Marvel is returning to greatness... after 18 years

[Nomads1]

Most of the problems with compression and decompression these days seem to come from fitting for the trade. Some stories have no reason to be stretched out so much.
That recent Avengers + Champions event could've been 4 issues and then there was that She-Hulk arc with the Hulked-out chef. The author did better with her one-shot issues.

Intrestingly enough, I basically tradewait everything nowadays, and I actually prefer to read the collections of stories from the 70's, 80's or 90's in trade than current stuff. It's just soooo much story in one volume. Those huge Epic trades are a dream come true (not all of them, of couse. Some stories I just don't like as much as others, but I get to pick and choose).

Peace

[Daniel22]

Intrestingly enough, I basically tradewait everything nowadays, and I actually prefer to read the collections of stories from the 70's, 80's or 90's in trade than current stuff. It's just soooo much story in one volume. Those huge Epic trades are a dream come true (not all of them, of couse. Some stories I just don't like as much as others, but I get to pick and choose).

Peace

Yeah those Epic collections are awesome. I can't wait until they start putting out even more modern stuff. What I would really like is a line that keeps the old "Essentials" format (cheap paper, black and white, but TONS of pages for your money) but publishes stuff from the 80's and 90's.

[Rincewind]

Yeah those Epic collections are awesome. I can't wait until they start putting out even more modern stuff. What I would really like is a line that keeps the old "Essentials" format (cheap paper, black and white, but TONS of pages for your money) but publishes stuff from the 80's and 90's.

Essential was my favorite format for collections of older material up through the late 80s. The price per issue was great, and the B&W let the line art really pop out. I never liked the coloring before the 90s, so that was never an issue for me. Sadly, everyone on the boards (and at my LCS) didn't like the format and it died.

[Daniel22]

Essential was my favorite format for collections of older material up through the late 80s. The price per issue was great, and the B&W let the line art really pop out. I never liked the coloring before the 90s, so that was never an issue for me. Sadly, everyone on the boards (and at my LCS) didn't like the format and it died.

I think the black and white turned most people off, but I liked it. The Epics are great but twice the price overall. Not sure how it breaks down per issue. I'd like to see Marvel publish more old stuff in the non-Epic format, though. DC does a good job putting out regular sized trades of series from the 80's and on. Those 35 and 40 dollar Complete and Epic Collections are tough sells from Marvel, but I can move the 20, 25 dollar ones DC does. That would help Marvel return to greatness (to get me sort of back on topic).

[Mike_Murdock]

See, to me, the Epic Collection is perfect. I do like color. The example I give is Panther's Rage. I first read it in Essential, which had fallen out of print and I had to buy on eBay for about 40 or 50 bucks. I bought it again when I saw they printed it in Epic Collection and the colors are really wonderful to look at. The format is just enough material to feel worth the price. I can't think of any that felt thin. I'm looking forward to them covering the 70s and 80s Marvel when Marvel was actually great (to stay on topic)

[Daniel22]

See, to me, the Epic Collection is perfect. I do like color. The example I give is Panther's Rage. I first read it in Essential, which had fallen out of print and I had to buy on eBay for about 40 or 50 bucks. I bought it again when I saw they printed it in Epic Collection and the colors are really wonderful to look at. The format is just enough material to feel worth the price. I can't think of any that felt thin. I'm looking forward to them covering the 70s and 80s Marvel when Marvel was actually great (to stay on topic)

There's a good amount of 80's and 70's stuff out now through Epics. The Essentials went back further in general than the Epics do, it felt like. But with the Epics "catching up" slowly to present day , I'm with you, there's a lot of 80's stuff I'm looking forward to. There's a new "Excalibur" coming out today that I'm getting.

[Iron Maiden]

I think the black and white turned most people off, but I liked it. The Epics are great but twice the price overall. Not sure how it breaks down per issue. I'd like to see Marvel publish more old stuff in the non-Epic format, though. DC does a good job putting out regular sized trades of series from the 80's and on. Those 35 and 40 dollar Complete and Epic Collections are tough sells from Marvel, but I can move the 20, 25 dollar ones DC does. That would help Marvel return to greatness (to get me sort of back on topic).

Add me the the list of those who miss the Essentials. It was a good way to get the older stuff if you couldn't afford the Masterworks. I like the Epic collections too because they usually contain a complete arc. I also noticed that they had begun offering digital versions also a while back.

[Marvel/DC Fan]

I loved the essentials books. I have an entire bookcase full of them. Luckily, I have been able to find quite a few of the Epic collections on clearance so I have quite a few of those too.

[MyriVerse]

I find it odd that you use a Fantastic Four emblem for an avatar but seem to have a grudge against the Inhumans. I don't blame the characters for corporate decisions. Rather silly don't you think?

Eh. Those FF stories are what give me a grudge against Inhumans, mostly.

And he doesn't seem to be blaming the characters. He's blaming the people controlling the characters.

[The BaRoN]

Avengers 1 looks amazing!!!

It's happening!!!!

