Are Marvel and DC necessary for the future of comic?

[Starter Set]

In America maybe, in the rest of the world they are pretty much irrelevant.

[DrNewGod]

Well that's not good though DC might go down before that even happens. Along with Marvel anyway.

As long as films from their IP can generate 9 figure revenues (before we even discuss merchandising sales), those imprints are not "going down" any time soon.

[The Dying Detective]

In America maybe, in the rest of the world they are pretty much irrelevant.

They're not that irrelevant in my country but we're an uncreative bunch.

[JackDaw]

For me, it’s a complete “no brainer”. DC and Marvel are important purveyors of American super hero comics. If they went bust tomorrow there would be a massive gap in that segment of the market. But comics would continue to thrive...because they are a wonderful way to tell stories, and there are many other markets segments (other than American super heroes).

I actually confidently await a new glorious age of comics in next ten years: I think software will come onto market that will allow writers to create their own graphics quickly and relatively cheaply.

[Starter Set]

They're not that irrelevant in my country but we're an uncreative bunch.

Let's face it, the ones really selling papers for the last 2 decades have been the Japanese. American comic books sells outside of north America now? Hell, has anyone even a number about it or is that such a non-factor that no one cares?

Trades do a bit better i guess but well...

[Carabas]

[QUOTE=The Dying Detective;3436079]Right but aren't most properties made by Marvel and DC company property..."
Yes. Part of the already mentioned crappy business practices of Marvel and DC. There is absolutely no reason why this should be so beyond greed.

...except for the characters for the New Age of DC Superheroes imprint they are creator owned which is even getting a push on the telly and movie theaters.

Nothing creator-owned about them as far as I can tell.

And if Marvel and DC go down no one is going to see all those old guys anymore...

1) I wouldn't care.
2) It's all owned by Time Warner and Disney now. And even if they weren't other publishers would buy up those rights. It's not going away.

So that leaves the throne free for the next guy to take it my bet is Image or even Archie but even those guys don't seem capable enough because I heard they're just as stumped on how to proceed.

They might be less stumped if they didn't have to compete with two megacorporation-fueled superhero juggernauts.

...Ring Colony.

Ehrm...you lost me.

[Osiris-Rex]

I posted once in the Marvel forum that the comics industry looks exactly like a natural monopoly, and that it would make sense for Disney to buy DC Entertainment from Time Warner. The smaller companies would probably survive and do better under those conditions.

I think DC Entertainment is just one box-office disaster away from that happening.

The DC TV shows in total make almost as much as the movies in total. Last year the TV shows made over $1 billion. The movies $1.48 billion. And as for toys the DC Super Hero Girls line alone
is an over $1 billion enterprise. DC Entertainment would still survive even if there were no movies. It would be idiotic to sell DC to Disney when TV and toys make so much money for Warner Bros
just because some movie flops at the box office.

[The Dying Detective]

Yes. Part of the already mentioned crappy business practices of Marvel and DC. There is absolutely no reason why this should be so beyond greed.

Nothing creator-owned about them as far as I can tell.

1) I wouldn't care.
2) It's all owned by Time Warner and Disney now. And even if they weren't other publishers would buy up those rights. It's not going away.

They might be less stumped if they didn't have to compete with two megacorporation-fueled superhero juggernauts.

Ehrm...you lost me. Ehrm...you lost me.

True but they would be sitting pretty if they didn't cheat all the writers and artists out their hard earned pay I would say divine judgement has fallen on them. Well the New Age of DC Superheroes is allegedly creator owned only time will tell if they don't mess it up. I agree with those points except I want to enter the industry but not under either stooge. Well Archie has remained strong they even rebooted with more success than Marvel and DC and they did well until now. I was referring to the Ring Colony from Ring of Gundam. Remember the illustration I posted from Ring of Gundam? I might write fanfiction story similar to Ring of Gundam and call it Ring of Heroes and Villains the story where the universe discovers that the memories of Marvel and DC's superheroes and villains not needed to find the way to the future. With the right backing I could turn it into a comic an send out a nice statement to either company.

[The Dying Detective]

Let's face it, the ones really selling papers for the last 2 decades have been the Japanese. American comic books sells outside of north America now? Hell, has anyone even a number about it or is that such a non-factor that no one cares?

Trades do a bit better i guess but well...

I don't know they sell pretty well in my local book store from what I have seen. But I am all for jump starting a creative revolution over here we're just a Third World Country trying to play dress up as a First World Country.

[The Dying Detective]

For me, it’s a complete “no brainer”. DC and Marvel are important purveyors of American super hero comics. If they went bust tomorrow there would be a massive gap in that segment of the market. But comics would continue to thrive...because they are a wonderful way to tell stories, and there are many other markets segments (other than American super heroes).

I actually confidently await a new glorious age of comics in next ten years: I think software will come onto market that will allow writers to create their own graphics quickly and relatively cheaply.

Well aren't we optimistic but yet some look to Marvel and DC as leaders of the industry and have even said that their health determines the health of the industry is it an exaggeration? Possibly.

[mojotastic]

In America maybe, in the rest of the world they are pretty much irrelevant.

