Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[Holt]

Incidentally, that same argument is often (see: always) used whenever there's controversy over a character who was white being played by a minority actor. Go to any thread about Michael B. Jordan as the Human Torch or Jason Momoa as Aquaman or now Mehcad Brooks as Jimmy Olsen and you'll see at least one comment about "If they cast a white man as Black Panther, people would be furious!"

And yeah, they would, because there's already a general lack of diversity in superhero movies and TV shows. The heroes in movies and TV shows are overwhelmingly white. Making a white character into a minority increases the sorely lacking diversity, while making a minority character white actively decreases it and makes the situation worse.

[Tiamatty]

This'll be construed as "too simplistic" but **** it...

When a "white person" take a part of a "minority culture" it's called "co-oping" and seen as wrong.
When a "minority culture" takes a part of "white culture" and uses it, it's called "progressive" and seen as positive.

Do people not see the irony and imbalance here?

White people have all the power. That's the vastly greater imbalance.

There's also the issue of what actually constitutes "white culture." There is no real "white culture." There's a variety of white cultures. There's Scottish culture, German culture, French culture, English culture, Irish culture, Spanish culture, Italian culture, Russian culture, Swedish culture . . . And other white people are probably more likely to appropriate other cultures than people of colour are. St. Patrick's Day has been appropriated by people who aren't Irish as an excuse to get drunk. The "Fightin' Irish" mascots of some sports teams are likewise an appropriation of Irish culture. Hell, this appropriation even happens with people who kinda belong to the culture - for example, someone who's a quarter Scottish throwing on a kilt without actually bothering to understand anything about the historical significance of the kilt.

So cultural appropriation is basically a part of society. The difference between someone getting drunk on St. Patrick's Day, and someone speaking in Ebonics, is that Irish people face far, far fewer obstacles to success in society than black people.

It's a false equivalence that tries to ignore basic social inequalities in order to minimize the struggles of people belonging to minority groups.

[Rogue Star]

I feel like givin' summa y'all a hug! I get so frustrated trying to explain the effects that a lack of "minority" representation has on a person's subconscious mind. It's like talking to bat trying to get it to see things my way. Most of the (apparently) white people who suddenly feel oppressed have no idea what it's like to truly be oppressed. It gets you before you're even born. It's already in your grandparents and in your parents. They don't see that there's something wrong with the way the world treats them, or they do but they don't bother teaching you to see it and push against it. And so you go through the world, oppressed and excluded, and happy when you finally get to see someone of your color get to be a sidekick on the big screen! yay!

[Tiamatty]

I feel like givin' summa y'all a hug! I get so frustrated trying to explain the effects that a lack of "minority" representation has on a person's subconscious mind. It's like talking to bat trying to get it to see things my way. Most of the (apparently) white people who suddenly feel oppressed have no idea what it's like to truly be oppressed. It gets you before you're even born. It's already in your grandparents and in your parents. They don't see that there's something wrong with the way the world treats them, or they do but they don't bother teaching you to see it and push against it. And so you go through the world, oppressed and excluded, and happy when you finally get to see someone of your color get to be a sidekick on the big screen! yay!

As I said earlier in the thread, even as a straight white male, I get excited when I see characters who have qualities or interests similar to mine, like characters with a background in library studies, or a character who likes My Little Pony. Even with all the representation I already get, I still feel happy when I get more specific representation. So I can only imagine how much better it would feel for people who are underrepresented.

[Heisennerd]

I need a hug.

Science Fiction & Fantasy shouldn't only be a safe place for white guys.

It's still overwhelmingly white & some of these guys feel persecuted that it might in fact be more refreshing to explore other people are protagonists, for a change.

Can't we all the hero sometimes?

[Kusanagi]

I need a hug.

Science Fiction & Fantasy shouldn't only be a safe place for white guys.

It's still overwhelmingly white & some of these guys feel persecuted that it might in fact be more refreshing to explore other people are protagonists, for a change.

Can't we all the hero sometimes?

I'm right there with you, I can understand anger with people's favorite characters being replaced, but hate for things like Ms. Marvel and Mighty Avengers (established Avengers in an Avengers book who happen not to be white?! HOW DARE THEY!) just make me shake my head. The idea that nerd culture is solely a white thing just makes me sad and bit angry.

[PinnyPed]

If we are talking American comics (such as Marvel and DC), don't you think they should they represent American demographics? According to the 2013 US Census, 13% of the country is African American, 17% is Latino and 63% is white without counting Latinos though the Census also reports "white Hispanics" as white, bringing the total to 77% white. Also, 3% are LGBT. That does not reflect the numbers from these groups that actually read comics but I cannot imagine that any demographic group I've mentioned has a larger reading comics representation than their national percentage. Given that its probably fair to represent characters in response to the demographics of the nation, Marvel is probably doing a fair job. They are obviously light on female heroes, since females are 50% of the population. This has always been explained by the "women don't read comics" argument and statistics of the women reading comic population vary from 10-40% of the comic reading public. However, the number is smaller when considering the number of women who read superhero comics, so obviously this is a market to be tapped.

