Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[Tazirai]

The thing to remember in all this: when other stuff is getting announced all the time that stars white dudes, none of you feel like it's "pandering." Readers who aren't white dudes, though, they notice that. It's what happens in a community like this where one specific type of person is the "default."

Awesomely put. Change takes time, and sometimes even the most liberal minded person, can turn ultra conservative, when they they they are losing something to the "Other". Well put mate.

[whiterabbit]

no, just because a move isn't targeting white people doesn't make it a gimmick or "trying too hard". in the past 24 hours a bunch of my friends, that doesn't normally read comics, have been sharing the story about Falcon taking up the mantle of Captain America and how cool it was to see a black hero be taken seriously. The comic industry has struggled to really get minority heroes off the ground, and this is a great way of doing so. I mean it worked with Miles Morales and Nick Fury.

You do realize Sam Wilson and this female Thor will not be in these roles next year when the Avengers 2 hits, right? The difference between Miles and Nick Fury is that they can take their roles and make it their own permanent thing. Steve Rogers and Thor are Captain America and Thor... John Walker, Bucky Barnes, Jake Olson and Eric Masterson all tried to take up these mantles.

[Username taken]

no, just because a move isn't targeting white people doesn't make it a gimmick or "trying too hard". in the past 24 hours a bunch of my friends, that doesn't normally read comics, have been sharing the story about Falcon taking up the mantle of Captain America and how cool it was to see a black hero be taken seriously. The comic industry has struggled to really get minority heroes off the ground, and this is a great way of doing so. I mean it worked with Miles Morales and Nick Fury.

Agreed.

And I might add that when Bucky or John Walker became Captain America there little outrage.

There were no allegations of gimmick or PC or trying too hard back then.

[hondobrode]

I think Moon Knight needs to be replaced by a Pakistani.

Jarvis retires and is replaced by a Latino.

Hawkeye takes a break and is replaced by a Phillipino.

Black Widow is too old and replaced by a Native American.

Sub-Mariner retires and is replaced by a Samoan.

Captain Britain is replaced by an African-American Englishman.

I am so sick of all the same characters we've been reading about for decades. Shake things up a little bit. America is a rich melting pot from all four corners. Step it up Marvel.

[JackDaw]

You do realize Sam Wilson and this female Thor will not be in these roles next year when the Avengers 2 hits, right? The difference between Miles and Nick Fury is that they can take their roles and make it their own permanent thing. Steve Rogers and Thor are Captain America and Thor... John Walker, Bucky Barnes, Jake Olson and Eric Masterson all tried to take up these mantles.

What could happen, though, is that the characters temporary change could lead to long term changes in their views and behaviour.

If female Thor is not a new character but the original guy having his sex changed (by Loki for a prank? Certainly that would be true to spirit of original Norse mythology) it might lead to a lot of fun...and also changing Thor's own ways of looking at things on gender related issues far into future.

And as a comic fan, not that bothered who's in films...if that's crucial we'd have far fewer takes on characters, and less interesting comics. I don't, for example, expect to see anybody except Peter Parker as Spider-Man in a film anytime soon...even though you yourself see Miles as a main player.

[whiterabbit]

Agreed.

And I might add that when Bucky or John Walker became Captain America there little outrage.

There were no allegations of gimmick or PC or trying too hard back then.

This is, in one form or another, a gimmick. It's meant to grab attention, interest, and publicity and is meant to be a short term ordeal. Why else would they be so strongly promoting this on MSN news and the View? Do you honestly, in the bottom of your heart, believe that Steve Rogers and Thor will not be the title characters of their own books when the sequel to a movie that made $1.5 billion hits next year? What are new readers going to think jumping onto the books and seeing Thor is a woman and Captain America is Sam Wilson and not Steve Rogers?

It's fine if they want to forge this Thor girl her own hammer and give Sam Wilson a new suit and name, but these changes won't work as a permanent status quo.

[Username taken]

The problem with the industry is the default setting for the superhero is "straight, white male/female.

When this trend is bucked, lots of the fans become angry and restless because in their minds, a black Superman or a bi-racial Spider-man (the criticism of Miles Morales was particularly offensive to me because I'm also of mixed descent) or a black Captain America or gay Green Lantern doesn't feel right and is pandering to minorities.

Honestly, that form of thinking should be rejected because it has no place in the 21st century. Just turn on the TV, the world (and the U.S especially) is a lot more diverse than ever before, there are lots of people from diverse backgrounds playing prominent roles in practically everything. The next Star Wars movies have an amazingly diverse cast and even the gaming industry (Grand Theft Auto and Crysis comes to mind) is adding more diversity to their products. This isn't pandering, this is fact .

