Marvel is returning to greatness... after 18 years

[Username taken]

For me, politics should serve the story... not BE the story. Also writers should write characters not mouthpieces for their own politics.

Back in the day you could have a liberal Green Arrow arguing with Conservative Hawkman or Batman/Superman debate or Green Lantern/Green Arrow. Writers could write characters with different views, because that's what the characters would believe and what they would say. They may not agree with it, but that's what Captain America or Spider-man would say.

Best example I can think of 'recently' was the awesome line 'I believe there's only one god, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that!" from Captain America in the original avengers... written by Joss Whedon a confirmed atheist. Because he believed that would be the kind of thing Captain American would say.

Politics handled like THAT, I enjoy quite a bit. But when writers come on and instantly turn any book into propaganda and shoe-horn whatever round character into whatever square peg they need to fit 'their story'... That sucks. I hate that.

I agree with this. Sometimes, a writer’s personal politics can badly affect a story (Jason Aaron’s atheism and Coates aversion to a monarchy has been very obvious in their recent Marvel work).

So far it’s not any form of discrimination and/or bigotry, I actually like to see various POVs politically in comics. Like in Infinite Crisis in the Church scene, some characters were praying and some weren’t which made a lot of sense because not all superheroes can be atheist.

However, there are some issues that people term as political that’s everyday life for some people. Lots of women and POC regularly face some form of discrimination (and in women’s case sexual harassment) no matter how successful they are (I still remember the story of Oprah being told she couldn’t shop in a jewelry store because the staff didn’t know who she was and just assumed she’s a random black woman) and when comics touch on them (which they blatantly have in the past) some people start complaining. We’re starting to see a lot more of these issues gain more prominence because we now have more women and POCs involved in the creative process and telling stories based on their experiences.

So far these issues are presented in an interesting story but still manage to impact the reader, I think it’s important these sort of stories are told.

[Carabas]

I agree with this. Sometimes, a writer’s personal politics can badly affect a story (Jason Aaron’s atheism and Coates aversion to a monarchy has been very obvious in their recent Marvel work).

Aversion to monarchs with serious political power isn't politics, it's sanity.

And atheism is only political if you live in a country where religion has way too much political power.

[The Dying Detective]

Aversion to monarchs with serious political power isn't politics, it's sanity.

And atheism is only political if you live in a country where religion has way too much political power.

Hey when for many years Wakanda did well under a monarchy and here come some guy who has issues with it then it's not very bright of them to do it.

[ed2962]

Hey when for many years Wakanda did well under a monarchy and here come some guy who has issues with it then it's not very bright of them to do it.

Questioning monarchy ( and ending with a modified version of it) is not why the Coates story is bad.

[The Dying Detective]

Questioning monarchy ( and ending with a modified version of it) is not why the Coates story is bad.

Then what was bad about it?

[Crazy Diamond]

For me, politics should serve the story... not BE the story. Also writers should write characters not mouthpieces for their own politics.

Back in the day you could have a liberal Green Arrow arguing with Conservative Hawkman or Batman/Superman debate or Green Lantern/Green Arrow. Writers could write characters with different views, because that's what the characters would believe and what they would say. They may not agree with it, but that's what Captain America or Spider-man would say.

Best example I can think of 'recently' was the awesome line 'I believe there's only one god, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that!" from Captain America in the original avengers... written by Joss Whedon a confirmed atheist. Because he believed that would be the kind of thing Captain American would say.

Politics handled like THAT, I enjoy quite a bit. But when writers come on and instantly turn any book into propaganda and shoe-horn whatever round character into whatever square peg they need to fit 'their story'... That sucks. I hate that.

Green Lantern/Green Arrow turned Hal into a conservative who got browbeat at times throughout that run for being a privileged white male. If that story had come out today rants of Denny O'Neil being a SJW and Neal Adams having an agenda would've been everywhere. Ollie got away with so much shit in that run just because he was a white liberal and his views matched up more with O'Neil's and Adams. I liked that run overall but subtle? No it was pretty blatant.

[skyvolt2000]

Then what was bad about it?

The star Black Panther being pushed aside for Midnight Angles & Storm in sad attempts to get them solo books.

