Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[Rheged]

When the book was launched, it had one woman, to four men. They dropped three women, two of whom were in a same-sex relationship, and one of whom was originally Vietnamese. Bendis did bring in Angela, and is currently using Captain Marvel, so it's gotten better compared to when it first launched. But the point remains that when it was first launched, what diversity it had was jettisoned.

Okay, with Mantis, are we counting minorities who have been painted another color? Or not? I'm confused about that, since we apparently aren't counting Zoe Saldana or Bautista as minorities since they are green. Are we counting Groot and Rocket Raccoon as men? And white men, at that? And Groot is a straight white man? Really??

Also Phylla and Moondragon, IIRC, were removed BEFORE the new series launched by DnA. As were Jack Flag, Adam Warlock, Starlord, and Major Victory, etc.

So, some of it's diversity was jettisoned, along with some of the white straight males, but certainly 'every bit of diversity' was NOT jettisoned, especially when we've had two more women added.

[Tiamatty]

Okay, with Mantis, are we counting minorities who have been painted another color? Or not? I'm confused about that, since we apparently aren't counting Zoe Saldana or Bautista as minorities since they are green. Are we counting Groot and Rocket Raccoon as men? And white men, at that? And Groot is a straight white man? Really??

Also Phylla and Moondragon, IIRC, were removed BEFORE the new series launched by DnA. As were Jack Flag, Adam Warlock, Starlord, and Major Victory, etc.

So, some of it's diversity was jettisoned, along with some of the white straight males, but certainly 'every bit of diversity' was NOT jettisoned, especially when we've had two more women added.

I would count Mantis as a minority, because she was originally Vietnamese. Same as I don't count Psylocke as a minority, because she was originally white.

Bautista and Saldana count as behind-the-scenes diversity, but not on-screen, because their characters don't belong to any real-world minority group.

Groot and Rocket are definitely men. Since they don't correspond to any real-world minority group, they don't count towards diversity.

As I recall, Flag, Bug, Victory and the others were all removed when the previous volume ended. Warlock was killed a bit earlier, Phyla was killed right before the series ended. Moondragon, Bug, Flag and Victory were basically members of the team until it ended. When DnA finished, the team as a whole was gone - hell, Drax was dead and Star-Lord was trapped in a dying universe with Thanos.

[Rheged]

I would count Mantis as a minority, because she was originally Vietnamese. Same as I don't count Psylocke as a minority, because she was originally white.

Bautista and Saldana count as behind-the-scenes diversity, but not on-screen, because their characters don't belong to any real-world minority group.

WOMEN ARE A MINORITY GROUP. They are the universal and very first minority group.

sigh

Groot and Rocket are definitely men. Since they don't correspond to any real-world minority group, they don't count towards diversity.

Groot is a tree, not a man. I'm not counting them toward diversity, but I'm certainly NOT going to count them as straight white men either.

As I recall, Flag, Bug, Victory and the others were all removed when the previous volume ended. Warlock was killed a bit earlier, Phyla was killed right before the series ended. Moondragon, Bug, Flag and Victory were basically members of the team until it ended. When DnA finished, the team as a whole was gone - hell, Drax was dead and Star-Lord was trapped in a dying universe with Thanos.

Right, so saying Bendis scrubbed the team of all diversity, isn't correct. When DNA started their version of GotG, it didn't have 3 women, either.

[Tiamatty]

WOMEN ARE A MINORITY GROUP. They are the universal and very first minority group.

sigh

I just find it odd calling women a minority when they actually make up slightly more than half the population. But OK, I meant I count Mantis as belonging to a racial minority, while Psylocke doesn't.

Groot is a tree, not a man. I'm not counting them toward diversity, but I'm certainly NOT going to count them as straight white men either.

The position I take regarding characters who don't belong to a real-world minority group is to essentially count them as part of the majority. So in the case of the Guardians, they had an initial cast of 5. One was a woman. None belonged to a real-world racial minority. So it had 20% diversity, 80% majority.

Right, so saying Bendis scrubbed the team of all diversity, isn't correct. When DNA started their version of GotG, it didn't have 3 women, either.

Well, I would actually say the studio scrubbed the diversity. Bendis was using the cast that was decided on for the movie.

[Kasper Cole]

it's not just about sheer numbers. Women are half the population but they're also an oppressed group globally. If it were just about numbers white people would be considered a minority globally.

[Tiamatty]

it's not just about sheer numbers. Women are half the population but they're also an oppressed group globally. If it were just about numbers white people would be considered a minority globally.

True. Like I said, it just feels weird.



As an aside, I found an article about Lady Thor that's one of the dumbest, most offensive things I've ever seen. Read it if you're feeling masochistic. There's not a single part of the whole thing that isn't complete and utter nonsense.

[Rheged]

I just find it odd calling women a minority when they actually make up slightly more than half the population. But OK, I meant I count Mantis as belonging to a racial minority, while Psylocke doesn't.

Then you don't understand what the word minority means in this context, and you're callously oblivious to the plight of women.

I wasn't just addressing Mantis (though I find it odd that she counts as a racial minority for you, even painted green, when folks are saying Zoe Saldana isn't a racial minority, cause she's painted green); I was speaking of your incredible claim that Gamora isn't part of a real life minority, i.e. WOMEN.

The position I take regarding characters who don't belong to a real-world minority group is to essentially count them as part of the majority. So in the case of the Guardians, they had an initial cast of 5. One was a woman. None belonged to a real-world racial minority. So it had 20% diversity, 80% majority.

Well, that's YOUR position. Weird diversity is obviously meant to count as something other than straight white male, so my position is I'm not counting a tree or a raccoon as straight white men, and I'm iffy on Drax -- that's not to say I'm counting Drax, Groot or Rocket on the diversity side, either.

