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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Doesn't Connor Hawke count? He lasted awhile I think...

  2. #17
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    I have to say when reading characters of color there is one thing that bugs me that both DC and Marvel do. Most characters of color have similar backgrounds and similar stories told about them. Every Black character seems to be from Harlem, Detroit or Chicago or is from Africa. I am frustrated with the lack of characters of color but also annoyed simultaneously with the continual same character beats and tropes used in their representations.
    Also, I think it depends who you count as a minority character I always counted Damian Wayne when I thought of minority characters.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reni344 View Post
    I have to say when reading characters of color there is one thing that bugs me that both DC and Marvel do. Most characters of color have similar backgrounds and similar stories told about them. Every Black character seems to be from Harlem, Detroit or Chicago or is from Africa. I am frustrated with the lack of characters of color but also annoyed simultaneously with the continual same character beats and tropes used in their representations.
    Also, I think it depends who you count as a minority character I always counted Damian Wayne when I thought of minority characters.
    To be fair most of the white characters have recycled origins too. There's only so many teenagers who come across powers and has personal tragedy that I can handle anymore... and nearly everyone has to have parents or loved ones die horribly to justify being a hero... even if it's a retcon.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reni344 View Post
    I have to say when reading characters of color there is one thing that bugs me that both DC and Marvel do. Most characters of color have similar backgrounds and similar stories told about them. Every Black character seems to be from Harlem, Detroit or Chicago or is from Africa. I am frustrated with the lack of characters of color but also annoyed simultaneously with the continual same character beats and tropes used in their representations.
    While there is certainly a place and a need for heroes to represent their communities, etc. I am also frustrated by the lack of breadth when it comes to heroes of color. While it's important for these heroes to bring their point of view to a story and add their culture to the great tapestry of heroes, I personally want to see heroes of color stand right next to white heroes who protect the entire world, or the universe. Marvel's "Ultimates" had that for a bit, but at some point having heroes of color only "looking after their own" becomes its own kind of segregation - heroes of all color should be seen as altruistic enoughand powerful enough to stand for all humanity. And yes, there are a bunch of examples, but in terms of percentages, it still seems unbalanced to me.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 02-07-2018 at 09:52 PM.

  5. #20
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    It does seem that there is a tendency to keep black characters small. While white characters are out saving the world, black characters are mostly confined to saving the neighborhood.

  6. #21
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    While there is certainly a place and a need for heroes to represent their communities, etc. I am also frustrated by the lack of breadth when it comes to heroes of color. While it's important for these heroes to bring their point of view to a story and add their culture to the great tapestry of heroes, I personally want to see heroes of color stand right next to white heroes who protect the entire world, or the universe. Marvel's "Ultimates" had that for a bit, but at some point having heroes of color only "looking after their own" becomes its own kind of segregation - heroes of all color should be seen as altruistic enoughand powerful enough to stand for all humanity. And yes, there are a bunch of examples, but in terms of percentages, it still seems unbalanced to me.
    QFT. There really needs to be more to heroes of color then them "looking after their own". They do need to be seen handling things on a wider scale. The problem, as I see it anyway, is that there is this underlying perception that ONLY a hero of color is capable of understanding the problems of his own neighborhood. If a white hero tried to come into that same neighborhood they would either be looked upon by readers as trying to be the "White Savior" or they would be looked upon as having "White Privilege" which means they aren't capable of understanding the situation on the same level as the hero of color would.

    Until both of these perceptions are dealt with in some way I expect that most heroes of color are going to continue to be similarly type cast. What we need to start seeing in order to change this attitude is heroes of both races treating each other as equals and with respect.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 02-07-2018 at 10:30 PM.
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  7. #22
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    You don't have to be racist to make decisions that perpetuate racism. You're right, DC depends heavily on - and supports, in all sorts of ways - "iconic" characters that have been around since the 1960's and before. And those characters were created in a time permeated with racism, sexism, and homophobia. If you start with that, and then build your business model on familiarity and nostalgia, the racial demographics of your featured characters don't change very much.

    You have to put concerted, specific effort into breaking up that hegemony. Now some people will say that's not DC's job*, that they should just "publish what sells." But "what sells" is not a constant, and it depends on what characters you put out there, what talent you put on their books, how you promote them, and so on. And in the long run mixing it up a little - rather than coasting on your best-known names - could be good for business.

    (* Personally I think it's everybody's job. But that's just me. )
    TBF though, DC has set a precedence that despite their overreliance on the same old iconic figures, those iconic figures don't necessarily have to be white in all their appearances. Dating as way back as the mid-late 60's



    Race swapping of popular characters has always been in DC's genes.

