Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[ImBatman]

Again, this isn't about pandering to minorities; don't insult Marvel -- and worse, yourself -- like that. Captain America is such a poignant symbol; having Sam Wilson take up the mantle is Marvel making a statement about what America is/should be IMO.

I do agree that generating new characters from scratch would be ideal -- but this is Marvel, where the pantheon has pretty much been set in stone since the 70's. It's extremely difficult to create ANY new characters with staying power, period.

Bucky Barnes was running around as Captain America not too long ago. I didn't buy Barnes as Captain America, so I dropped the book.

Now, I'm supposed to be happy and make a big deal because they dressed up a black character as Captain America? No, it doesn't work that way for me. To me, this is just a PR stunt.

[Kieran_Frost]

That has more to do with the too many options. This is not just a diversity issue. If they really want to give new characters a chance they have to take some other characters off the board. Swapping identities is just a cheat to get people to still buy, partly because it is hopefully a good story but also to see how the original character returns. Once they return, and the fill in has to move on, I do not think it is any easier to sell that character. If the intention is to launch a Falcon solo in two years, I do not know if the chances are any better now or then if the choice is still going to be does the reader want to buy Falcon in addition to Captain America. Now, maybe Marvel will have the guts to cancel Captain America and have Sam Wilson go back to his Falcon identity with his own title, but I do not see that happening.

Massively disagree. Daken taking over Dark Wolverine lead to a second volume (the first EVER time an LGBT solo star got a second volume). Loki taking over Journey into Mystery lead to Young Avengers and his new solo series. Bucky taking over Captain America lead to his own solo series. Herc taking over Incredible Hulk lead to a very successful run, a mini-event and a new solo series. It doesn't necessarily make them smash hits or even produce a successful solo series afterwards (almost nothing will make a new character profitable enough to rival Spiderman or Wolverine, regardless of what you do), BUT in all four cases it put them on the map! It lead to bigger roles, more prominance, so the next time, and the time after that, they could make and sustain a comic. They can bring in more fans to a team comic, they can add to diversity in a substantial way. And isn't that the goal? To help build up characters in prominence, that (down the line) they are known enough and popular enough to add serious money to Marvel's profits?

This adds HUGE prominence to Falcon. Will it mean his next solo series is a smash hit? Probably not. Will it mean he might start leading an Avengers team, play a bigger role in events, increase his fan base far more through this prominence than he ever would have with just a solo series called Falcon? HELLS YES! And that we should celebrate!

[numberthirty]

It seems like the real question might be: "Who is looking too hard for something to be offended by?"

[PwrdOn]

You seem to have ignored James Rhodes in Iron man, Nick Fury (the original was white) in almost all Marvel movies, Sam Wilson in Captain America and Idris Elba as Heimdall (despite the fact that he's white in the comics) and as per the Jewish part- Robert Downey Jr is of partial Jewish origin (from his father's side).

All in all, Marvel movies have been very progressive when it comes to race.

Progressivism isn't about filling quotas, it's about imparting your stories with themes that challenge the prevailing social order and break with conventions. The Marvel films do none of those things, I'm sure Dick Cheney shed a single tear when he heard Tony's line about "privatizing world peace."

[Conway]

Apparently, there is no way at this point that I can expect people to not automatically say that I'm calling for less "minorities". Even though my comments are light-hearted complaints at overreaching by the marketing department and my signature tells you not to take me seriously, somehow I'm claiming that "minorities" don't deserve to be in comics.

I think turning a latina child into a black child (while possibly an artist problem) is something that deserves mentioning. I think that announcing a female character will become Thor on The View is blatant pandering and the fact that it can only be temporary is insulting to those female readers marketing is trying to attract with that move (I also doubt that any story so obviously dreamed up by marketing can really be good). I think that using Colbert to try and tell the hipsters that you're more inclusive because you let a black guy wear the shield for a while is blatant pimping.

Do I think that Sam will be a good Cap? Yes, for as long as they'll let him before Steve comes back.
Do I think that Nick Jr. will prove to be just as secretive and as bad ass as his dad? Of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't a PC move made by the marketing dept that wanted a black character in their movies.
Do I think Storm deserves a book? Yes, but I'm starting to think she got it because people complained about a lack of diversity and not because of the content of her character.

[Username taken]

Progressivism isn't about filling quotas, it's about imparting your stories with themes that challenge the prevailing social order and break with conventions. The Marvel films do none of those things, I'm sure Dick Cheney shed a single tear when he heard Tony's line about "privatizing world peace."

Giving minorities and female characters prominent roles in their movies is filling quotas?