[Rincewind]

See, to me, the Epic Collection is perfect. I do like color. The example I give is Panther's Rage. I first read it in Essential, which had fallen out of print and I had to buy on eBay for about 40 or 50 bucks. I bought it again when I saw they printed it in Epic Collection and the colors are really wonderful to look at. The format is just enough material to feel worth the price. I can't think of any that felt thin. I'm looking forward to them covering the 70s and 80s Marvel when Marvel was actually great (to stay on topic)

To me, the Epic line has 2 qualities that make it a great line.

1. They are released out of order. The older series have been collected in so many different formats (Essential, Omnibus, Masterwork, even Pocket book) that the material is readily available. By publishing out of order, they can fill in gaps that were never collected. And the breaks in the Epics also tend to correspond with where other collections stopped. The first Iron Man Epic released picks up right where the Michelinie/Layton omnibus ended. Same for Thor and the Simonson omnibus. Same for Hulk and the last Peter David Visionary collection.
2. They include the miscellaneous stories and graphic novels. Marvel is making sure odd stories such as Marvel Fanfare, Marvel Comics Presents, and others are included in the characters' Epic line. There were a lot of great stories that had no realistic chance of ever being collected since they were in an anthology or one shot. The kitchen sink approach appeals to my desire to see all the older material collected.

[Daniel22]

To me, the Epic line has 2 qualities that make it a great line.

1. They are released out of order. The older series have been collected in so many different formats (Essential, Omnibus, Masterwork, even Pocket book) that the material is readily available. By publishing out of order, they can fill in gaps that were never collected. And the breaks in the Epics also tend to correspond with where other collections stopped. The first Iron Man Epic released picks up right where the Michelinie/Layton omnibus ended. Same for Thor and the Simonson omnibus. Same for Hulk and the last Peter David Visionary collection.
2. They include the miscellaneous stories and graphic novels. Marvel is making sure odd stories such as Marvel Fanfare, Marvel Comics Presents, and others are included in the characters' Epic line. There were a lot of great stories that had no realistic chance of ever being collected since they were in an anthology or one shot. The kitchen sink approach appeals to my desire to see all the older material collected.

I agree that the "extras" really improve the Epics. I love the interviews, editorials, etc that they put in the back. I even love seeing the old ads! Pictures of trading cards, unused covers.. lots of cool stuff.
I never found the Masterworks to be worth the money, so I wouldn't mind seeing some of that material repackaged as Epics.

[WebLurker]

2. They include the miscellaneous stories and graphic novels. Marvel is making sure odd stories such as Marvel Fanfare, Marvel Comics Presents, and others are included in the characters' Epic line. There were a lot of great stories that had no realistic chance of ever being collected since they were in an anthology or one shot. The kitchen sink approach appeals to my desire to see all the older material collected.

Although I do wish that the ASM ones included all the SSM/WSM/etc. as well.

[CentralPower]

It's when you cram much more story in a page than you should instead of telling the story at a natural pace. It usually results in a rushed feeling and an absence of emotion.

It also looks lazy, and reads badly. Silver Age comics are lousy with it. Manga can uses it unevenly. There will be pages of de-compression, and then a very compressed fight scene, or almost a montage of compressed and jumbled fight scenes.

For all the complaining about the mercenary incentive to sell original art from splash pages that took root in the 90s, it also resulted in comics that look and read better.

It doesn't feel natural. A scene that covers Cap defrosting, meeting the Avengers, all of them giving a bunch of exposition about whothe new guy is, and Cap fighting the Avengers... That feels like it should take longer than 5 minutes or two pages.

Exactly. (Sorry, Silver Age comics ain't good.)

More pages doesn't mean it takes longer to read.

But. those pages can look and read better.

Also, the single issue format is getting increasingly obsolete. Modern comics read just fine if you don't read them in the 20 pages per month format.

BUT I WANT IT LIKE IT WAS IN 1984!


Joking aside, most readers are going to buy the same series every month. But, they cannot wait 30 days to see how things resolve. (They also want classic style cliff-hangers, but whatever.)

I was referring to the 2 pages you posted. It looks like nothing was taken out. No jumps in time, just one seamless declaration followed by Cap passing a test authenticating his assertions.

And, it reads badly.

It makes the writer's job easier because it's less plot to come up with. It also keeps people with a book who are planning on dropping it after a particular story arc has concluded.

It does not necessarily make a writer's life easier. The writer still has to write description for individual panels, and probably has to do some breakdowns for individual sequences. The difference is that we do not have to read the OCD jabber of that description. We can just look at what the artist did with it, and then move on.

Hickman uses the characters to move the story while Bendis uses the story to move the characters sometimes. Although as a side note, I just caught up on "Black Monday Murders" and I think it's Hickman's best character work yet.

I am not sure that Bendis uses story at all. He shows the characters....doing stuff. It is a story in the most basic sense (similar to Lee). But, Bendis stories are rarely meaningful.

Miles and Ganke make for amusing scenes. But, they are not memorable. The Avengers watching the news coverage of Osborn's Avengers team (from "Dark Avengers") is funny, but not terribly insightful, or even plot relevant.

To me, the Epic line has 2 qualities that make it a great line....

The problem is that most of the content is repetitive Silver Age comics, meaning that most of the trade will feel like it is reprinting itself.

[Uncanny Mutie]

BND on the verge of being reversed

Says who? Where/When was any indication of this ever given? If it was, I guess I missed the memo.