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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    So far this month:
    Thor now uses the Ladies Room
    Captain America became Captain African American
    Nick Fury became a geriatric and his jobs will be filled by Shaft and PTSD patient
    Deadpool showed us that the offspring of a Canadian and a Latina is Rudy from the Cosby show
    The one established female African character gets her own solo title
    A teenaged girl of middle eastern decent hangs out with "that guy they marketed so hard they have to kill him off for a while now" and becomes a Moon PersonA rodent that you can't call a rodent became an insatiable womanizer
    And the rich guy in the Iron suit is set to become a bigger d-bag than Kanye West

    To be fair I'm not calling these bad ideas... I'm just wondering what's next? Is Silver Surfer going to give his surfboard to an Asian? At some point doesn't the pandering become so obvious that it loses the desired effect?

    Kamala isn't from the middle east.

    Her parents are from Pakistan.

  2. #17
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    I love some of them.

    For now, I'm just glad Storm finally has her own ongoing.


  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    The thing to remember in all this: when other stuff is getting announced all the time that stars white dudes, none of you feel like it's "pandering." Readers who aren't white dudes, though, they notice that. It's what happens in a community like this where one specific type of person is the "default."
    Except not all of us who are not white males (Asian-american here) are exactly thrilled with this. Angela? Really? We are pushing a third rate character from the freaking Spawn comics all of a sudden now? The Spawn comics, you know, the paragons of the infamous Dark Age? Also I'm not to thrilled with tony Stark or whom ever is in the Superior Iron Man armour go down the descent into crazy town. We just did this with Civil War.

    From where I sit I may just drop half of my Marvel titles and just move on over to DC. Atleast they don't do this stuff to shamelessly pander to my demographic.....oh wait where is my Asian-American character?
    Last edited by Joe Acro; 07-17-2014 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Language

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member Magnito's Avatar
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    Meh. People always resist change. Which is why change never lasts. Let them try it out and if it works, great and if not, the status quo will reset soon enough.

    Besides, diversity is a good thing. Maybe they are going about it the wrong way, but I give them points for trying. I mean, Falon-America and Lady Thor may not be the most original ideas but they'll get more buzz than two characters no one has ever heard of.

  5. #20
    BANNED Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I don't have anything against Ms. Marvel, I think she is kinda okay all things considered, but lady Thor and Sam as replacement Cap? Cheap tricks to generate positive PR.
    Every significant change they have ever made was a "cheap trick" to sell more books, ever since they fridged Uncle Ben. Good PR tends to make good sales, Good sales make good profits, and if you think anything matters to Marvel more than that I think you might be a bit naive

    I hace no trouble with temporary changes to the Wasp fratboy club that Marvel normally is.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    The thing to remember in all this: when other stuff is getting announced all the time that stars white dudes, none of you feel like it's "pandering." Readers who aren't white dudes, though, they notice that. It's what happens in a community like this where one specific type of person is the "default."
    Exactly. Marvel/DC do publicity stunts and gimmicks on a pretty regular basis. Even if it's an entertaining comic, you can't really believe that they're doing stuff like Death Of Wolverine because of its literally value or lasting impact. Yet somehow, when they advertise their stunts that involve women or minorities, "it's a PR move" that's gone too far or something...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnito View Post
    Meh. People always resist change. Which is why change never lasts. Let them try it out and if it works, great and if not, the status quo will reset soon enough.

    Besides, diversity is a good thing. Maybe they are going about it the wrong way, but I give them points for trying. I mean, Falon-America and Lady Thor may not be the most original ideas but they'll get more buzz than two characters no one has ever heard of.
    This comes at a cost of pushing a Falcon solo-work or actually pushing Thor's other female legacy characters, like Sif or Valkyrie. Furthermore, this is just diversity for divirsity's sake. I don't like being pandered too, especially when the pandering makes less sense than a typical Swerve on an episode of WCW's Monday Nitro during the late 1990's. Hell, the finger poke of doom makes more sense than the dreck that marvel is publishing.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Xalfrea's Avatar
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    Except that the new Ms. Marvel, by your definition a "cheap trick", is an example where good stories can be made WHILE making money.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xalfrea View Post
    Except that the new Ms. Marvel, by your definition a "cheap trick", is an example where good stories can be made WHILE making money.
    Isn't the the current Ms. Marvel title sitting at 61st in terms of comic book units sold last month? That's not the best argument to use to make your case.
    Last edited by empsolo; 07-17-2014 at 03:59 AM.

