Should Lex Luthor learn magic?

[Midnighter]

So MUCH no. Just.....no.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I rather see him try and fail and swear off it in a fit of rage.

[superduperman]

That seems reasonable. I can't find fault with this.

Except for the blindness in the logic. Which Luthor can surely ignore due to his vanity. Luthor may invent something but he builds upon the work of older scientists. In a sense that is also depending. Even the basic of things like Newton's Laws of Motion is needed to make the suit. You design a suit which can fly which follows the rules of nature, a lot of which was discovered by others. The only difference between a magician and a scientist in this aspect might be that you have to be an apprentice or follower to get training in magic. But even that might not be completely accurate. All scientists do need teachers and are trained as an apprentice. The way its shown in the books that Luthor is far more intelligent then his teachers or professors is usually not how it works.

And technically humans do depend upon something outside of them when using science. You are right. Even if my logic is fine and without error, Luthor might be blind to this kind of logic due to his pride. Yet one writer in the future may write something like a humbled Luthor who sees in a different way temporarily. Luthor seems too proud to depend upon something which he could not understand clearly. Putting faith on magic would be a bit like putting faith in the Force in Star Wars. Faith appears to be more intrinsic with magic then science. Though science also has some elements of faith.

Narcissists justify things to themselves however they need to to make things work in their own minds. In this sense he IS like Dr. Doom in that nothing is ever his fault. If something goes wrong, it's because someone else sabotaged it, or if there's something wrong with it if he doesn't understand it. He understands the principles of science. How it works and why it does what it does. If magic in the DCU is something that even most magic users don't fully understand, I can see why he wouldn't trust it.

[superduperman]

I rather see him try and fail and swear off it in a fit of rage.

I'd like to see that be the official reason he doesn't use it. For someone who learns everything easily and quickly, something outside his experiences and takes time to learn could be a turn off for him. Especially if his first time using it blows up in his face and fails spectacularly. For someone who never failed before Superman came along, this can be humiliating. So he justifies in his mind why magic "doesn't work".

[llozymandias]

A scientist as brilliant as Lex would learn as much as possible about magic. Lex intends for his eventual victory over Superman to be a monument to his genius. Most magic users are nowhere near as brilliant as Lex. Spell casting usually involves invoking powerful entities, which implies trade offs that Lex would rather not make. Lex would study magic in order to come up with working defenses against it. Lex would find ways to use & generate the energies that power magic. Especially the ones that Superman can't trace.

[raidensix]

My question is, why Superman don't learn magic? He is smart, and magic being something that can harm him, it would make sense for Superman at least learn some protection spells.

Superman has always been portrayed as too stupid to take any precautions against his weaknesses. He needs to encounter the particular weakness first then make plans around it.

[jimmy]

Superman has always been portrayed as too stupid to take any precautions against his weaknesses. He needs to encounter the particular weakness first then make plans around it.

Going forward, I hope the writers really address these issues, if anything, Superman should not be portrayed as being stupid nor, susceptible to magic like he is.

[daBronzeBomma]

Interesting viewpoints from a lot of the posters here on the thread.

Wanted to give my two cents worth.

1. I asked if Luthor should "learn" magic, not "master" magic. There are (or should be) many, many levels between the magical abilities of say, the Question, and Doctor Fate. It can't (or shouldn't) just be a binary option of either completely useless at magic or completely masterful of it and no in-between. Lex doesn't need to be on Dr. Fate's level, or Zatanna's level or John Constantine's level, just not a helpless noob when confronted with it.

2. I can buy Luthor's will and intellect being shrunk ... but only toward Superman himself, not toward the nature of the DC universe. If it's not in the presence of Superman himself, Luthor's mind and focus should always be clear, and he would recognize that there are only 3 surefire ways to weaken Superman: Kryptonite (fine), Red Solar Radiation (so dumb even by pseudo-science standards), and magic (worse than Kryptonite, but not quite not as dumb as Red Sun). There is no way Luthor would close off 1/3 of his options because it's "beneath" him.

3. If using magic is beneath Lex, then so is using Kryptonite and Red Solar Radiation, as literally anyone can use the former and the latter can be done by many scientists, many of them less than 1/5th as intelligent as he is. Yet Lex has no problem using Kryptonite nor Red Solar Radiation, but gets "icky" around magic. There is no "ick" when it comes to power with Lex Luthor. Luthor should 100% believe that there is no knowledge that is not power, and magic is merely another road to more power for him.

4. Lex learning magic doesn't automatically make him OP ... not when his arch-nemesis is Superman, whose Pre-COIE incarnation remains the poster boy for OP himself (that dude could manhandle classic Silver Surfer, for Pete's sake). If anything, Lex learning magic helps level the playing field between the Most Power Super Hero On Earth and the Most Powerful Super Villain on Earth. Lex shouldn't be considered a threat only because Superman always holds back.

5. About Doctor Doom: Yes, I consider him the closest Marvel analogue to Luthor. Doom is what Luthor should be if left completely unchecked (and given even more heaping doses of bombastic rage). To use a sports analogy: if Marvel and DC had a combined "Super Villain Draft" and the various franchises (Superverse, Spiderverse, Batverse, Hulkverse, Xverse, etc) held a random lottery to get the number #1 pick, and the Superverse got that pick, Victor von Doom would be snatched up in a hurry. There is no better foil for a God selflessly trying to be a Man than a Man selfishly trying to be a God. Superman vs Dr. Doom is the ultimate Good vs Evil match-up in my eyes. We'll never get it, but there is no reason Luthor can't be made that much more formidable than he currently is.