20% Diversity isn't 'entirely scrubbing the team of diversity,' even using your counting method. DnA's team upon starting had 37% diversity, even using your counting method (8 members (with only one straight white male) with 3 of them minorities).

it's not just about sheer numbers. Women are half the population but they're also an oppressed group globally. If it were just about numbers white people would be considered a minority globally.

Thank you.

[Ajala]

it's not just about sheer numbers. Women are half the population but they're also an oppressed group globally. If it were just about numbers white people would be considered a minority globally.

Pretty much this.

And that reminds me. What people like to "forget" is that while white women and white lgbt's are technically minorities, they are noticeably better off their ethnic counterparts. And even ethnic males in many instances. Being a minority isn't a "zero sum game".

True. Like I said, it just feels weird.



As an aside, I found an article about Lady Thor that's one of the dumbest, most offensive things I've ever seen. Read it if you're feeling masochistic. There's not a single part of the whole thing that isn't complete and utter nonsense.

You just linked an article from The Spearhead. Single highhandedly the biggest advocates for MRA on the internet. Who in case you don't know are a bunch of whiny, concern-trolling, misogynistic, conservative, idiots. Who ignore any and all counter evidence, so they can act as though men are just as oppressed as women in the world.

[Tiamatty]

Then you don't understand what the word minority means in this context, and you're callously oblivious to the plight of women.

I wasn't just addressing Mantis (though I find it odd that she counts as a racial minority for you, even painted green, when folks are saying Zoe Saldana isn't a racial minority, cause she's painted green); I was speaking of your incredible claim that Gamora isn't part of a real life minority, i.e. WOMEN.

I disagree that I'm diminishing the plight of women. In general, I've probably talked more about gender diversity than racial diversity (maybe not in this specific thread, but in general).

The character of Mantis is Vietnamese, so she counts as a racial minority; Zoe Saldana, as an actor, belongs to a racial minority, but her character doesn't, so I see the movie as lacking racial diversity.

[Quicksilverfan]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I agree with the original post, that Marvel's push of women and minorities seems disingenuous to me (btw, I'm not an american white male). I would take their attempt to diversify their line seriously if they gave Falcon his own solo. And to really stress the point that Falcon is an important character, they could put him in 3000 books a month like they do with Wolverine and Hawkeye. Just having him pick up where Cap America feels cheap. As for lady Thor, I fail to see why they don't just push Valkyrie...or why there even needs to be a Thor comic if the original character is apparently on "vacation". I personally hate it when new characters pick up another's hero's mantle. It's like saying people read superhero comic titles for the costume and not the character wearing the costume.
Lastly, the issue with Marvel isn't just that their characters are predominantly white males, it's also that the majority of their artists and writers are white males. I wouldn't feel they were pandering if the company itself was diverse.

[Mr MajestiK]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I agree with the original post, that Marvel's push of women and minorities seems disingenuous to me (btw, I'm not an american white male). I would take their attempt to diversify their line seriously if they gave Falcon his own solo. And to really stress the point that Falcon is an important character, they could put him in 3000 books a month like they do with Wolverine and Hawkeye. Just having him pick up where Cap America feels cheap. As for lady Thor, I fail to see why they don't just push Valkyrie...or why there even needs to be a Thor comic if the original character is apparently on "vacation". I personally hate it when new characters pick up another's hero's mantle. It's like saying people read superhero comic titles for the costume and not the character wearing the costume.
Lastly, the issue with Marvel isn't just that their characters are predominantly white males, it's also that the majority of their artists and writers are white males. I wouldn't feel they were pandering if the company itself was diverse.

I'm just going to wait for the books to come out and read them myself before rushing to judgement.

Your points as regard the low percentage of diversity amongst Marvel's creative staff (specifically writers) is quite astute and as such, I agree with you 100%.

[ed2962]

Because they didn't promote the Marvel movies by only saying "Nick Fury is black in our movie!" over and over and over and over again.

Probably because...A) Nick Fury isn't the star of any of those movies, he's a supporting character B) The movies were following the version that was in the Ultimate where that version had been black for number years already. And in the case of Bryan Hitch's pencils, explicitly drawn to resemble Jackson. They even had to get permission to use his likeness and...C) If they'd advertised the movies that way, the general public would have been , "Nick who?"

[Tiamatty]

You just linked an article from The Spearhead. Single highhandedly the biggest advocates for MRA on the internet. Who in case you don't know are a bunch of whiny, concern-trolling, misogynistic, conservative, idiots. Who ignore any and all counter evidence, so they can act as though men are just as oppressed as women in the world.

Right. I'm just saying that, no matter our views, I think all of us in this thread can agree that the guys on that site are colossal douchebags, and that that article is so stupid and offensive that one has to wonder how the guy managed to write it when his keyboard must be smeared with his own feces.

[Kasper Cole]

I wasn't just addressing Mantis (though I find it odd that she counts as a racial minority for you, even painted green, when folks are saying Zoe Saldana isn't a racial minority, cause she's painted green); I was speaking of your incredible claim that Gamora isn't part of a real life minority, i.e. WOMEN.

Zoe Saldana the actress is obviously a racial minority, but the character she plays is not. Same goes for Drax and Groot, the actors portraying them are POC but the characters themselves are aliens.

For instance you wouldn't say in X-Men: DOFP that Kitty Pryde and Magneto count as LGBTQ characters because the actors portraying them are gay.

[Mr MajestiK]

Zoe Saldana the actress is obviously a racial minority, but the character she plays is not. Same goes for Drax and Groot, the actors portraying them are POC but the characters themselves are aliens.

For instance you wouldn't say in X-Men: DOFP that Kitty Pryde and Magneto count as LGBTQ characters because the actors portraying them are gay.

Interesting (and very accurate) analogy.