Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[cranger]

Again, this isn't about pandering to minorities; don't insult Marvel -- and worse, yourself -- like that. Captain America is such a poignant symbol; having Sam Wilson take up the mantle is Marvel making a statement about what America is/should be IMO

I would not call it pandering but it is not a statement either. It is marketing. It is business. If this comic was only selling 5K and Marvel got hate mail every month but kept publishing anyway for however long it takes, that would be a statement. What will happen is Marvel will ride out whatever sales bump this brings the title, whether that increases readership from whatever demographic they are trying to reach, and then drop the idea as soon as they come up with a new sales ploy.

[afrocarter]

I would not call it pandering but it is not a statement either. It is marketing. It is business. If this comic was only selling 5K and Marvel got hate mail every month but kept publishing anyway for however long it takes, that would be a statement. What will happen is Marvel will ride out whatever sales bump this brings the title, whether that increases readership from whatever demographic they are trying to reach, and then drop the idea as soon as they come up with a new sales ploy.

So bringing Cap back in 1964 was just business, as well, and had nothing at all to do with Kennedy's assassination the year before? Today's example is certainly not on the same scale, but I believe that sociopolitical climate plays a role in what happens to the most iconic characters.

[Victor Freeman]

Oh, didn't know that, whoops.

No biggie, because you were right about the outrage. It was hilarious because fans overreacted to that very picture. Now had that same picture had been Kasper Cole, fans would have reacted in a positive way. David Liss had a shadowed out character pick up the suit at the end of the arc that was suppose to be Kasper.

I think the Falcon-Cap has real potential. But also in the same way that Panther wa shown in his Man of Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive stint--Steve will get to show that he is more than just a guy that lucked out on the SSS, if Reminder does it right. David Liss made a point that T'challa was still High-Peak Human without the Heart Shaped Herb (that makes him enhanced/superhuman) and that he didn't need Wakandan Tech or Vibranium to be a bad ass who could wreck you. I think there is the same potential for both Thor Odinson and Steve Rogers sans their perks.

Bru kinda showed in it the Super Soldier mini, with Steve. But here we will get to see Steve tactics take front and center.

[Pinsir]

I like how Marvel tries to make their comics as progressive as possible when their movies are the most regressive films of the decade in terms of how they treat minorities and women.

[Double 0]

At this point, all that's left is more minority creators as well as more of an LGBT presence character wise. And you know, even more POCs.

[aja_christopher]

I like different interpretations of characters. It's good to shake up the status quo once in a while.
Until Marvel and DC start allowing creators to own the characters they create, this is the best that can be done.

I think you nailed it right there -- which is also why I write (and sometimes illustrate) my own comics.

Marvel is a big company and they've been experiencing a lot of success under Disney. But I'm sure they also remember that they were about to go bankrupt not all that long ago (when they sold off a lot of film rights that I'm sure they now regret) and they are looking to Disney -- which has made diversity a key word in their business protocol -- for guidance on how to take that next step into international success as a brand.

I'm actually a little surprised that Marvel has been this proactive over the past year or so -- I thought they would drag their feet on this but they are moving a lot faster than I expected, especially with regards to female-focused books, which to me was always a no-brainer given the success of properties like Gravity, The Hunger Games and Frozen.

Better late than never.

I like how Marvel tries to make their comics as progressive as possible when their movies are the most regressive films of the decade in terms of how they treat minorities and women.

It's always been that way -- The New Mutants and the X-Men were more progressive in the 70s and the 80s than most movies and television shows are today.

Marvel is just following a pattern of success; I'm sure they will eventually expand into Black Widow, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Blade, etc, so long as the comic book movie market continues to shows support for different franchises (Guardians, Dr. Strange, etc).

[MouserGrey]

Although it's a nice sentiment, it's not going to change much. Sooner or later, Falcon will become Falcon again and Steve Rogers will be Captain America, and Thor will be Thor. What Marvel's doing makes headlines and guarantees a few more sales, but they're not changing the status quo for long, so they're not changing anything at all. It's good that they're trying to make a difference, even if it's a small one. However, if they really want to be friendly to all minorities, they won't "replace" well-known characters with other well-known characters, they'd bring the the minorities forward and push them as the new holy trinity.

Falcon could have easily replaced Captain America and remained Falcon, but Marvel would have had to make a huge push in marketing to guarantee the popularity the book would get as if he was Captain America, so in the end, a lot of this feels like a marketing ploy.

I agree. But maybe it does bring in new readers. And also, Marvel just put the spotlight on themselves. If the media keeps it on them it may actually bring about Marvel pushing their long established minority characters for good. Maybe, maybe, hopefully. Sometimes it's worth taking a chance on panderers.

[Kusanagi]

Forcing minority sales by making them hang out with the stereo-typical macho man, and making them part of an even smaller minority is annoying.

I was really trying to avoiding jumping into this topic but this statement just made my head hurt.

1: It would be far, far, easier to list the number of books Marvel put out in the last 20 years that Wolverine hasn't appeared in to boost sales rather than go through the hundreds of titles where he did. Singling out Ms. Marvel for this is insane.

2: You do know inhumans, like mutants, are fictional right? They're the source of her powers not a real class of people.