Now, I'm not going to kid myself and say that these characters will stay in these roles forever but there's absolutely nothing wrong with adding more diversity to superhero comics. They need to catch up with the times.

[Rheged]

Treating these characters as gimmicks is even more demeaning to the ethnicities and sexes than just ignoring them like they were doing.

I have to disagree. Ignoring minorities is rendering them invisible and non-existent. At least if horrible caricatures are put in the comics, at least they will get called on it, and things can start to change.

My problem isn't that the White Guys are being demoted, it's that marketing is using sex and skin color to promote the characters that they decided they couldn't sell just by writing good stories with them. When your pandering becomes so obvious it starts to take away from whatever real qualities these characters had in the first place that is something the company should be called out on.

And yet the companies aren't called out on their pandering to straight white guys by straight white guys. I certainly didn't see many straight white guys screaming about pandering or gimmicks when these covers came out.








I do have a few issues with race and gender swapping in comics, but pandering certainly isn't one of them. I figure, after 75 years of pandering to white straight males, it's time to move on and pander to other demographics.

[Rheged]

Agreed.

And I might add that when Bucky or John Walker became Captain America there little outrage.

There were no allegations of gimmick or PC or trying too hard back then.

Are you kidding? There was plenty of outrage about Bucky and John Walker. It just wasn't folks screaming about pandering and political correctness.

The bottom line is fans don't want the characters they like to be replaced. I certainly don't. It's just that when they are replaced by minorities, you get the ugly element coming out.

[Username taken]

Are you kidding? There was plenty of outrage about Bucky and John Walker. It just wasn't folks screaming about pandering and political correctness.

The bottom line is fans don't want the characters they like to be replaced. I certainly don't. It's just that when they are replaced by minorities, you get the ugly element coming out.

But that's my point, people scream pandering/PC and the outrage is much greater when its a minority.

Remember the Miles Morales outrage? I was stunned and embarassed by some of the comments i read on yahoo news, here on CBR and even from a retailer.

[Username taken]

This is, in one form or another, a gimmick. It's meant to grab attention, interest, and publicity and is meant to be a short term ordeal. Why else would they be so strongly promoting this on MSN news and the View? Do you honestly, in the bottom of your heart, believe that Steve Rogers and Thor will not be the title characters of their own books when the sequel to a movie that made $1.5 billion hits next year? What are new readers going to think jumping onto the books and seeing Thor is a woman and Captain America is Sam Wilson and not Steve Rogers?

It's fine if they want to forge this Thor girl her own hammer and give Sam Wilson a new suit and name, but these changes won't work as a permanent status quo.

Everything is a gimmick. It's not new in comics.

Whether its Bucky Cap, Wolverine dying, X-men dissolving e.t.c, it's all par for the course.

I understand people being pissed off that the big 3 are being changed, it's the allegations of pandering/PC that i have a problem with.

[the4thpip]

I think Moon Knight needs to be replaced by a Pakistani.

Jarvis retires and is replaced by a Latino.

Hawkeye takes a break and is replaced by a Phillipino.

Black Widow is too old and replaced by a Native American.

Sub-Mariner retires and is replaced by a Samoan.

Captain Britain is replaced by an African-American Englishman.

I am so sick of all the same characters we've been reading about for decades. Shake things up a little bit. America is a rich melting pot from all four corners. Step it up Marvel.

Jarvis has secretly been Latino for years. Why do you think he sponsored that South American kid who became Silverclaw?

[Conway]

While most books are definitely designed to appeal to white males (a target audience that easily makes up the majority of comic readers) it isn't pandering to white males. These titles aren't being marketed on neo-nazi sites claiming "white people will love this because the hero is white". Going on The View and announcing that "a major character is now female so females should try and read it" is pandering. Going on Colbert and suggesting that Cap will appeal to younger audiences because he's black now is pandering. These characters are not being marketed by the content of their stories they are being marketed by the color of their skin or their gender.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try these ideas, I'm saying that claiming "We're better now because Thor is a girl and Cap is an African American" is offensive and stupid and it will turn people away from these stories not attract them too it.

[whiterabbit]

Jarvis has secretly been Latino for years. Why do you think he sponsored that South American kid who became Silverclaw?

While on the subject of Latinos: Kyle Rayner is Latino, if not partially. I think about 97% of the comic book industry forgets that.

[Kieran_Frost]

While most books are definitely designed to appeal to white males (a target audience that easily makes up the majority of comic readers) it isn't pandering to white males. These titles aren't being marketed on neo-nazi sites claiming "white people will love this because the hero is white".

I'm a little concerned that you think "pandering to white males" means going a neo-nazi root...