  10. #25
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just another user View Post
    Anyone online who is complaining that straight white men are losing out to minorities - no matter how you try to justify it, that it goes against canon, that it's a short term gimmick, that you don't really mind but you're just playing devils advocate - it's not a good look.
    QUOTED FOR TRUTH. Marvel actively adding more diversity is a good thing; and plenty of series still have straight, white men in the lead, it's not like they are dying species

    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    Isn;t the the current Ms. Marvel title sitting at 61st in terms of comic book units sold last month?
    And? That's still over 1 million each year profit on just one book. Which considering how much to costs to produce, is a massive net profit. I'd call that a perfect example of a good story which makes money.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 07-17-2014 at 04:01 AM.

  11. #26
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    Interesting how it was never an issue when the majority of the characters were white males.

    The world is about 10-15% white male and about 85-90% minority and the white global population will drop below 10% by 2060. That's not "PC" -- that's just reality.

    Why someone would see this reality being reflected in comic books as a "problem" is beyond me, but then again, it really doesn't matter what the naysayers think so long as Marvel understands the truth behind these numbers and makes their business decisions accordingly.

    Interesting how it wasn't "pandering" when all of the heroes were white males, but now that we have a wave of "diversity" trying to address the very overt racism of the past with many different cultures (and not just one single group such as "white males") suddenly terms like "PC" and "pandering" and "reverse racism" become all the rage.

    Apparently this wasn't an issue when it was white males who were being "pandered" to -- I'm sure that I don't have to spell out exactly why that is.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post

    And? That's still over 1 million each year profit on just one book. Which considering how much to costs to produce, is a massive net profit. I'd call that a perfect example of a good story which makes money.
    Except your blithely ignoring that the comic itself is sinking like a stone pretty fast in terms of the amounts of units sold since the first issue. Issue 1 debuted at what 24th place? At over 50,000 units? In March 41st, with what 38,000 units. And by June it's barely pulling in 30,000 units.

    It's barely running even with Fantastic Four and it looks like the Fantastic Four is on the verge of cancellation.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Interesting how it was never an issue when the majority of the characters were white males.

    The world is about 10-15% white male and about 85-90% minority and the white global population will drop below 10% by 2060. That's not "PC" -- that's just reality.

    Why someone would see this reality being reflected in comic books as a "problem" is beyond me, but then again, it really doesn't matter what the naysayers think so long as Marvel understands the truth behind these numbers and makes their business decisions accordingly.

    Interesting how it wasn't "pandering" when all of the heroes were white males, but now that we have a wave of "diversity" trying to address the very overt racism of the past with many different cultures (and not just one single group such as "white males") suddenly terms like "PC" and "pandering" and "reverse racism" become all the rage.

    Apparently this wasn't an issue when it was white males who were being "pandered" to -- I'm sure that I don't have to spell out exactly why that is.
    My point exactly.

    When people say it's pandering, they forget that a lot of minorities read comics too.

    I listen to the poptards podcast and the host (who is a comic retailer) noted that the new Ms Marvel has actually gotten a lot of female minorities into his store. The American population is darkening and like i've said earlier, other forms of entertainment have actually acknowledged this already.

    That is the reality and its not pandering.

  14. #29
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    These changes always bring out the worst part of fandom, the more ignorant and privileged part.
    Sometimes, those individuals are more a source of entertainment, as they wave their arms around, frothing about the mouth at the idea of 'PC pandering'.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    So you are saying that we minorities can't actually tell when we are being pandered too?
    Who is "we minorities"? Are you presuming to speak for a global population of over a few billion people?

    If you don't see the value of diversity -- for whatever reason -- in comics or anywhere else for that matter, that is your choice to make of course. But you shouldn't assume that your opinion is representative of the "minority" point of view just because you might be one of a few billion "minorities" on this planet.

    Personally, I don't see comics like Ms. Marvel, the (all female) X-Men, and Spiderman 2099 as being "pandered" to -- I just see them as good comics.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-17-2014 at 04:25 AM.

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