan. They can't just put them into one book and call it a day. It's not going to wok forever and they are wasting the potential of these characters. Tim, Steph and Cass could hold their own book once upon a time and I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I think if anyone can be Oracle without being tragically mutilated... It should *still* be Babs.

    Just... Just let her be a grade-A undisputed badass as both Batgirl and Oracle. There's no reason to keep her behind other heroes she should outrank in threat level.

    I still think Red Robin *can* work as a Graduation for Tim, but only if it's played the same way that it was before Flashpoint, with a radically different profile in his costume (somethings the cowl did very well, in spite of how some people thought it was ugly), and a more mature, less Wesley Crusher-style portrayal. I think you could have his past elements that people love like his parents (who shockingly still haven't been featured in Rebirth) reintegrated to ground him a bit, but give him the MO and experienced portrayal of FabNic and Chris Yost's portrayal, with a combination of ambition and perspective that makes him facilate more believably between rightfully confident and arrogant.

    Just, even if he does become Oracle... Please don't have him hack *guns,* anymore.
    Oracle could be Batgirl, totally. But I think it's more about getting rid of "Red Robin" as a codename because it's (1) a mouthful, (2) unclear what it means when there's a Robin already, other than, this is a different Robin (3) it's a restaurant. Meanwhile, "Oracle" is a great codename.

    Tim Drake has never had an original codename. Robin, Red Robin, whatever. So inhabiting "Oracle" isn't a strange move. It just clarifies the character + swaps a bad codename for a good one.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    But I think it's more about getting rid of "Red Robin" as a codename because it's (1) a mouthful
    ...
    Meanwhile, "Oracle" is a great codename.
    They both have the same number of syllables, you know.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    They both have the same number of syllables, you know.
    Its true but there's something to the flow of it, especially as these names tend to be used in comics. "Red Robin, run!" vs "Oracle, run!" or "Look out, Oracle!" vs "Look out, Red Robin!"

    I feel like Oracle just works way better. Batman, Nightwing, Robin, Oracle. Each name* sounds cool and unique. — vs — Batman, Nightwing, Robin, Red Robin.

    *(not including the extended family: Batgirl, Batwoman, Red Hood, The Signal, Spoiler, Clayface, etc)

    I dunno! Maybe it's just me. It's subjective.

  12. #12
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    What about Flamebird?

    As in Nightwing & Flamebird?

    Bette's Hawkfire now.

    Move Tim and Steph to Bludhaven. He(, She, They) can partner with Nightwing occasionally or solo occasionally.

  13. #13
    Amazing Member Yonekunih's Avatar
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    I like your idea but I'd like him to choose another codename. And wasn't in the beginning of New 52, he was said to retire and then work in Internet crime-fighting or something like that before uniting the Teen Titans?, I think they can work from there, because honestly, I always like the idea of Tim being the Tec guy

  14. #14
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    I want Tim to get a different code name almost as much as I want him to have his own series again. I've never cared for the "Red Robin" name even when it was used in Kingdom Come. Besides the fact that it is just...meh (to me) it's tied to well known to the restaurant chain in the general public. Oracle could be cool for him, but it's also too much of a behind the scenes type of name as well...I much prefer Tim to be front and center, which isn't to say it couldn't work. A name I think could work for Tim would be Sandman (in a role similar to the Sandman Mystery Theater style as opposed to the yellow and purple clad version.) But either way, I would love to see Tim adopt something other than Red Robin be it Oracle, Sandman, Redwing, Talon, Mid-nite....whatever...just give him better characterization than he received during New52, please.
    (As for Flamebird, I want Bette to go back to that one. Everything about that persona is better than Hawkfire.)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    What about Flamebird?

    As in Nightwing & Flamebird?

    Bette's Hawkfire now.

    Move Tim and Steph to Bludhaven. He(, She, They) can partner with Nightwing occasionally or solo occasionally.
    I get the instinct to use "Flamebird" because of its origins with the "Nightwing" name but I don't think "Flamebird" is as good as "Oracle." And while I definitely enjoy Dick & Tim being in each other's lives, I don't know about tying them together that closely. I'm not opposed to Tim & Steph moving to Bludhaven, although I think the most fun for Tim & Steph would be if they were constantly on the move.... maybe instead of going to Harvard, Tim decides to do his own version of Bruce's training, and he travels the world. He acts as Oracle because you can be connected anywhere, and Spoiler does the athletic heroics.

    Tim is able to defend himself in combat, but he doesn't seek it out like he did as Red Robin — he's looking further down the road, thinking more long-term, and Spoiler can handle the purse-snatchers.

    For bigger threats, Oracle organizes a team. And the team could be different each time, similar to Mission: Impossible or (to a degree) Suicide Squad. The unifying connection is Tim calling the shots, as Oracle.

    I also think "Oracle & Spoiler" has a nice ring to it. The Oracle tells you what will happen, and The Spoiler ruins it. It works!

    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    I want Tim to get a different code name almost as much as I want him to have his own series again. I've never cared for the "Red Robin" name even when it was used in Kingdom Come. Besides the fact that it is just...meh (to me) it's tied to well known to the restaurant chain in the general public. Oracle could be cool for him, but it's also too much of a behind the scenes type of name as well...I much prefer Tim to be front and center, which isn't to say it couldn't work. A name I think could work for Tim would be Sandman (in a role similar to the Sandman Mystery Theater style as opposed to the yellow and purple clad version.) But either way, I would love to see Tim adopt something other than Red Robin be it Oracle, Sandman, Redwing, Talon, Mid-nite....whatever...just give him better characterization than he received during New52, please.
    (As for Flamebird, I want Bette to go back to that one. Everything about that persona is better than Hawkfire.)
    Tim's version of Oracle doesn't need to be hidden in a Clocktower like Barbara Gordon for two main reasons.

    1. Technology is different than it was during the late '90s/early '00s when Babs was Oracle. You don't need gigantic desktop computers to have power. Tim can be Oracle on his phone or tablet.

    2. Tim can still fight & kick-butt (he still keeps his bo-staff), but "Oracle" allows him to emphasize his strengths as a thinker, organizer, and detective.

    While I'm thinking of it...

    3. Tim being injured in a way that prevents him from being as athletic as before (ie, ACL or MCL injury) means that while the above is true, what's also true is that Spoiler is more necessary to be beside him. As his protector.

    4. And maybe Orphan, as well, because what else is she doing? And so if if Oracle is sending Spoiler & Orphan on missions, then you almost have Charlie's Angels-meets-Mission Impossible.

    Compared to right now, where Red Robin is basically... Nightwing? Or kind of like Robin but not? Or... he's... something? He's yet another hero with a bird-codename who, unless you have a history* with "Tim Drake", is pretty redundant.

    * (which I do, I loved his Dixon incarnation as Peter Parker-Robin, and I want him to return to this)
    Last edited by gregpersons; 02-08-2018 at 12:14 PM.

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