6. There doesn't appear to be any overall rules against him learning magic, because magic never has uniform rules. You don't need to make deals with demons/gods/spirits, or be born as a member of homo magi. There is nothing to say magic can't be learned through the right books (again, no rules for magic exist that are applied consistently). Lex wouldn't need a mentor for this, he could just Good Will Hunting his way into being decently competent at the arts. Perhaps he has magical artifacts on his person at all times.

7. Finally, Lex could just employ the wildly under-used Baron Sunday as LexCorp's Chief Wizardry Officer by wildly over-paying him. For starters, Baron Sunday could teach Lex basic magical techniques, and Lex could learn the rest on his own.

Anyhoo, just my thoughts on the matter.

I also have opinions on Luthor's sense of style and how that could be improved as well

[adkal]

Sylvester Dodd (Scorpion) so reminds me of Quitely's Clark Kent

[llozymandias]

Lex would have some very good reasons to learn everything he can about magic. 1.) curiosity, Lex is first & foremost a scientist. He knows that magic exists, in his universe. There is no way that a scientist as brilliant as Lex can simply ignore it. 2.) self defense, why take the chance that a magic user might target Lex. A powerful magic user might could find ways to kill or control Lex. Or to take his genius away from him. Either by transferring it to themselves, or simply eliminating it. Making Lex a completely ordinary person. 3.) magic that can affect Superman is powered by energies that he can't trace. Sure, Lex wants his eventual victory over Superman to be a monument to his genius. Superman can see the entire electromagnetic spectrum. When Lex uses remote control to attack Superman, he can't use radio. Superman would easily trace the radio waves back to Lex's hideout.

[daBronzeBomma]

So, I was watching the newly rebooted DUCKTALES cartoon (highly recommended, btw), and there was a scene in one of the episodes that went something like this:

Scrooge McDuck's Vulture Accountants: Why is the company spending millions of dollars each year on "magical defenses"???

Scrooge McDuck: Do you have any idea how many curses and magical enemies I have to defend myself from???

And just like that, I have a new reason for Lex to learn music: forget Superman, this guy has made all sorts of enemies along the way, including magical ones who wouldn't hold back like Supes does.

Lex *has* to learn magic, or at least keep powerful mystical artifacts on his person (maybe integrated into that bomb-proof suit he wears) for his own protection from his magic-wielding enemies.

[Timothy Hunter]

No. I feel that the character of Lex Luthor, or at least my ideal Lex Luthor, that has been portrayed in the comics, relies on the full extent of his human limitations in contrast with Superman, whose power is derived from alien origins.

[SpideyCeo]

No. I feel that the character of Lex Luthor, or at least my ideal Lex Luthor, that has been portrayed in the comics, relies on the full extent of his human limitations in contrast with Superman, whose power is derived from alien origins.

Who says magic cant be part of lex using his human limits to learn from it.

[Robanker]

I feel like he literally couldn't because he'd find a way to scientifically explain what he did. Lex wouldn't learn magic, he'd bring it under heel and turn it into science. To allow himself into a field he can't control, merely access and bend instead of outright dominate, seems like something he wouldn't accept.

To be blunt, he doesn't have the right mind for magic; to him it's just undiscovered science that chimps have been playing at without properly understanding, no matter the evidence to the contrary. The only reason he claims to want a level playing field is that with his intellect, resources and will, he'll always come out on top. He wants a level field because the deck's stacked in his favor and when it comes to LexCorp, he makes sure the house always wins. He doesn't seem to butt heads with Batman outside of the usual cape endeavor (their business sides rarely interact) probably because it's a fair fight and he can't just outright muscle Bruce out. He rationalizes hating Superman because he trivializes human accomplishment, but it's really always about Lex in particular. The rest just makes his motivations sound loftier when the answer is a bruised ego.

Outside of the challenge, I don't see why he'd want to, anyway. Superman isn't "weak" to magic, it's an equalizer to him because he's no more invulnerable to it than Lex, and Lex doesn't want an equal playing field despite his claims-- Lex wants to be superior. He'd want something that put him above Clark, so magic isn't interesting. "Kryptonite? That's interesting. Red sunlight? Love those rays. Magic? That's for rubes. Leave that to the hippie in the gilded spittoon and ankh."

[llozymandias]

I feel like he literally couldn't because he'd find a way to scientifically explain what he did. Lex wouldn't learn magic, he'd bring it under heel and turn it into science. To allow himself into a field he can't control, merely access and bend instead of outright dominate, seems like something he wouldn't accept.

To be blunt, he doesn't have the right mind for magic; to him it's just undiscovered science that chimps have been playing at without properly understanding, no matter the evidence to the contrary. The only reason he claims to want a level playing field is that with his intellect, resources and will, he'll always come out on top. He wants a level field because the deck's stacked in his favor and when it comes to LexCorp, he makes sure the house always wins. He doesn't seem to butt heads with Batman outside of the usual cape endeavor (their business sides rarely interact) probably because it's a fair fight and he can't just outright muscle Bruce out. He rationalizes hating Superman because he trivializes human accomplishment, but it's really always about Lex in particular. The rest just makes his motivations sound loftier when the answer is a bruised ego.

Outside of the challenge, I don't see why he'd want to, anyway. Superman isn't "weak" to magic, it's an equalizer to him because he's no more invulnerable to it than Lex, and Lex doesn't want an equal playing field despite his claims-- Lex wants to be superior. He'd want something that put him above Clark, so magic isn't interesting. "Kryptonite? That's interesting. Red sunlight? Love those rays. Magic? That's for rubes. Leave that to the hippie in the gilded spittoon and ankh."

It could be argued that Lex trivializes human accomplishment. Why wouldn't a scientist see magic as undiscovered science? Lex needs to be able to protect himself from magic users. He might not use magic directly against Superman. It still has uses.