Has a full reboot ever been successfully accomplished in the DCU?

[phantom1592]

Buried Allen also pointed out that the Silver Age Reboot was successful as well. Which is something that had escaped my mind when I made my first post. That was a deliberate effort to bring in a new Flash and new Green Lantern. It also revamped several others (Although Hawkman just added another ripple that muddied waters.) That was a major reboot that not only kickstarted a new era for comics, but also helped revitalize the entire medium after declining sales. Whereas COIE helped to bring in a new creative effort at DC after most series had fallen into a slump.

I guess in the strictest terms Silver Age was a reboot, but I don't usually consider it one myself. The reason that was so successful, was that it wasn't really 'replacing' anything. Outside of Superman and Batman, Superhero comics were dead and gone. Green Lantern, Flash, Justice Society... they were out of print for between 5-10 years and they'd moved on to the crime/western/romance comic waves. There wasn't really the case of one month you're in the middle of reading a character you've loved for 20 years... and the next month everything you knew was discarded for some 'hot new thing'. It was a pretty unique situation that turned to gold for DC.

Despite the fact the conclusion depicted the heroes setting off another Big Bang to fix what Parallax did to the timeline, Zero Hour didn't reboot the entire DCU (only the LoSH.) However, it allowed for futher "patches" to be brought in to fix certain continuity issues e.g. Batman now never caught his parent's killer, Metropolis was restored after Lex Luthor blasted it to the ground, and Hawkman became so convoluted he made the X-Men franchise seem simple by comparison.

Zero Hour was a great little series. Yet it raised more questions than it answered. Hence why DC were forced to bring in the concept of Hypertime. More than that, the ripples it failed to solve lingered like a fart in an elevator. Necessitating Infinite Crisis to try and "fix" everything yet again. Which is one problem DC has had for years: they are too busy looking back when they should be looking forward.

'forced' is a strong word. They really didn't NEED to do anything of the sort. Marvel has had just as many continuity glitches over the decades... and they just ignore them and kept doing what they do. They need to just accept their glitches and move on. DC has way too much Legacy... and Way too much history to cram it into a sliding timeline and NOT have glitches... they need to just stop trying to 'fix' things.

Remember... Parallax wanted to reboot the universe and make everything 'perfect,' and DC insisted that was BAD thing.... STOP BEING LIKE PARALLAX!!!

[BatmanJones]

I would say yes, once. After all superhero comics had gone out of print apart from the Trinity and Julie Schwartz had the idea of starting over with new characters as Flash, GL, Hawks, Atom, etc. That decision, along with Schwartz's decision to bring back the JSA as on an alternate earth, was the only really successful reboot of the DCU. And it was a glorious reboot. Every attempt to reboot since CoIE has either not been a reboot or has been a reboot that wasn't successful and was largely reversed shortly after (new 52).

I think it's possible that we will have a line wide reboot coming out of Doomsday Clock and if we do I'm cautiously optimistic it will be a good one.

But nobody can touch the ways in which Julie Schwartz reinvented the DCU and I doubt anyone ever will.

[Buried Alien]

I would say yes, once. After all superhero comics had gone out of print apart from the Trinity and Julie Schwartz had the idea of starting over with new characters as Flash, GL, Hawks, Atom, etc. That decision, along with Schwartz's decision to bring back the JSA as on an alternate earth, was the only really successful reboot of the DCU. And it was a glorious reboot. Every attempt to reboot since CoIE has either not been a reboot or has been a reboot that wasn't successful and was largely reversed shortly after (new 52).

I think it's possible that we will have a line wide reboot coming out of Doomsday Clock and if we do I'm cautiously optimistic it will be a good one.

But nobody can touch the ways in which Julie Schwartz reinvented the DCU and I doubt anyone ever will.

I think the reason that Schwartz's reboot succeeded where later ones all (to some degree) failed is that Schwartz was able to move forward without disrespecting the past. When Barry Allen and Hal Jordan first appeared, they did not diminish Jay Garrick and Alan Scott. Subsequent reboot attempts ALL made the mistake of not respecting the past, which saddled the reboot with the burden of resentful fans of the older characters/continuity.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Daniel22]

I think the reason that Schwartz's reboot succeeded where later ones all (to some degree) failed because Schwartz was able to move forward without disrespecting the past. When Barry Allen and Hal Jordan first appeared, they did not diminish Jay Garrick and Alan Scott. Subsequent reboot attempts ALL made the mistake of not respecting the past, which saddled the reboot with the burden of resentful fans of the older characters/continuity.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That, and the superheroes didn't really HAVE fans of the older characters/continuity. The publishers basically felt like they were making comics for kids who would read from about six or eight to about twelve and grow out of it. Add in that there were few to no true continuity altering events happening in comics (deaths, marriages, kids, etc) to have to consider. The whole idea of shared universes and continuity has changed so much that comparing the Silver Age superhero resurgence to modern reboots doesn't seem fair imo.

[Doctor Bifrost]

That, and the superheroes didn't really HAVE fans of the older characters/continuity.

Actually, they did. I knew some of them. (Actually, I suppose I was one of them, depending on where you put the cut-off date.) But in the absence of the Internet and other wide-spectrum discussion media, they were largely invisible.

