Are the X-Books still reflective of the real world?

[Knives]

Yes the X-books still represent a lot of what happens in the modern world but of course for the metaphor to continue to work and sell sometimes marvel goes a little too far.

[924COLLECTIVE]

Very true, but sometimes Marvel doesn't go far enough. I remember the North Star/ Kyle wedding being
front page news on USA TODAY, a big political statement, then both characters vanished from existence.
If Marvel are going to make such grand gestures it is not smart to use them as simply marketing tactics.

[CraigTheCylon]

Kinda yes, kinda no.

The spike in visible, violent xenophobia of recent years ultimately plays into themes the X-books have been dealing in forever, and it's no shock to see them leaning further into real-world parallels, or at least ones more current than Magneto banging on about Hitler for the umpteenth time (man, I spent SO LONG wishing an X-book would come up with a new villainous paradigm for bigotry that represented the more invisible but no less hateful crimes of the 21st century, only for reality to openly bring back the Nazis and make the effort pointless...). That being said, I feel like the world at large has grown more savvy about calling racism or sexism or homophobia what it is instead of making feeble excuses...but unfortunately, the X-books feel way behind the curve there. Maybe it's the simple truth that suffering and misery make for better drama, but at a time when Black Lives Matter and #TimesUp are forces no-one can ignore, it's pretty sad that we've never seen a mutant equivalent.

And no, because I know some of you are already rushing to correct me, I don't think Cyclops' out-of-nowhere public speech at the end of Bendis' Uncanny counts. Because it came out of nowhere, was preceded by 30+ issues of the usual mutant hate train, and wasn't followed up on by the writer or anyone since (typical Bendis move: introduce an interesting concept but bail immediately afterward and leave someone else to work it out properly).

[wano]

Very true, but sometimes Marvel doesn't go far enough. I remember the North Star/ Kyle wedding being
front page news on USA TODAY, a big political statement, then both characters vanished from existence.
If Marvel are going to make such grand gestures it is not smart to use them as simply marketing tactics.

It wasn't such a great political statement in my opinion, we should see such marriages as the rule not the exception. Also northstar and Kyle had been dating for a while

[remydat]

While there is still a lot of racism in the world, it is not to the level that is shown in the comics particularly as it relates to the developed world and their governments. A lot of the racist and xenophobic elements are from individual citizens and organizations not the government. Even a guy like Trump who says incredibly offensive things still operates in a framework were there is only so much he can do to effect any sort of racist agenda.

The way things play out in Marvel is more of a caricature of the real world rather than a true representation. There are some core elements and underlying themes than ring true but are exaggerated.

[Jiminy_Cricket]

I think the whole Cassandra Nova angle in X-Men Red is very clever. People are still as ignorant and prejudice as ever, however in general they are more careful not to outwardly show it.

Cassandra is acting as a trigger to cause all the hate to spill over. You could argue that Cassandra is a metaphor for the Alt-Right.

[Xaviers Dream]

You might be inclined to agree with him if it had been someone you cared about being killed in one of the X-Men's numerous scraps.

While this is true, it is also the foundation of discrimination where someone projects the actions of a few onto a whole group of "others". Recall the father of an ex-girlfriend saying that he did not like black people because he was beaten up by some. I blurted out that I was beaten up by a white guy, so I wondered if I should hate whites. For the record, we are both white. I think I made my point and I am so glad I did not end up marrying into that family.

I read the preview for Red, but I won't get my issue until Saturday as I made the trek to my local shop every other week.

It seems to be an exaggeration in XMR where the mother pulls a gun to kill her daughter but it used to be common place for parents to kick out kids that turn out gay. Mothers have murdered their kids for religious reasons as well.

But I think it was mostly done for dramatic effect that is common in superhero conflicts. If two heroes have a disagreement, it frequently comes to blows before everything goes back to normal. However in real life that would cause at least simmering resentments if not criminal charges.

I think X-Men best handle discrimination as a parable but allow a conversation about it. Last night, I reread X-Men # 210 where there was two different conflicts. The first about Rogue at Bloomingdale's, but it was between a man in a business suit and a window washer that she rescued. The second was Kitty, Colossus, and Magic in civilian clothes confronting a mob trying to kill Nightcrawler. Kitty battled them using only words and while she did not change their mind she did cause them to give up their goal and depart.

It is less impactful when the mob is just beat with powers. It does not show the audience how to use the power of words to combat hate.

[924COLLECTIVE]

The United States of America is occupied territory.

The Native American Reservations were the model for the concentration camps.
It is interesting how quickly people conveniently forget they are living on stolen
land, and Indigenous Americans have been quietly eradicated for the last 500 years and counting...

[AcesX1X]

While there is still a lot of racism in the world, it is not to the level that is shown in the comics particularly as it relates to the developed world and their governments. A lot of the racist and xenophobic elements are from individual citizens and organizations not the government. Even a guy like Trump who says incredibly offensive things still operates in a framework were there is only so much he can do to effect any sort of racist agenda.

The way things play out in Marvel is more of a caricature of the real world rather than a true representation. There are some core elements and underlying themes than ring true but are exaggerated.

according to the southern poverty law center, there were 43 killed and 67 injured by the so-called "alt-right," which is based on a report published by them this week.

in addition, the anti-violence project recently reported that violent crime -- not trolling, or shaming --- violent crime against lgbt have spiked 86% in the United States since this time last year.

further, with "the wall" still looming large in public conversation, DACA being threatened as we speak, and elected officials publicly calling for dreamers to be arrested if they showed up to the state of the union, i would argue that it is us who have become caricatures of ourselves, and not the comics that are being written as a caricature of reality.

[Knives]

Kinda yes, kinda no.

