Should Lex Luthor learn magic?

[Ra-El]

My question is, why Superman don't learn magic? He is smart, and magic being something that can harm him, it would make sense for Superman at least learn some protection spells.

[superduperman]

Luthor seems to have an aversion to human enhancement in general. Which seems to be one of the reasons he hates Superman. Using magic would be seen as just that. "Cheating" because his intellect isn't enough. He'd be admitting what he has isn't enough to defeat Superman and he needs to go outside of himself for help. His ego won't allow that. The moment he has to use something not already at his disposal or his resources is the moment he's admitting he's "weak" and not good enough. It has to be him and his brilliance that defeats Superman. Not some handicap. He took it personally when Doomsday killed Superman because he saw him as HIS kill! And this brainless creature deprived him of what he thought was his right.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Nobody, no matter how smart, masters all fields of knowledge.

And the ability to use magic at a useful level may be limited by traits other than intelligence.

And, on a meta-level, magic is not part of Luthor's archetype. He's a scientist and a businessman.

He should hire people who can do magic for him.

[Mutant God]

But he only believes in logic despite his life being dominated by this huge collection of illogical beliefs and standpoints.

Yes some people can't and won't admit that they are wrong.

Like okay, Superman doesn't have special defense against magic. But he's so, so experienced in working around that, I have to say at this point having some guy just randomly learn it to stifle him seems like bad writing. It's like how Joker is not a fighter but gives good resistance... if he learned martial arts on top of that, it still wouldn't look good for him to really fight well against Batman, because he's a neophyte working away from his true passion.

Joker's a psycho he is too crazy to feel pain lol. Joker would probably invent his own martial art style and call it "Evil Jester" lol.

[Lukmendes]

It's not something I'd like to happen, it just sounds unfitting for Lex to do, but I'll say it can work if done well, after all, Lex went from scientist in pre-crisis to businessman in post-crisis, and only years later he got the scientist part back, but even so, Magician Luthor sounds more fitting for some alternate universe.

[Mutant God]

It's not something I'd like to happen, it just sounds unfitting for Lex to do, but I'll say it can work if done well, after all, Lex went from scientist in pre-crisis to businessman in post-crisis, and only years later he got the scientist part back, but even so, Magician Luthor sounds more fitting for some alternate universe.

Or maybe an alternate Dr. Fate

[Sacred Knight]

My question is, why Superman don't learn magic? He is smart, and magic being something that can harm him, it would make sense for Superman at least learn some protection spells.

It would make a lot of sense for someone like Zatanna to teach him a couple things. Rudaimentary, novice protection at the very least. Could fail more often than not but hey, at least its in the back pocket to try. But knowing DC they'd be quicker to make up some lame excuse that even TRYING to use it is somehow poisonous to Kryptonians or some crap.

[Kuwagaton]

Superman learning magic defense probably falls under the same umbrella as using the Super-mobile from 40 years ago during his many inconvenient flying situations: it's kinda boring.

Joker's a psycho he is too crazy to feel pain lol. Joker would probably invent his own martial art style and call it "Evil Jester" lol.

Sounds like a good silver age story.

It's not something I'd like to happen, it just sounds unfitting for Lex to do, but I'll say it can work if done well, after all, Lex went from scientist in pre-crisis to businessman in post-crisis, and only years later he got the scientist part back, but even so, Magician Luthor sounds more fitting for some alternate universe.

He was a businessman man pre crisis and a scientist post crisis, it's just that not many stories used both ideas at once. Magic Luthor isn't necessarily wrong to me, but it is a deviation.

[Jon Clark]

But why do you say this? Its illogical for Luthor to not to believe in magic when magic clearly exists in DC universe.

Ask Mr Terrific who despite having the Spectre in his origin story and working alongside Johnny Thunder and Doctor Fate still believes there is a scientific explanation for supposedly supernatural effects.

I personally prefer magic to be sort of anti-science. The sort of thing where someone who holds too tightly to things like the laws of physics or causality simply can't follow magical logic enough to master it. So with certain exceptions like Doctor Doom- the guy in the high-tech armor and the spellcasting wizard simply don't live in the same universe. Doctor Fate has trouble understanding quantum physics and Luthor can't wrap his mind around spouting "nonsense" while flexing his fingers can effect Superman.

[superduperman]

It would make a lot of sense for someone like Zatanna to teach him a couple things. Rudaimentary, novice protection at the very least. Could fail more often than not but hey, at least its in the back pocket to try. But knowing DC they'd be quicker to make up some lame excuse that even TRYING to use it is somehow poisonous to Kryptonians or some crap.

I could see her teaching her friends something useful to their particular skill set. For instance, teaching Bruce a healing spell. Or Clark how to block other magic spells. A sort of low level shielding. You don't have to be an expert at a skill to learn the most rudimentary aspects of it.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Yes, Magic is just another language that Luthor can master with focus, effort, and purpose.