[Daniel22]

Actually, they did. I knew some of them. (Actually, I suppose I was one of them, depending on where you put the cut-off date.) But in the absence of the Internet and other wide-spectrum discussion media, they were largely invisible.

Do you think the term "continuity" has changed so much since then that it's almost a totally different thing? Did the original fan zines, and then things like Official Handbooks, Encyclopedias, and especially the internet start charting universes and characters to such a minute detail that the term "continuity" in the Silver Age and and now can be applied to both in the same way?

What I mean is, for sure, you're right, there were fans of Alan Scott and Jay Garrick. But the continuity for them at that point was more like a brief bio: name, occupation, where they live, powers, maybe main love interest. Or was there more changing going on from issue to issue and year to year than I am realizing? Maybe I am seeing them as almost totally static and they were more dynamic than I realize.

[BatmanJones]

I think the reason that Schwartz's reboot succeeded where later ones all (to some degree) failed because Schwartz was able to move forward without disrespecting the past. When Barry Allen and Hal Jordan first appeared, they did not diminish Jay Garrick and Alan Scott. Subsequent reboot attempts ALL made the mistake of not respecting the past, which saddled the reboot with the burden of resentful fans of the older characters/continuity.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Agreed. And I saw that you made my point more eloquently in an earlier post. Nicely done.

Your point here is well made and I think it goes a step further. Schwartz didn't have to honor the past at all. For reasons you cited he was off the hook that way. And then he chose to do it anyway. And in a way that made every single story "in continuity." That remained the case right up to 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths, DC's 'original sin' with regard to continuity.

Before it, every story had happened in continuity. Ever since it, continuity/what's canon has changed with every blowing wind/Crisis, each "enema" as Didio put it so Didioesquely. Everything was perfect wrt continuity right up to 1985 when DC decided to saw its rich history in half. If only they'd allowed Marv Wolfman to use his reported 'exit strategy,' meant to put things back how they were before the Crisis. He had one for this very reason.

My hope for the Rebirth/Doomsday Clock storyline is that it makes everything canon again and puts the OG JSA back on its own earth where it belongs.

[The Dying Detective]

My hope for the Rebirth/Doomsday Clock storyline is that it makes everything canon again and puts the OG JSA back on its own earth where it belongs.

As cool as that would be Post Crisis has not been kind to Wonder Woman as it made her cast of Steve Trevor and Etta Candy were rendered unusable so not everything should be canon again.

[Buried Alien]

As cool as that would be Post Crisis has not been kind to Wonder Woman as it made her cast of Steve Trevor and Etta Candy were rendered unusable so not everything should be canon again.

Not everything CAN be canon because some of the published continuity/stories irreconcilably contradict other published continuity/stories. We can only hope that as the continuity is culled and reshaped, they'll make sound selections that reflect the most reasonable and most popular historical stories.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Trey Strain]

If you're a writer or an editor who's doing a reboot, then remember that it's not about you. Just get rid of what's stopping people from buying the comic. You can add a few supporting characters, but don't tell us that the star has a super-hero brother who we never knew about or that the Joker killed his parents.

Let your good stories be the only things that are about you.

[Trey Strain]

Selling is about removing people's objections to buying. That's what reboots should be about too, but they never are.

[Daniel22]

If you're a writer or an editor who's doing a reboot, then remember that it's not about you. Just get rid of what's stopping people from buying the comic. You can add a few supporting characters, but don't tell us that the star has a super-hero brother who we never knew about or that the Joker killed his parents.

Let your good stories be the only things that are about you.

What do you mean by an author making it about themselves? What are some examples of that? I've heard that term used but I don't really understand what people mean by it.

[Trey Strain]

What do you mean by an author making it about themselves? What are some examples of that? I've heard that term used but I don't really understand what people mean by it.

I mean gratuitously screwing around with the fundamentals of the comic. I don't want to rag on specific writers, so I gave the hypothetical example of not telling us that the star has a super-hero brother who we never knew about or that the Joker killed his parents.

That's making the comic about you, because you're hoping that when people talk about the comic 50 years from now, they'll mention that you introduced that stuff.

[Daniel22]

I mean gratuitously screwing around with the fundamentals of the comic. I don't want to rag on specific writers, so I gave the hypothetical example of not telling us that the star has a super-hero brother who we never knew about or that the Joker killed his parents.

That's making the comic about you, because you're hoping that when people talk about the comic 50 years from now, they'll mention that you introduced that stuff.

It's when the writer add something to the backstory, as opposed to the present?

[Trey Strain]

It's when the writer add something to the backstory, as opposed to the present?

Mostly, yes. But what they need to focus on is taking out the rubbish that has accumulated over the years.

For example,. if I were to reboot Green Lantern, I'd have the four Earth Lanterns get their rings at the same time and call them equals, and I'd leave it for someone else to deal with Baz and Cruz. And I'd firmly establish Sinestro as the piece's primal villain because I hate the effort to turn him into a hero.

That's not gratuitous. It's designed to generate better stories and to sell more comics. That's what the writer needs to do.