Is Marvel's "Minority"/PC Month trying too hard?

[Mary Jay]

I honestly understand the diversity thing, and am all for it. I'm interested in characters and what they can bring, not the color of their skin. I so don't focus on it that when I read the old comics and came across Bill Foster (Goliath) I was genuinely wondering why the heck they called him 'Black' Goliath since his costume was blue, before remembering that his skin was black (and then I thought it was kind of a crappy name to give him...).

I really just want to read a good story, and that's it. But I'm really wondering if Sam Wilson, as the new Captain America, will be put in a leading position in the Avengers. I mean, does it come with the title? And if so, what are his qualifications for leading a team? There are other heroes far more experienced for that role, are there not? (Hawkeye or Black Widow come to mind, especially since they've been leaders before).

As for the new female taking on the hammer of Thor... I'm a girl, and I couldn't care less. This won't make me pick up the title. I find it strange to expect people to pick up a title for that reason alone. I like Thor Odinson, so I'll probably be following him in whatever title he'll appear. Same for Steve Rogers. If they do...

[Ceebiro]

I like how Marvel tries to make their comics as progressive as possible when their movies are the most regressive films of the decade in terms of how they treat minorities and women.

Are you sure regressive is the word you want to use?

It would be correct to say they were underrepresented, but there's very little way you can say they were treated poorly.

The minorities that were actually present have more or less all been treated well, unless they were villains.

[Likewater]

Thinking about it there are more Asian characters in comics than I thought (Jubilee, Psylocke, Sunspot, Daken, Nico, Shogo). And MAC and All New Ghost Rider is a very positive step increasing latino rep (and Miles is latino as well, though many forget this). Still, numbers wise it's low, and I hope to see more. I'd love to have a strong Asian character lead the Avengers, or have Jimmy Woo join the Illuminati.


I LOVE this idea!!!

You forgot Turbo, and Hazmat. And most of those characters are associated with the X-men. Most of the Marvel main(?) avengers-esque junior teams never really make the Avengers. Even Justice and Firestar didn't get beyond the final run in the late 90's 00' to 01. Before the current era.

The X-books especially under Quesada's stewardship had a purge and that purge fell on a lot of minority characters, Jubilee, Sunfire, Synch, SKin, Dani Moonstar, Rictor, Jessie Bedlam, Prodigy, when the death and or depowerment hammer fell if fell on them.

It was especially egregious for Generation X. Skin and Synch were killed, Jubilee and Chamber were Depowerd (And nearly killed), Husk was turned into arm candy then limbo'ed. M found solace in Peter David's X-factor. Pretty nasty treatment for a small team.

And Bishop what happened to Bishop and Forge, having there hero status torpedoed the way it did...

its nice to see marvel attempt to turn that boat around.

[Ceebiro]

What Marvel is doing is comical.

I'm Dominican, I've been reading comics for 22 years. I don't like a character because he/she is the same color as me or has a name similar to mine. Do they think I'm that simple? I actually find that insulting, personally.

If they want to really appeal to minorities this is what you do. Create an original character with his/her own history and identity and make them just as powerful and interesting as your established characters. Give the character its own book and hire good artists and writers and to make a visually appealing book with good, interesting stories. Then grab that character and have him/her appear in your movie.

Do that, instead of dressing up a minority and giving them the identity of another character.

That stuff doesn't work.

Marvel has tried to create new characters with lasting power in and out of established identities. They've tried promoting characters that have been around for decades. They failed too.

You assume too much about the desire of readers to flock to any well-written new minority character. It just doesn't happen. There's a lot of lip service on both sides that rarely bears out as far as the success of new characters, minority or not.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Very succint and well said.

It's times like these that unfortunately we see the more negative part of fandom.

Why are you surprised?
Fandom's most base nature is to whine and complain...about everything.
Instead of celebrating the effort Marvel is making we get: Damned if they don't...Damned straight to the lowest pits of Tartarus when they do.

smfh

[Ceebiro]

You forgot Turbo, and Hazmat. And most of those characters are associated with the X-men. Most of the Marvel main(?) avengers-esque junior teams never really make the Avengers. Even Justice and Firestar didn't get beyond the final run in the late 90's 00' to 01. Before the current era.

The X-books especially under Quesada's stewardship had a purge and that purge fell on a lot of minority characters, Jubilee, Sunfire, Synch, SKin, Dani Moonstar, Rictor, Jessie Bedlam, Prodigy, when the death and or depowerment hammer fell if fell on them.

