Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[Lady Warp Spasm]

I have no problems with character ethnicity and gender shifts IF they're done in service to the character they're replacing and this character as well. What is wrong to me is that Marvel is doing too much all at once and some of it feels like pandering (Cap, Thor.) This, instead of thinking of creative and organic ways to introduce these changes over time. Ms. Marvel proved you can take a concept and spin a new character from that concept and be popular. That is a creative and organic way to do this and I wish that was the status quo instead of the rarity.

Some of this feels like it's being forced down my throat, and any time that happens, I rail against. If Sif or Valkyrie were the new Thor I'd be a lot more excited about her. Still I am trying a couple of issues, because in rereading Aaron's Thor I cannot stay miffed at him for the mess that is Original Sin.

And I cannot stay miffed at Marvel. I rail and kick and whatever for awhile and then just put my brain back into my head and move forward. I am glad that folks are getting titles and characters they want, variety is the spice of life. I wish the changes to characters I enjoy were not so extreme, but I bet most of what I was annoyed with last year will probably be wiped clean post Battleworld.

[Tiamatty]

video game developers, movie casting companies . . . are going to "recreate" or "rebrand" long term established White Male characters with some sort of race/gender swap.

I'll grant you that comic books are actually making an effort towards inclusion. Video game publishers? No. So much no. Same with movie studios. They still treat Straight White Male as the default for protagonists, with women and minorities getting supporting roles. And even in comic books, Straight White Male is the default. They're just actually making an effort to be a little more inclusive.

[Tiamatty]

I have no problems with character ethnicity and gender shifts IF they're done in service to the character they're replacing and this character as well. What is wrong to me is that Marvel is doing too much all at once and some of it feels like pandering (Cap, Thor.) This, instead of thinking of creative and organic ways to introduce these changes over time. Ms. Marvel proved you can take a concept and spin a new character from that concept and be popular. That is a creative and organic way to do this and I wish that was the status quo instead of the rarity.

With both Cap and Thor, I think it was a matter of the writers having ideas for stories they thought would be interesting, and they just ended up doing them at the same time, so Marvel took the opportunity to grab some attention.

[mathew101281]

To me it depends on the character. Sam replacing cap makes sense. The new Miss Marvel makes sense, since Carol clearly isn't going back to that name. Female Thor, I'd have liked it better if Sif or Valkyrie had picked up the title. To me it all boils down to how its done. If done in a way that has some kind of internal logic, then I'm cool with it. But If it seems to much like a butt pull, then it kind of turns me off.

[Rogue Star]

To me it depends on the character. Sam replacing cap makes sense. The new Miss Marvel makes sense, since Carol clearly isn't going back to that name. Female Thor, I'd have liked it better if Sif or Valkyrie had picked up the title. To me it all boils down to how its done. If done in a way that has some kind of internal logic, then I'm cool with it. But If it seems to much like a butt pull, then it kind of turns me off.

I think the decision to use Roz Solomon (I'm pretty sure it's her!) is going to make sense in the end. For one, Aaron created her and he can basically do what he wants with her. She doesn't carry the baggage of years of continuity and fan expectations. And she might just be something that the other choices are not (whether that's personality-wise or something else, only Aaron knows). This is one of those things that we'll just have to be patient with, trusting that we'll appreciate it later and that's not easy in this era of NOW. I hope he can pull some genuine surprises with the new Thor - pleasant ones, of course - and this doesn't turn out to be a case of him throwing crap against a wall and seeing if anything sticks.

[SickAlice]

In note to my current signature...actually I tend to mix those up so I'll quote it lest your looking at an Addam's Family quote later or something:
" Don't confuse exploitation for representation. "

What I mean this is sometimes a people are represented, but often they are and their struggles are taken advantage and capitalized on under the guise of representation. Old know hat for politicians akin to baby kissing and hand shaking photo ops. In comics and media in general I don't think there's a " too much ". It's illogical. How can there be a considered limit to how many of a walk of life can exist in art? What there is however is content and bad representation as a result of it.

Often I'll see a cheer given because another female character is added to comics for example. Then after reading it I decided that Garth Ennis's The Pro isn't actually a decent (by which I mean indecent) representation of women. Easy pickings and satirical I know but just to make the point. If the female character has a ridiculous bust that's popping out of her costume and screams whenever a mouse runs by, or whatever nationality of a character acts stereotypical from in even a casually disparaging, or the character with the choice orientation is held misconceived ridicule,and so on then something is being done wrong and people shouldn't confuse the mere presence of the character as an ascension of the state of affairs nor try to measure it by playing the numbers game. " How many " does not matter as much as " how " and if the how is in not in the best interest of representation then it should fingered as the lame gimmick it is. When trying to mend a broken world by reaching for better mutual understanding I believe reading between the lines is an important component if a crucial one.