Yeaaahhh, I'm not debating this.

[Darrell D.]

At this point, all that's left is more minority creators as well as more of an LGBT presence character wise. And you know, even more POCs.

That would be great...especially on the creator side.

[aja_christopher]

Progressivism isn't about filling quotas, it's about imparting your stories with themes that challenge the prevailing social order and break with conventions. The Marvel films do none of those things, I'm sure Dick Cheney shed a single tear when he heard Tony's line about "privatizing world peace."

Now, now... this is Marvel we're talking about, not Fantagraphics.

Let's be honest here -- Marvel is far more likely to go the way of Disney than Miramax with regards to their movies, and given the fact that Disney can afford to buy both Marvel and Miramax (among others) who can blame them?

Maybe one day we'll get a Marvel "MAX" movie line or something similar (or a "Vertigo" movie line out of DC) but for now these companies are just cashing in on the popular comic book craze, which is what all smart businesses do... at least for the short term.

I'll reserve comment on the long game until I see the bigger picture, but for now Marvel is playing it as well as could be expected, and even throwing in a few surprises (Guardians movie and Big Hero 6) along the way.

[Darrell D.]

The women exist purley to be love interests and the black characters are mostly side kicks.

Black Widow was just a love interest? I seem to recall her kick much tail, and she didn't moon over a male character...you may not have watched the same movies...
And Falcon and War Machine in the movies were very well represented.

[Darrell D.]

It seems like the real question might be: "Who is looking too hard for something to be offended by?"

To be truthful, it really is probably a small percentage that are upset about these changes. Most fans understand how the real world works, and how changing demographics impact real life.

[Kuwagaton]

I think that announcing a female character will become Thor on The View is blatant pandering and the fact that it can only be temporary is insulting to those female readers marketing is trying to attract with that move (I also doubt that any story so obviously dreamed up by marketing can really be good).

Well, I do agree with this part. I'm not as opposed to it as I was yesterday, but I don't like how Marvel went about it and I'm not expecting any massive success story unless they pull pre-order shenanigans.

Do I think Storm deserves a book? Yes, but I'm starting to think she got it because people complained about a lack of diversity and not because of the content of her character.

I kind of think Storm was in line before Nightcrawler at least, but the timing doesn't always work out the same way.

[Mecegirl]

Meh. It could be worse.



So long as it's written well I don't see the problem. They keep having to make the characters younger and younger just to justify having them keep the mantel. So in an odd way its either shake things up with changes like this, or keep pretending that time has passed and yet time hasn't passed because at the very least the mortal characters should be old enough to retire (if not be dead. but by all means lets keep softly rebooting the same exact character every decade).

[Ceebiro]

Bucky Barnes was running around as Captain America not too long ago. I didn't buy Barnes as Captain America, so I dropped the book.

Now, I'm supposed to be happy and make a big deal because they dressed up a black character as Captain America? No, it doesn't work that way for me. To me, this is just a PR stunt.

This kinds of moves are clearly not designed for the Marvel faithful but for people waiting on the fringes of the company or the medium entirely. Yes, it's a PR stunt, but how else do comics get recognition on a national level without PR stunts? And no, it's not just quality art and writing.

[Darrell D.]

This kinds of moves are clearly not designed for the Marvel faithful but for people waiting on the fringes of the company or the medium entirely. Yes, it's a PR stunt, but how else do comics get recognition on a national level without PR stunts? And no, it's not just quality art and writing.

Both Cap and Thor have been in 3 big blockbuster films each. Of course they are going to promote these changes; the general audience have heard of them, and it's a good idea to maybe get some of them to go ' Hmm! Maybe I will check that out!'
How is this a bad thing?

[Ceebiro]

Well might I mention Generation X? Or Claremonts All New All Different X-men, or New-Mutants/X-force? Or Bishop and Gambit?

The characters have been in between 90 to well over 100 issues, Gen-X having 75 isses not counting annuels and guest appearances and team ups, Which was not easy in the crowded 90's market many of theses characters had and still have loyal fans.

Crowded as the 90s was, it was still tremendously easier for even a mediocre book to sell substantial numbers. Now, Spider-man doesn't sell more than 80K-90K per issue. The X-Men sell even less and these are two of Marvel's major franchises here. No major solo character at Marvel, excluding Spider-man, sells anywhere near those 80-90K. Heck, even 60K is a stretch. I think Deadpool is closest at 50K and he's getting a boost from being tied to Original Sin.

It was easier for books to find an audience when comics were less than $4 a pop and they could be found in checkout aisles or on newstands.