It was especially egregious for Generation X. Skin and Synch were killed, Jubilee and Chamber were Depowerd (And nearly killed), Husk was turned into arm candy then limbo'ed. M found solace in Peter David's X-factor. Pretty nasty treatment for a small team.

And Bishop what happened to Bishop and Forge, having there hero status torpedoed the way it did...

its nice to see marvel attempt to turn that boat around.

I'd argue that depowering didn't hurt Dani Moonstar or Rictor. Dani in particular got a good deal of opportunity before and after being depowered. Neither did it hurt Prodigy who somehow managed to remain relevant unlike a lot of his New X-Men compatriots.

[Pinsir]

Are you sure regressive is the word you want to use?

It would be correct to say they were underrepresented, but there's very little way you can say they were treated poorly.

The minorities that were actually present have more or less all been treated well, unless they were villains.

The women exist purley to be love interests and the black characters are mostly side kicks.

[skyvolt2000]

If they want to really appeal to minorities this is what you do. Create an original character with his/her own history and identity and make them just as powerful and interesting as your established characters. Give the character its own book and hire good artists and writers and to make a visually appealing book with good, interesting stories. Then grab that character and have him/her appear in your movie.

Do that, instead of dressing up a minority and giving them the identity of another character.

Here is the issue-when they have tried the same fans crying about Falcon as Captain America-go off and you have a bunch of other factors to deal with.

Example Falcon get a book as Falcon

1) complaints will fire off about why does he get one over Cable or Longshot or any white male character. See Falcon is fine as long as he stays in the background (see Cyborg in Justice League).

2) the number of issues order will be different-Falcon titled series might get 20K issues ordered. And as seen with others-ALL the issues sell out. However there is no reorder with many minority lead books. Now if Captain Falcon get made you will see 50K and half will sell. Leaving plenty of unsold issues for curious readers to get.

That's your difference-I link a minority or woman to someone and they have a better shot at surviving versus being on their own.

3) readership-even the folks who hate this will still give Captain Falcon a look, they won't do that if it's just Falcon.

4) quantity of the book-I'll put it to you like this if that Captain Falcon book has Sam talking to bird for 22 page-it will STILL be superior to what we got from Static Shock. For some odd reason more effort and support is tossed into that legacy book versus the non legacy book.

5) CONTROL-this really no longer applies to Falcon-as long as I got that minority character held hostage by legacy-you are limited in what you can do with him outside of comics. You can't do Miles Morales without mentioning Peter Parker. Falcon has already been seen without Cap outside of comics.

6) Failure-if that character fails-everybody is so quick to BURY that minority. Yet a white one will get seen again.

It's extremely difficult to create ANY new characters with staying power, period.

Harley Quinn will disagree with you. Look at Harley-she has been ACTIVE in comics, trades, television and merchandise (outside of toys). This is where we have issues with our minority characters.

Where are the minority shirts, jackets, food, promotional stuff and so on? Where can I buy a Falcon jacket (not custom made) or the Storm/Ms Marvel/She Hulk purse for a girl?
Where is the Black Panther Halloween costume? Miles Morales soap? Luke Cage toothbrush? I bet I can find that stuff for Rocket Raccoon.

How are these guys suppose to last if you won't do anything with them? It took 30 years to get a Falcon trade?

Look at Static-funny how hated he is in comics but everybody knows who he is outside of comics. A cash cow sitting in limbo.

[Likewater]

That stuff doesn't work.

Marvel has tried to create new characters with lasting power in and out of established identities. They've tried promoting characters that have been around for decades. They failed too.

You assume too much about the desire of readers to flock to any well-written new minority character. It just doesn't happen. There's a lot of lip service on both sides that rarely bears out as far as the success of new characters, minority or not.

Well might I mention Generation X? Or Claremonts All New All Different X-men, or New-Mutants/X-force? Or Bishop and Gambit?

The characters have been in between 90 to well over 100 issues, Gen-X having 75 isses not counting annuels and guest appearances and team ups, Which was not easy in the crowded 90's market many of theses characters had and still have loyal fans.

The Academy X kids are relatively new, and their fans who are substantial still miss Hellion, Surge, Prodigy( who was on the newest Young Avengers), Pixie, Rockslide, Anole and so on.

For Avengers fans arr not the New Warriors filled with minority characters, a Book with more volumes than the Thunderbolts with man different incarnations?

what is the measure of sucess of a character?