  8. #23
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Not sure what metric this list is using, but John Stewart has been the star of way more than 36 issues of comics. Even if we exclude the dozens and dozens of comics where he was sharing the spotlight with others or his solo guest appearances during the 1970s and early '80s, John was the main GL during the mid-80s, headlined the Mosaic series in the 90s and the GLCorps during the New 52 (which was pretty definitively a John Stewart book with a supporting cast of alien GLs).

  9. #24
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    UGH WHO CARES!?

    There's plenty of prominent women and poc's at DC. Just because they're not as popular as you want them to be doesn't mean they don't have any successful minority superheroes.

    Amount of issues =/= success *cough*Black Lightning*cough*
    Valiant- X-O Manowar / Bloodshot Salvation / Ninja-K / Quantum and Woody! / Shadowman / Harbinger Wars II / Brittania
    DC- Justice League / Hal Jordan and the GLC / The Flash / Aquaman / Mera / Mister Miracle / Silencer / The Terrifics
    Other- The Walking Dead / Mighty Morphin Power Rangers / Go Go Power Rangers

  10. #25
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    They've been fairly successful in mainstream media though.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicbeing View Post
    Its not racism's its geographic's, most ethnicities don't even have white people in their literature/mythology/religion/stories/art/media due to target audience and isolation etc.
    But the United States is not a mono-ethnic country. It's actually got quite a lot of non-white people in it. Some of them even read comics. More of them might.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    UGH WHO CARES!?
    I care. Any other questions?
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  13. #28
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    It does seem that there is a tendency to keep black characters small. While white characters are out saving the world, black characters are mostly confined to saving the neighborhood.
    Most of the black characters i read so far do not confined to saving the neighborhood.
    Now many street level types are but you could say the same for white street level characters.


    I am frustrated with the lack of characters of color
    I think you mean more solo books lasting longer right?
    There are plenty of poc and women charterers at marvel and dc,so there is not a lack of them.
    The question is could more get solo issues that could go past 50 or 100.


    but also annoyed simultaneously with the continual same character beats and tropes used in their representations.
    I don't agree with this.
    Could you give some examples?because so far i find that not to be true.

    Anyway Marvel might be putting out more titles with diversity but nothing I've read in recent years was any good especially America must have been the worst thing I've ever spend my money on and I used to love her in Young Avengers.
    I think the poc of titles and women titles i have read so far at marvel have good,so i don't agree with this view of course i think america could have been much better.

    You give Marvel way too much credit. It’s really not successful efforts over there except for a few.
    I don't agree with this view either.
    You could say most white characters that are given solo titles over the years don't keep solo titles at marvel and dc for really long time either.

    Look at ant-man,spider woman,scarlet witch,carol danvers,superboy,captain atom,firestorm(original one) etc..so it's not only a woman and poc problem for dc and marvel.

    Now certain or few white characters on average get more chances to get another solo faster but that's another issue i am not going into.

    The difference with marvel and dc however is that marvel tries more and they put out larger numbers of books compared to dc.
    That's white and poc titles.
    There is more to choose from.
    Marvel is just more successful then dc.
    That's all.
    That's a fact.

    There's plenty of prominent women and poc's at DC. Just because they're not as popular as you want them to be doesn't mean they don't have any successful minority superheroes.
    True.
    I would say however that marvel has more plenty of prominent poc and women then dc.
    Marvel has more successful poc then dc.
    Anyway this another complaint thread that i should not have open,so i will leave it.
    Bye.
    Last edited by mace11; 02-08-2018 at 07:22 AM.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    But the United States is not a mono-ethnic country. It's actually got quite a lot of non-white people in it. Some of them even read comics. More of them might.
    White- 74%
    Hispanic/latino- 17%
    Black- 13%
    Asian- 5%
    Other- 9%

    So what exactly do you want from comics? How many black people would need to be main characters for it to be fair? Just an honest question.
    Valiant- X-O Manowar / Bloodshot Salvation / Ninja-K / Quantum and Woody! / Shadowman / Harbinger Wars II / Brittania
    DC- Justice League / Hal Jordan and the GLC / The Flash / Aquaman / Mera / Mister Miracle / Silencer / The Terrifics
    Other- The Walking Dead / Mighty Morphin Power Rangers / Go Go Power Rangers

  15. #30
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    This is just my personal experience, and I have no stats to back me up, so take it for what it's worth (which is not much)... But from what I've seen, the audience is older, more conservative (not politically conservative, but personality-wise) and resistant to change than Marvel's. When Marvel was bringing out Cho-Hulk and Jane Foster Thor and Riri Williams and so on, I got the impression from most DC fans that DC would never do something like that, and they were glad of that. DC has always felt slow and behind the times, like the comics your dad would read if he read comics. There's a little chicken and egg going on here too, as in do minority books not sell well typically at DC because they don't put many out, or do they not put many out because they don't sell well?

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