We all get the emails. Some institutions are out there trying to make the world a better place. Many are also trying to play on peoples sympathies and sense of morality to benefit themselves. That contrast exists in the whole of society. Hence it's important to try and ration whether the presenter is trying to help, and to inform, or are they trying to cash in on something. Important because the more that's given to the wrong parties the less gets to those who are truly in need.

[Heisennerd]

funny how there weren't complaints of "pandering", "exploitation" or "gimmicks" when 96% the characters were white dudes. You guys weren't concerned about "shoving white guys down our throats" but as soon as you see a non-white dude, it's time for pitchforks & suddenly comic companies only care about your money, like that wasn't the case before



oh, and this idea that any new non-white characters have to be "original" superheroes is stupid. No one has taken anything away from anyone because Miles Morales & Kamala Khan are Spider-Man & Ms. Marvel. Honestly if Bendis didn't create Miles Morales, I probably wouldn't have come back to superhero comics at all.

[Kieran_Frost]

It's this "inclusion culture" that the big thing in society today. A character is praised if it is anything but a white male. A white male today is considered to be the biggest social evil on the planet today. They are the racists, the sexists, the biggots, the oppressors, etc etc. So in order to placate to all the extremely loud "social justice" groups out there (Sorry to use the term, but there isn't anything else that fits) comic publishers, video game developers, movie casting companies, and just about any person/company involved in an entertainment medium are going to "recreate" or "rebrand" long term established White Male characters with some sort of race/gender swap. It's the new way of doing things, it stops bad press because the media loves it when these "social justice" groups start throwing their voices around Twitter, Facebook, etc. Mind you, you NEVER see any of these groups actually picket or have vocal and visual showings of protest out on the streets. (Except Feminist groups at Collages and events they don't like.)

Unfortunately, thanks to the mediums of social media, these once small and ignorable "rabble rousers" are quickly becoming the vocal majority; which means that in order to keep doing business to as many people as possible, entertainment companies are going to try and change things around to make them happy. Even if this means alienating long term fanbase; because today, it's not about the fans you already have who spend money on your product regardless, it's about attracting as much new fans and new money as possible.

When straight, white and male stops being the majority lead of comic films, of comic books... then MAYBE you'd have a point. But I look at Thor, Cap, Iron Man... add Hawkeye, Hulk, Punisher... still seems pretty damn straight, pretty damn white, pretty damn male. Marvel has constantly told us how New Avengers is THE flagship comic (a team dominated by straight, white, men). Who leads the mutant Revolution (a straight, white man). Who's the lead solo star (Spiderman... a straight, white, man). Most teams are without an LGBT character, there are lots of teams without any latino characters or disabled characters, there are some teams with no Asian characters; there are a few teams with no black characters. I can only think of one comic without any straight, white, male characters on the main cast (and that's X-men... which Beast is constantly guest starring in, so...). You're still the majority in the comic world, and you are in every comic, fret not.

[Lady Warp Spasm]

With both Cap and Thor, I think it was a matter of the writers having ideas for stories they thought would be interesting, and they just ended up doing them at the same time, so Marvel took the opportunity to grab some attention.

No disrespect here, but that seems way too coincidental for me. It all must tie into the whole Secret Wars business.

I can understand Lady Thor because of the Thor's Granddaughters characters that Araron set up in his future Thor scenario. Remender, not so much. That old Cap story has been done already and the timing of Sam becoming Cap feels like the stunt it sadly is.

[norm3]

Wasn't there already a female Thor. So no big deal Marvel. Does Falcon Capt. have any of Capt's Super Soldier Serum powers? Or is he still the same just new uni?

[Guest_1001]

When straight, white and male stops being the majority lead of comic films, of comic books... then MAYBE you'd have a point. But I look at Thor, Cap, Iron Man... add Hawkeye, Hulk, Punisher... still seems pretty damn straight, pretty damn white, pretty damn male. Marvel has constantly told us how New Avengers is THE flagship comic (a team dominated by straight, white, men). Who leads the mutant Revolution (a straight, white man). Who's the lead solo star (Spiderman... a straight, white, man). Most teams are without an LGBT character, there are lots of teams without any latino characters or disabled characters, there are some teams with no Asian characters; there are a few teams with no black characters. I can only think of one comic without any straight, white, male characters on the main cast (and that's X-men... which Beast is constantly guest starring in, so...). You're still the majority in the comic world, and you are in every comic, fret not.