[Username taken]

The problem is that Marvel has made it clear that they have no interest in a Black Panther movie and that they would rather have the Maximoff twins, Vision and Dr. Strange.

This in the light of DC's casting choices of a Jewish, olive skinned Goddess as WW, Cyborg, and a dark skinned Aquaman, and whatever the Rock is going to be.

Marvel got a lot of media hype for Miles (which was well received), Ms. Marvel (which is the first MArvel book I've read since Simonson's Thor) and a bunch of other works like the Young Avengers, but they are trying a bit too hard now.

You seem to have ignored James Rhodes in Iron man, Nick Fury (the original was white) in almost all Marvel movies, Sam Wilson in Captain America and Idris Elba as Heimdall (despite the fact that he's white in the comics) and as per the Jewish part- Robert Downey Jr is of partial Jewish origin (from his father's side).

All in all, Marvel movies have been very progressive when it comes to race.

[Username taken]

The women exist purley to be love interests and the black characters are mostly side kicks.

Black Widow was a love interest?

[Likewater]

I'd argue that depowering didn't hurt Dani Moonstar or Rictor. Dani in particular got a good deal of opportunity before and after being depowered. Neither did it hurt Prodigy who somehow managed to remain relevant unlike a lot of his New X-Men compatriots.

True with Dani and Rictor (though Rictor it was more due to Peter Davids talent, the Man is a BEAST of a writer), David it didn't effect him as He kept the Knowledge thanks to the Cookoo's. But Jubilee, Chamber, Sunfire (who has his legs cut off, depowerd, the was made a minion of apocalypse, then a villain for Messiah Complex, it was bad for.

[Kieran_Frost]

You forgot Turbo, and Hazmat. And most of those characters are associated with the X-men. Most of the Marvel main(?) avengers-esque junior teams never really make the Avengers. Even Justice and Firestar didn't get beyond the final run in the late 90's 00' to 01. Before the current era.

Actually I forgot a lot, thinking about it.

LATINO
Goldenballs
Power Man
White Tiger
Nova?

ASIAN
Hijack?

And while this is awesome, it's a little bit of a pity they are all kids, we need more adults too. It's similar with LGBT heroes, most are kids; and while more diversity is awesome, we want to sit at the big kids table too

And Bishop what happened to Bishop and Forge, having there hero status torpedoed the way it did...
its nice to see marvel attempt to turn that boat around.

Very pleased to see them turning the boat around, as they did with both Bishop and Forge's being made heroes again, thank god!

[skyvolt2000]

http://blackfolksmakingcomics.tumblr...otes-container

Welcome to “post-racial America,” boys and girls, whatever the hell that means. I’m seeing it as a period where people could say the most ignorant, bigoted things about minorities because they can and then complain when people call them on their BS.

Representation matters. We all know that, and it’s always good for future generations to see more characters who look like them.

The folks that’ll complain about Sam Wilson becoming Captain America or Calvin Ellis and Val-Zod being the Superman in their established universes think that a Black face shouldn’t be there. They’ll immediately cry that this is “political correctness” or that Marvel and DC are “appeasing social justice warriors” or some other nonsense.

The thing is we could confront these folks or we could just let them stew in their tears. The internet’s a vineyard, and it’s whine season.

Don’t let them take away your joy.

These are new stories. New adventures with new takes on familiar legacy characters that people never expected to see.

Translate-can we just see how this plays out before yelling doomsday?

[cranger]

That stuff doesn't work.

Marvel has tried to create new characters with lasting power in and out of established identities. They've tried promoting characters that have been around for decades. They failed too.

You assume too much about the desire of readers to flock to any well-written new minority character. It just doesn't happen. There's a lot of lip service on both sides that rarely bears out as far as the success of new characters, minority or not.

That has more to do with the too many options. This is not just a diversity issue. If they really want to give new characters a chance they have to take some other characters off the board. Swapping identities is just a cheat to get people to still buy, partly because it is hopefully a good story but also to see how the original character returns. Once they return, and the fill in has to move on, I do not think it is any easier to sell that character. If the intention is to launch a Falcon solo in two years, I do not know if the chances are any better now or then if the choice is still going to be does the reader want to buy Falcon in addition to Captain America. Now, maybe Marvel will have the guts to cancel Captain America and have Sam Wilson go back to his Falcon identity with his own title, but I do not see that happening.