The spike in visible, violent xenophobia of recent years ultimately plays into themes the X-books have been dealing in forever, and it's no shock to see them leaning further into real-world parallels, or at least ones more current than Magneto banging on about Hitler for the umpteenth time (man, I spent SO LONG wishing an X-book would come up with a new villainous paradigm for bigotry that represented the more invisible but no less hateful crimes of the 21st century, only for reality to openly bring back the Nazis and make the effort pointless...). That being said, I feel like the world at large has grown more savvy about calling racism or sexism or homophobia what it is instead of making feeble excuses...but unfortunately, the X-books feel way behind the curve there. Maybe it's the simple truth that suffering and misery make for better drama, but at a time when Black Lives Matter and #TimesUp are forces no-one can ignore, it's pretty sad that we've never seen a mutant equivalent.

And no, because I know some of you are already rushing to correct me, I don't think Cyclops' out-of-nowhere public speech at the end of Bendis' Uncanny counts. Because it came out of nowhere, was preceded by 30+ issues of the usual mutant hate train, and wasn't followed up on by the writer or anyone since (typical Bendis move: introduce an interesting concept but bail immediately afterward and leave someone else to work it out properly).

Comics always get stuck to the status quo but I agree that they should work with certain ideas in the long run but every time a new writer comes around everything back to square one.

In Bendis's case although not like the ending we had some interesting ideas and a good part of the human population was supporting the Cyclops revolution. In the words of Bendis himself some were surprised by the support that Cyclops received at the end of AvX and that although some considered him a terrorist others saw him as some kind of popular Che Guevara-type figure.

uncanny-x-men_10_panebujmt.jpg

uncanny-x-men-v3-001-006.jpg

Of course everything was burned by marvel and Bendis but that was something new and interesting to watch for the X-mens before it became the equivalent of a mutant Hitler.

Jean is trying a different approach but I wish she could get some support from the people.

[Chaos Reigns]

While there is still a lot of racism in the world, it is not to the level that is shown in the comics particularly as it relates to the developed world and their governments. A lot of the racist and xenophobic elements are from individual citizens and organizations not the government. Even a guy like Trump who says incredibly offensive things still operates in a framework were there is only so much he can do to effect any sort of racist agenda.

The way things play out in Marvel is more of a caricature of the real world rather than a true representation. There are some core elements and underlying themes than ring true but are exaggerated.

That's nonsense. Governments around the world have used mass killing for centuries from the trans Atalanta slave trade, various genocidal episodes since the dawn of man. Just in the last 100 years we have had the holocaust, the Armenian genocide, the continued murder of different native nations. We have had black Wall Street, rosewood and a host of other attacks. If anything the mutants have had it easier in some respects because they are fairly new at the oppression Olympics.

[bat39]

Well, the 'mutant metaphor' has always been pretty flawed...for the simple reason that mutants, unlike members of any persecuted real-world minority throughout history, can pose an actual threat to the physical safety of those around them.

In fact, the only thing close to conventional 'bigotry' mutants face is in terms of their being discriminated against while many other superpowered beings are hailed as heroes by the populace of the MU.

[Wiccan]

You might be inclined to agree with him if it had been someone you cared about being killed in one of the X-Men's numerous scraps.

I would, and it would be understandable, but I would still be wrong. That's like the same as hating all muslims because of ISIS.

[darkblue]

I think the X-Men metaphor still works in the modern world. A handful of countries in Africa and the Middle East it is still punishable by imprisonment or death to be gay. Certain faiths are outlawed around the world and the practice of the faith is again punishable by death.

[sungila]

I read the first few pages of X-men Red and I had to wonder. Are X-books still reflective of how the real world is in this day and age? I'm speaking in terms of just the blatant discrimination that occurs against mutants. In the era where we have multiple Women's Marches , pride marches Muslim protests, and the black lives matter movement it seems more or less that the majority of America would be on the side of mutants. Like I'd think the mutant discrimination the X-men would be less blantant than an angry mob with torch and pitchforks upon which a mother comes out and tries to cap her own little girl. Like I'd think if someone used the term "Mutie or freak" in the work place they'd be immediately fired. Thoughts?

The X-Men are a part of this real world and they are a PROPERTY owned by the same old real world bad guys that profit not just off the outright discrimination of others but cash in on the appropriation and exploitation of the 'plight' of the minorities they market. In many ways the X-Men have never been less reflective of the real world.

They are too pretty, too white, too privileged, too powerful, too militant, too young and too removed from the the everyday individual, national and global struggles of the vast majority of us all.

There is violence. This is violence glorified, vivified, personified and somehow made to appeal to the ideals of 'for a' purpose but never has it been less defined, more elusive, and more characterized as a personal figment than as a collective force for change.

Modern X-Books challenge this in single issues, arcs and extended runs by progressive creators (Spurrier, Liu, Milligan) that are hated or adored for their work. Morrison, Whedon and Bendis especially. (I haven't read PAD's X-Factor...that's important to note).

But as a group entity they're super heroes with super hero problems not individuals or even individual mutants and that's where perhaps the X-Men comic books have begun to return to the ANAD approach of unique individuals forming an ever new and ever different evolving group. As such the pacing of heightened BANG POW BOOM action and BANG POW BOOM statements is bound by the speed of life with more complicated and expansive relatable stories, vignettes, relationships and experiences.

I'm a big supporter of more titles, more creators, more voices and visions all coming out at one time. Let the flagship have its own continuity and the movies do what they have to do to be their thing...but the more titles and approaches, the more contradictions and contrasts in style, substance and theme the better. But does that approach sell?

And if it isn't marketable...is the real world marketable?

Just think about the prison system in America. Then read any issue from this week's new X-books releases. Perhaps it relates, but maybe that's you doing the bridge work and if so, maybe that's what's really important in this "real" world.