Making Wakanda into a remake of Hotel Rwanda without War Machine trying to save folks.
Too much black men forever oppress black women trope with rape camps and so on.

He wrote Panther to pander to stereotypes that some folks have about blacks to make them feel good. Instead of doing what the movie did and showed how powerful that kingdom is. The women are just as deadly as the men but they are still LOYAL to Wakanda and the king no matter what. They don't rebel and try to destroy everything they voice their opinions to the king and go from there at his command.

Because it's Panther and selling-he gets away with it.

He is not paid to write stealth solos for pets. Not to use Panther's names for pet books. He is paid to write Black Panther.

Now if we get a book called Black Panther & Wakanda-different story.

[ed2962]

Then what was bad about it?

It's slow moving. It's overwritten. The lead hero comes across as passive. Action scenes are poorly thought out.

[The Dying Detective]

It's slow moving. It's overwritten. The lead hero comes across as passive. Action scenes are poorly thought out.

The star Black Panther being pushed aside for Midnight Angles & Storm in sad attempts to get them solo books.

Making Wakanda into a remake of Hotel Rwanda without War Machine trying to save folks.
Too much black men forever oppress black women trope with rape camps and so on.

He wrote Panther to pander to stereotypes that some folks have about blacks to make them feel good. Instead of doing what the movie did and showed how powerful that kingdom is. The women are just as deadly as the men but they are still LOYAL to Wakanda and the king no matter what. They don't rebel and try to destroy everything they voice their opinions to the king and go from there at his command.

Because it's Panther and selling-he gets away with it.

He is not paid to write stealth solos for pets. Not to use Panther's names for pet books. He is paid to write Black Panther.

Now if we get a book called Black Panther & Wakanda-different story.

That's also really bad and those are similar complaints to what is happening over at Detective Comics.

Well Coates sure was a bad fit for writing fiction in general if he doesn't know how to write it. And now he wants to write Captain America another character who has one of the best action scenes in comics especially when he uses his shield I don't see this going well. Yet some seem to like it for some reason. So who is going to do Black Panther now that Coates is off it?

[skyvolt2000]

That's also really bad and those are similar complaints to what is happening over at Detective Comics.

Well Coates sure was a bad fit for writing fiction in general if he doesn't know how to write it. And now he wants to write Captain America another character who has one of the best action scenes in comics especially when he uses his shield I don't see this going well. Yet some seem to like it for some reason. So who is going to do Black Panther now that Coates is off it?

If they want to stick to black writer

Redjack who posts around here and works for Marvel can do it.

David Walker could too.

Kevin G could too.

Alex Simmons could too but he's mainly Archie digests nowadays.

Chip Z I would be interested in seeing.

Not sure if he is available but Ben Aaronovitch who does Rivers of London at Titan. The lead is a black guy and there are 7 novels. Maybe for an arc at least.

[The Dying Detective]

If they want to stick to black writer

Redjack who posts around here and works for Marvel can do it.

David Walker could too.

Kevin G could too.

Alex Simmons could too but he's mainly Archie digests nowadays.

Chip Z I would be interested in seeing.

Not sure if he is available but Ben Aaronovitch who does Rivers of London at Titan. The lead is a black guy and there are 7 novels. Maybe for an arc at least.

As long as they can do better than Coates I say why not?

[Tiamatty]

That's also really bad and those are similar complaints to what is happening over at Detective Comics.

Well Coates sure was a bad fit for writing fiction in general if he doesn't know how to write it. And now he wants to write Captain America another character who has one of the best action scenes in comics especially when he uses his shield I don't see this going well. Yet some seem to like it for some reason. So who is going to do Black Panther now that Coates is off it?

Coates is still on Black Panther. He's not leaving the book.

[The Dying Detective]

Coates is still on Black Panther. He's not leaving the book.

Then I hope for the best for Black Panther fans because he really needs some help.

[The BaRoN]

Was I right or what


The dark days are over

Fantastic Four are back!
Uncanny X-Men is back!
Cyclops is back!
Wolverine is back!
Bendis is gone!

What a time to be alive!

[phonogram12]

Runaways is probably my favorite book from Marvel at the moment and they debuted in the early 2000s.