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  1. #76
    Mighty Member Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhazard View Post
    It wouldn't have made sense in universe for daredevil or iron fist to take the mantle. They sort of tried something like that with black panther, it wasn't well recieved.

    Attachment 6189

    Just a FYI, they never did that with Black Panther. The picture posted was a *villain* and not T'challa. Fans didn't like the idea, only because T'challa is a Royal, former King and the crown prince of his own nation. There is no reason he should were the American flag.

    This is different. Falcon is and has always been a big part of Cap. Not only that, but he is American.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    Because Aaron's quote pretty much says "it's a new character but somebody who has ties with Thor". And I don't give a shit if she is worthy or not. What you are doing is casting aside female characters who are just as good as Thor further into the background.
    I hear you, but -- you do realize that, by definition, you're being close-minded, right? "If it isn't one of these two characters, I hate everything about it."

    Miles Morales was a completely new character with no previous ties to Peter Parker, but via a great story it was completely natural that he became the new Spider-Man. There isn't any reason why the same thing can't happen with this new character.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid A View Post
    Uh, I don't think anyone who is upset with these changes is racist though. They're just upset their favorite characters are being replaced, and they know it's because of a drive for diversity. Doesn't mean they're against the underlying drive for diversity, just the result of it, ie. losing a favorite character.
    The character will come back, though. They always do.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    Because Aaron's quote pretty much says "it's a new character but somebody who has ties with Thor". And I don't give a shit if she is worthy or not. What you are doing is casting aside female characters who are just as good as Thor further into the background.
    This is the only thing I really take issue with as far as Thor goes. I mean Sif is awesome. Why not continue to push her? Val is pretty much already a female Thor, without the hammer. Why not push her. I mean they did with the Fearless stuff and then it just faded out and they quit?

    who knows though, Aaron has done well with Thor--so he deserves some good will there. I think this WILL help the actual Thor (without his hammer and mystical powers) and also help Steve (who now will get to show his tactical side stright up). We all know they will return the the status quo.
    SO LET THIS BE A LESSON. LEARN. YOUR. PLACE. - Prince Freeman

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphan View Post

    This is different. Falcon is and has always been a big part of Cap. Not only that, but he is American.
    The problem with the Falcon is that Cap faces villians who are on his power level or higher. He is a street level hero when ever we see him by himself.

    A better move would be Luke Cage. You would do an entire story arc dealing with Luke Cage taking up the mantle Captain America and dealing with the legacy of the Weapon Plus programs since Luke Cage is legacy of the Super Soldier Serum project.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    All of this comes a couple months after I started seeing more complaints about a "lack of Diversity". It's pandering. To call someone racist/sexist for drawing attention that a company is making a point of showing how "diverse" they are after being called out for not being diverse they are being disingenuous, is being overly sensitive. I wasn't calling for these things to stop or be changed, or that I didn't like them, I simply called them pandering, and that it reeked of trying too hard.
    Referring to all of these recent developments as "pandering" is an incredibly pessimistic view of the situation, and that's probably what has others upset with what you are saying. Why does it have to be pandering? Why could it not have been Marvel directly addressing the atmosphere that currently envelops North American society (like they have always done in the past)?

  7. #82
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Being Cap isn't about strength, which is why Steve's personal strength bounced somewhere between Matt Murdock and Hank McCoy. At the end of the day, Sam understands the role best.

    Thor Woman is silly as hell, though.

  8. #83
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    Storm earned her book. She is established and recognizable. If I was interested in the character I would buy it. I thought it was a good idea that was a long time overdue... until the rest of the announcements this month.
    I hope I'm reading this wrong, but this sounds like you've changed your mind about the Storm book because of stuff that has nothing to do with the Storm book.

    The Thor announcement was mad on that classic forum for releasing comic book news... The View. You can't tell me that isn't pandering to females.
    Or trying to open the door for a new audience.

    Incidentally, funny thing about that word, "pandering": Its original meaning was of someone acting as a go-between between a prostitute and a john. So maybe not the best word to be using in this context.

    To the person that was kind enough to enlighten me about Kamala Kahn's ancestry I thank you, but you'd be hard pressed to find many Americans that could tell you the difference between Persian and Middle Eastern.
    One's a subset of the other. And I'm not sure what the appeal to ignorance is supposed to prove.