HA!

good joke man, thank to the movies comic shops started to appear in my city in South America, A COMIC SHOP, and i dont even live in the capital

[The Dying Detective]

HA!

good joke man, thank to the movies comic shops started to appear in my city in South America, A COMIC SHOP, and i dont even live in the capital

Do they sell well?

[MRP]

The American direct market is a reactionary one, publishers sell what people buy, hence print runs tailored to preorders. Comic fans get what comics their buying patterns deserve. In order for there to be a change (gradual or otherwise) customers in the American comic book market would have to to change their buying patterns away from Marvel and DC. As currently constituted, Marvel and DC are absolutely necessary for the survival of the direct market and comic shops becaue they combined make up about 75% or more of the sales in that market.

But the direct market is not comics. There are lots of comics out there that do well outside the purview of Diamond distribution. Many of the major book publishers now have graphic novel imprints, publish graphic novels under their own imprint and otherwise sell comics in some form or another (just not monthly single issues of 20 pages of content).

Comics will survive just fine without Marvel and DC, but the direct market won't. Most comic shops won't either unless they survive via the book trade rather than on monthly "floppies" and the format of the monthly floppy would probably disappear without Marvel and DC as well since it only sells in the direct market targeted at hardcore fans of those two companies.

Some people equate the direct market and monthly periodical comics with comics as a whole. They are not. Comics would still be comics, they would just be packaged, formatted and sold in different venues. The only place you would continue to see single issues would be from small publishers and self-publishers selling at cons (shows like APE and SPACE and other small press expos, not things like Wizard World, SDCC, etc.), via online outlets, or digitally, i.e. the people who are doing it now outside the direct market already.

-M

[The Dying Detective]

The American direct market is a reactionary one, publishers sell what people buy, hence print runs tailored to preorders. Comic fans get what comics their buying patterns deserve. In order for there to be a change (gradual or otherwise) customers in the American comic book market would have to to change their buying patterns away from Marvel and DC. As currently constituted, Marvel and DC are absolutely necessary for the survival of the direct market and comic shops becaue they combined make up about 75% or more of the sales in that market.

But the direct market is not comics. There are lots of comics out there that do well outside the purview of Diamond distribution. Many of the major book publishers now have graphic novel imprints, publish graphic novels under their own imprint and otherwise sell comics in some form or another (just not monthly single issues of 20 pages of content).

Comics will survive just fine without Marvel and DC, but the direct market won't. Most comic shops won't either unless they survive via the book trade rather than on monthly "floppies" and the format of the monthly floppy would probably disappear without Marvel and DC as well since it only sells in the direct market targeted at hardcore fans of those two companies.

Some people equate the direct market and monthly periodical comics with comics as a whole. They are not. Comics would still be comics, they would just be packaged, formatted and sold in different venues. The only place you would continue to see single issues would be from small publishers and self-publishers selling at cons (shows like APE and SPACE and other small press expos, not things like Wizard World, SDCC, etc.), via online outlets, or digitally, i.e. the people who are doing it now outside the direct market already.

-M

So in other words while comics themselves may survive but the industry will collapse hard and it might be just as badd as it was back when that Dr. Wertham preached the dangers of comics and everyone went ballistic but he wasn't wrong there was a ton of graphic content even back then.

[MRP]

So in other words while comics themselves may survive but the industry will collapse hard and it might be just as badd as it was back when that Dr. Wertham preached the dangers of comics and everyone went ballistic but he wasn't wrong there was a ton of graphic content even back then.

No. Super-hero comics are not the entirety of the comics industry. Marvel and DC make up part of the industry, the part that focuses on super-hero content sold in monthly installments. This is the focus on the direct market (Phil Seuling set up the direct market with others in the early 70s to make it easier to sell Marvel and DC comics to fans outside of newsstand distribution, it has always been Marvel and DC focused). In the 80s other publishers began using the direct market to bring books to the market outside of newsstands and sell to the hardcore comic audience. Later int he 80s the economics of the newsstand collapsed on itself and by the 90s it was gone leaving the direct market the only place to buy comics in the American market until the explosion of the trade paperback format brought comics back to the mass market in bookstores, but Marvel and Dc still dominated the content of that).

However, the direct market was never designed as an outreach market meant to attract new customers to it, it was always about selling to customers who already knew what they wanted (hence the non-returnability model working which is wouldn't if you were trying to stock material for potential new customers which might not sell). However, the sale of comics in the book market has taken on a life of its own in America and book publishers have tapped into the market making the comics industry something bigger than super-hero comics (it always was, but the focus had been on the capes and tights crowd and their customer base). Marvel and Dc are not the comics industry. They are the biggest players in the direct market, but the direct market is not the industry. The industry would survive, but the model it operates under would have to evolve, especially compensation models for creators (they would likely have to move to advances and royalties to creators the way book publishers do rather than page rates the way the Marvel and DC do). But the industry needs to evolve anyways. In needs to create infrastructure to create new readers. It needs to evolve its business practices because as it is currently constituted it is a 20th century dinosaur trying to operate in a 21st century marketplace with business practices that are outmoded and impractical in that marketplace. The industry wouldn't collapse, it would need to evolve to adapt to the changes in the marketplace that have occurred. That's what all businesses have to do.

-M