But as a woman who has read comics most of her life, I'd have to say there is more to drawing in the female reader than just presenting female superheroes. The ironic thing about replacing Thor is that Thor of all the straight white male silver age superheroes was probably the most female accessible, since the book basically dealt with fantasy and romance themes more than any other Marvel book at the time. After all Sif was always a badass, even while Sue Storm and Jean Grey spent most of their time fainting.

[rdman]

Personally I would like Marvel to put in mutant male super heroes of all colors who can fly, blast energy from hands or eyes or both and are team players on the X-Men or Avengers or both like Wolverine. I.E. Genesis(kid Apocalypse), Sunfire, Mimic, and Sunspot, Kid Gladiator, & Quentin Quire.

Marvel tends to pander to fanboys lusting for hot super powered women or girls in edible costumes. Whatever happen to creating heroes that even young boys can vicariously look up to or see themselves. Can a young fan boy truly see themselves as some babe with powers?

Perhaps that makes me a mutant fanboy.

[Username taken]

are comic books supposed to be "white culture"?

sheesh, it's pretty clear some of you don't want any non-whites around in this culture you claim to have ownership of

This basically

[Andy]

This thread is as old as cheese and I'm unsure why it's even still going, but the OP is absolutely right.

People who feel like they're "finally represented" when a company axe grinds a character into a certain role need to step back and be more realistic about what is actually happening. It's pandering in its rawest form and I don't see how anybody can fall for it.


Kamala Khan is a good example of progression.
Taking Marvel's Big 3 and turning them into a douchey rich white guy, a black guy, and a lady and then plastering the logo of 3 of them all over, while simultaneously announcing how "forward-thinking! Huzzah!" You are over every news site and television show isn't progression. It's pandering.

[Andy]

I personally find the whole "I can only connect with a character that looks like me" thing very problematic. This is part of the problem: this constant, chauvinistic identification with your little group. And I say this as a minority and an immigrant. Growing up in Brazil reading Marvel Comics the fact that I knew all the heroes were American never stopped me from fully enjoying the comics and identifying myself with many characters.

While I would love to see more female and minority characters I'm tired of this tokenism and making minority heroes "knock offs" of more popular history (a black Spider Man, a black Captain America, a black female Captain Marvel, a female Thor, etc). How about we stop this laziness and I don't know...CREATE NEW CHARACTERS of color? And then introduce and develop these characters in an organic and natural way rather than this whole corporate media blitz that they are doing.

All they are doing is ensuring these minority derivations will be quickly forgotten.

As much as I personally hate the Spawn comics, McFarlane really needs to be followed as an example here: he introduced a black hero who was not a stereotype and not a knock off of another, more popular white superhero. And it worked.

This is probably one of the better posts in this thread.

[Username taken]

This thread is as old as cheese and I'm unsure why it's even still going, but the OP is absolutely right.

People who feel like they're "finally represented" when a company axe grinds a character into a certain role need to step back and be more realistic about what is actually happening. It's pandering in its rawest form and I don't see how anybody can fall for it.


Kamala Khan is a good example of progression.
Taking Marvel's Big 3 and turning them into a douchey rich white guy, a black guy, and a lady and then plastering the logo of 3 of them all over, while simultaneously announcing how "forward-thinking! Huzzah!" You are over every news site and television show isn't progression. It's pandering.

Pandering to who?

[Emma's Midriff]

This thread is as old as cheese and I'm unsure why it's even still going, but the OP is absolutely right.

People who feel like they're "finally represented" when a company axe grinds a character into a certain role need to step back and be more realistic about what is actually happening. It's pandering in its rawest form and I don't see how anybody can fall for it.


Kamala Khan is a good example of progression.
Taking Marvel's Big 3 and turning them into a douchey rich white guy, a black guy, and a lady and then plastering the logo of 3 of them all over, while simultaneously announcing how "forward-thinking! Huzzah!" You are over every news site and television show isn't progression. It's pandering.

Tony Stark has always been a douchey rich white guy.

[JudicatorPrime]

Frankly, I'm just glad that Marvel has at least acknowledged that there is a problem. I fully expect them to stumble in finding a solution, however. Installing Sam Wilson as Captain America is one such misstep. I think a female Thor (Thora?) is another misstep. I don't imagine that any of these "changes" will be permanent or have lasting effects in the Marvel continuum.

[Emma's Midriff]

It's not Thorra. It's Thor.