    I think that linking her to Wolverine is an attempt to make sales (what else should a company do),
    Marvel's been doing this for about twenty years or so, so I don't know why you're complaining about it now.

    and the Inhuman angle makes her even more of a minority push.
    Ah, yes, that lucrative Inhuman market.

    Nobody can defend making the offspring of Wade Wilson and a Latino into an adorable black girl.
    I've been reading her as dark-skinned Latina, myself. And what's the problem with "adorable"? You want her to be ugly?

    All of this comes a couple months after I started seeing more complaints about a "lack of Diversity".
    Those complaints have been around a lot longer than a couple months.

    a company is making a point of showing how "diverse" they are after being called out for not being diverse they are being disingenuous,
    How do you know they're being disingenuous? Is there a video going around that I'm not aware of showing Quesada stepping off-camera on the Colbert set and saying "That oughta hold the little SOBs"?

    And ultimately, what skin is it off your ass if Marvel makes some books that appeal to people other than straight white dudes?
    "It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose." - Peter David, on life

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  9. #84
    Looking for The Massive afrocarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    The problem with the Falcon is that Cap faces villians who are on his power level or higher. He is a street level hero when ever we see him by himself.

    A better move would be Luke Cage. You would do an entire story arc dealing with Luke Cage taking up the mantle Captain America and dealing with the legacy of the Weapon Plus programs since Luke Cage is legacy of the Super Soldier Serum project.
    You're making your decision based on power sets as opposed to what makes sense story-wise. Falcon has fought by Cap's side for decades.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by afrocarter View Post
    You're making your decision based on power sets as opposed to what makes sense story-wise. Falcon has fought by Cap's side for decades.
    I understand that and that's fine. It's same reason why I'm not a fan of when Dick Grayson made the transition to being Batman.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P View Post
    And ultimately, what skin is it off your ass if Marvel makes some books that appeal to people other than straight white dudes?
    Straight white dudes is the new Black, apparently.

  12. #87
    Mighty Member Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    The problem with the Falcon is that Cap faces villians who are on his power level or higher. He is a street level hero when ever we see him by himself.

    A better move would be Luke Cage. You would do an entire story arc dealing with Luke Cage taking up the mantle Captain America and dealing with the legacy of the Weapon Plus programs since Luke Cage is legacy of the Super Soldier Serum project.
    Sam has access to technology that should make this fine. I agree I would have probably used Luke or even Blue Marvel (just to see a meta playing Cap, and he is a marine). But Sam should be fine.

    We have already see that Sam has a suit where he fought in a intergalactic space war. So the Street-level excuse doesn't work.

    See the dude in Red, with wings--that's Sam. Hardly "street" and while he does operate at the street-level most of the time, there are no limits but the ones placed on him by fans and writers. Here he as a high tech suit that allows him to fight in a intergalactic war. So nothing should stop him from taking on Cap's foes or anyone else--unless the writer limits him to doing so.
    Last edited by Victor Freeman; 07-17-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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  13. #88
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    The problem with the Falcon is that Cap faces villians who are on his power level or higher. He is a street level hero when ever we see him by himself.
    *Cap* is a street-level hero.

    Look, we get it, you like Luke better and would rather he get the push of filling Steve's shoes. But Remender isn't under any obligation to stroke your character fetishes.
    "It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose." - Peter David, on life

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  14. #89
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    Miles Morales was a completely new character that was able to comfortably step in to the Spider-Man role because of a well-written story (Ultimate or otherwise, it doesn't matter). The same can occur with the new Thor character. None of your points give me reason to think otherwise.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by empsolo View Post
    Sam makes no sense because at best he is a street level hero. He really doesn't have the power set for the type of shit Steve does. If you really really wanted to put a minority character in the Captain America spot, you should do it with Luke Cage. Luke Cage makes sense being cap because he is part of the legacy of the Erskine Super Soldier Program and the weapon Plus program.
    Here you are proving exactly what I mentioned before. Sam has been doing what "Steve does" since he first debt. The man has no special physical abilities but he still has managed to be the equal of a super solider. So like I said before people who would never give Sam a chance because of surface levels stuff may actually tune in now and later down the road now that he is taking up the shield for a short stint.

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