This comes awfully close to sounding like you're saying "you can't be sexist against men" or "you can't be racist against whites". Neither is the case. Straight white men being present in comics isn't the issue. Personally, I'd like to see more minority characters but I'd also like them to be original characters. Rehashes of existing white male characters always comes off as insulting to me.

However, it's clear that characters now receive attention based on if they appeal to a demographic, regardless of whether or not they're a good character. Batwoman, Ms Marvel and Miles Morales, for example. Ms Marvel and Miles Morales received attention based on how they look and not what they do. If someone wrote the greatest comic book character of all time but made them a straight white male, there would be "social justice" groups (like themasething, I hate the term but it's the only thing that fits without making blanket statements about other groups) who would say "ugh, straight white guy. The patriarchy is at work again. Pass!"

[Jumpoff AKA JohnnyBlazed]

That old Cap story has been done already and the timing of Sam becoming Cap feels like the stunt it sadly is.

But cap has been replaced a bunch of times before, why is now a stunt. Was it a stunt when is was John Walker or the 40's cap or Bucky? I see both sides of the argument honestly
It's extremely hard for new heroes to pop, even harder for people of color, but on the flip side I'm a ghost rider fan and I don't see blaze or ketch as white I just see them as my favorite characters so I'm against any new hosts ever so I hate Robbie and Alejandra just because I will spend money on ONE solo hero and that's ghost rider and I feel like there a hell of a lot more stories to tell with ketch and blaze.

[SickAlice]

funny how there weren't complaints of "pandering", "exploitation" or "gimmicks" when 96% the characters were white dudes. You guys weren't concerned about "shoving white guys down our throats" but as soon as you see a non-white dude, it's time for pitchforks & suddenly comic companies only care about your money, like that wasn't the case before

As it's addressed at at my comment clearly and your presenting the argument that I did not have a point (I'm failing to see how your base reasoning deflates as well here?), simply put who said it wasn't? It always has an been issue, hence why I made a point of contrasting charity organizations. I was clearly iterating a point and what your seeing is the continuation of an artifice that has been long present. And who said " only "? I seem to recall (staring at the post above yours) noting the other end of the spectrum?

Noting that your one of the persons who feel issues are " shoved your throat ", do you know why people of different walks of life constantly raise their voice on on their personal issues? Because to date nothing has been done for them and largely due to people the people who " don't want to hear it " plugging their ears and turning face. It's called raising awareness and were caring universal we wouldn't have incidents were say a person is stabbed to death in the street while other citizens meander on by obviously not lifting a finger to help, much less the person filming it with their phone who could just as easily used the phone to call the authorities.

Yet people wonder why the world got the way it did when the answer is simple: Because of people. Because of neglect and poor management and bad use of resources. Because no one cared, turned the other way as it fell apart. Aren't we supposed to learn something about being a " hero " from comics? Meaning taking a stand for those who cannot stand for themselves, or whom are in the minority so they have no chance of broadcasting over the majority?

While it's perfectly in ones right to not care about other people it's ridiculous to claim that other persons whom deal daily with tribulations not your own have no right to speak up against their own. Naturally it's easy for a person to cope with problems that that aren't their own. What kind of condolence is pointing that out though? Sorry but white people that say everyone needs to be silenced, well your good at insertion so figure it out.

[ed2962]

This comes awfully close to sounding like you're saying "you can't be sexist against men" or "you can't be racist against whites". Neither is the case. Straight white men being present in comics isn't the issue. Personally, I'd like to see more minority characters but I'd also like them to be original characters. Rehashes of existing white male characters always comes off as insulting to me.

However, it's clear that characters now receive attention based on if they appeal to a demographic, regardless of whether or not they're a good character. Batwoman, Ms Marvel and Miles Morales, for example. Ms Marvel and Miles Morales received attention based on how they look and not what they do. If someone wrote the greatest comic book character of all time but made them a straight white male, there would be "social justice" groups (like themasething, I hate the term but it's the only thing that fits without making blanket statements about other groups) who would say "ugh, straight white guy. The patriarchy is at work again. Pass!"

I don't think anyone's saying that you can't be sexist against men or that you can't be racist against white people, but that the addition of minority characters or women in authority doesn't equal an attack on straight white men.

[ed2962]

ouch! double post!