The problem is that she is an example of forcing minority status into a title that already has a strong black female character.

I don't even know where to start here...ok...

1: She was already a minority character, also I wasn't aware there was a cap to how many minority characters you were allowed especially when most of your stories occur in and around New York.

2: The guest artist take on characters has been off. So it seems more likely artistic interpretation than Marvel attempting to "pander".

3: Carmelita and her mother weren't exactly light skinned, so dark skin latina works, though yeah probably still the guest artist.

4: And this is the big one. Who would this be pandering to anyway? Marvel desperate to ditch the Latino market, to grab up more black people? Was there even an annoucement on this? Wouldn't you have already needed to be reading Deadpool to even know about this? Do you realize how stupid all of this sounds?

[Kid A]

The character will come back, though. They always do.

Obviously yeah. I'm just saying it's a bit presumptuous and self-righteous to jump on the racist card every time someone expresses being upset about the changes.

It's always been that way -- The New Mutants and the X-Men were more progressive in the 70s and the 80s than most movies and television shows are today.

Marvel in general was more progressive back then - Miller's Daredevil, Dr. Strange, Kirby's everything but especially F4, Simonson's Thor, etc. They were basically the old version of Vertigo. That's why I hate how the movies are all McDonald's in comparison.

[Wind Rider]

Anyone online who is complaining that straight white men are losing out to minorities - no matter how you try to justify it, that it goes against canon, that it's a short term gimmick, that you don't really mind but you're just playing devils advocate - it's not a good look.

Quoted for truth.

I don't know if it's the way the OP was worded but this type of thread just comes off offensive.

[Kieran_Frost]

At this point, all that's left is more minority creators as well as more of an LGBT presence character wise.

There is definitely a lacking of Asian and latino characters. If you think how many Asian and latino people are in the US, Marvel has so few on comics as main cast members. I'd like to see more, and have faith we will in time.

[Pinsir]

It's always been that way -- The New Mutants and the X-Men were more progressive in the 70s and the 80s than most movies and television shows are today.

Marvel is just following a pattern of success; I'm sure they will eventually expand into Black Widow, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Blade, etc, so long as the comic book movie market continues to shows support for different franchises (Guardians, Dr. Strange, etc).

The problem is that Marvel has made it clear that they have no interest in a Black Panther movie and that they would rather have the Maximoff twins, Vision and Dr. Strange.

This in the light of DC's casting choices of a Jewish, olive skinned Goddess as WW, Cyborg, and a dark skinned Aquaman, and whatever the Rock is going to be.

Marvel got a lot of media hype for Miles (which was well received), Ms. Marvel (which is the first MArvel book I've read since Simonson's Thor) and a bunch of other works like the Young Avengers, but they are trying a bit too hard now.

[Rochedalaix]

There is definitely a lacking of Asian and latino characters. If you think how many Asian and latino people are in the US, Marvel has so few on comics as main cast members. I'd like to see more, and have faith we will in time.

Well they have a lot of Japanese characters, but that's it. Also since Sam is the new Captain America is he going to change his wings to Bald Eagle wings?

[aja_christopher]

Marvel in general was more progressive back then - Miller's Daredevil, Dr. Strange, Kirby's everything but especially F4, Simonson's Thor, etc. They were basically the old version of Vertigo. That's why I hate how the movies are all McDonald's in comparison.

I think you just hit on why I jumped ship to Vertigo for a while -- Seinkiewicz's run on the New Mutants felt like something that was more 'adult' than most of the comics that I'd read before. Vertigo definitely played into that market with their British writers, experimental artists and graphic novel formats.

As a kid I could never get into guys like Captain America, Iron Man or Thor but characters like Nightcrawler and Dani Moonstar made me see that it wasn't about the format -- it was about the writing and character development. A lot of people tend to forget that one of Marvel's most successful franchises (The X-Men) built it's largest base around a "diverse" cast of characters and many would argue that it's best stories come from it's most "diverse" era (Claremont's run).

If anything, it's good that the rest of Marvel is learning from said example and acting accordingly.

I think the movies will eventually catch up -- if Marvel can manage to make their movie output as diverse as their comic output then there's a better chance that the audience won't suffer "comic book movie burnout" from seeing the same kinds of movie heroes over and over again.

There's enough trilogies to go around -- Blade had his chance to shine and now it's Cap, Thor, Tony, and Dr. Strange. Maybe next will be Carol Danvers, T'Challa, Natasha Romanova, Miles Morales or Kamala Khan.

Maybe a franchise that includes all of the above (Secret Wars Trilogy) -- the future is wide open.

[Kieran_Frost]

Well they have a lot of Japanese characters, but that's it.

Thinking about it there are more Asian characters in comics than I thought (Jubilee, Psylocke, Sunspot, Daken, Nico, Shogo). And MAC and All New Ghost Rider is a very positive step increasing latino rep (and Miles is latino as well, though many forget this). Still, numbers wise it's low, and I hope to see more. I'd love to have a strong Asian character lead the Avengers, or have Jimmy Woo join the Illuminati.

Also since Sam is the new Captain America is he going to change his wings to Bald Eagle wings?

I LOVE this idea!!!