[Soubhagya]

Luthor seems to have an aversion to human enhancement in general. Which seems to be one of the reasons he hates Superman. Using magic would be seen as just that. "Cheating" because his intellect isn't enough. He'd be admitting what he has isn't enough to defeat Superman and he needs to go outside of himself for help. His ego won't allow that. The moment he has to use something not already at his disposal or his resources is the moment he's admitting he's "weak" and not good enough. It has to be him and his brilliance that defeats Superman. Not some handicap. He took it personally when Doomsday killed Superman because he saw him as HIS kill! And this brainless creature deprived him of what he thought was his right.

It raises the question that Kryptonite suit is also an enhancement. How is that suit okay and not magic? It feels like i could think of an answer. But i can't reach it.

I could see her teaching her friends something useful to their particular skill set. For instance, teaching Bruce a healing spell. Or Clark how to block other magic spells. A sort of low level shielding. You don't have to be an expert at a skill to learn the most rudimentary aspects of it.

I agree about that. Superman is considered as one of the best heroes in DC universe itself. How can he be when as soon as magic crops up he is completely useless? Some basic, rudimentary knowledge may allow him to at least defend himself and protect others. That last part is his motive when fighting. Not defeating or beating up villains. Kryptonite is his weakness anyway. Why make him completely ineffective against magic too? Don't let him go like changing mighty rivers by magic. He can do that by his bare hands. Or magical lightening from his hands. But something very rudimentary like shield against magic might be good. When his body is not invulnerable to shield others he can use magical shields. Not sure about healing. It is starting to turn into real magic. Maybe a little bit of healing for emergency situations. Not like he can cure diseases or something.

[Soubhagya]

Ask Mr Terrific who despite having the Spectre in his origin story and working alongside Johnny Thunder and Doctor Fate still believes there is a scientific explanation for supposedly supernatural effects.

I personally prefer magic to be sort of anti-science. The sort of thing where someone who holds too tightly to things like the laws of physics or causality simply can't follow magical logic enough to master it. So with certain exceptions like Doctor Doom- the guy in the high-tech armor and the spellcasting wizard simply don't live in the same universe. Doctor Fate has trouble understanding quantum physics and Luthor can't wrap his mind around spouting "nonsense" while flexing his fingers can effect Superman.

One part of the scientific method is that a scientist can get observable results by following the same or similar process each time.

Say a scientist in a laboratory in India gets a certain result by following a certain process, another scientist in USA can repeat the same process to get similar results. That is the way scientific process works. Magic is something which someone can learn in DC universe. Its nature might not have been properly explained but there are lots of people who can get the same result by following a specific method. Even if that method could be something like lighting up candles under the full moon of last month of winter or something like that. There's process. There's training. And there's observable result which can be repeated. I don't see it to be too different from a lab experiment in this respect.

The one difference might be that the instruments used in a magical instrument includes the person himself. In scientific experiments the scientist is an observer. He does not participate directly in an experiment. But magic can involve the person too. For example, say magic requires a healthy diet and meditation. Then the body and mind of the magician is part of the process of magic.

[Soubhagya]

I think even in a world where magic is clearly shown some men believe logic is all science and magic is fake and all "hocus pocus". I think Luhtor is a type of guy who believes magic is nonsense and beneath him.

Magic as something beneath him is understandable.

That would lead to another story in the early years of Luthor. In his origin. Why he thinks that magic is beneath him? I am wondering why no writer has ever thought of this. There has to be a comment somewhere. For killing Superman he could fall to great depths. That's an obsession of Luthor. I posted that picture from Superman Adventures #27. 'How Much Can One Man Hate?" If you haven't read that please check that out. Its really good. He simply can't tolerate someone else as the number one guy in Metropolis. The people adoring Superman above him. It makes all sense that after some time after numerous defeats at the hands of Superman he will start thinking about using magic against Superman.

He has to have a genuine repulsion for magic.

[Jon Clark]

One part of the scientific method is that a scientist can get observable results by following the same or similar process each time.

Say a scientist in a laboratory in India gets a certain result by following a certain process, another scientist in USA can repeat the same process to get similar results. That is the way scientific process works. Magic is something which someone can learn in DC universe. Its nature might not have been properly explained but there are lots of people who can get the same result by following a specific method. Even if that method could be something like lighting up candles under the full moon of last month of winter or something like that. There's process. There's training. And there's observable result which can be repeated. I don't see it to be too different from a lab experiment in this respect..

So everyone in the DCU who says "Namrepus, raeppasid!" can get the same results as Zatara and Zatanna? The process is just speaking backwards after all. Other than learning to think of words that way thete is no training involved. If you just wrote down common words in reverse you could have a spell book in no time. Doesn't even require getting hit by lightning or falling into a vat of chemicals. Why doesn't everyone in the DCU just figure this out and learn magic?

My understanding of magic is that the whole reason it is magic and not science is because it is not something easily reproduced. A dozen test subjects using the same materials (clay from the beach of Themyscria, the hair of Samson, the phrase "3X2(9YZ)4A") do not get the same results. Some people get one result, some get another, and some get no result at all.

With science a magnet works whether you believe in it or not. It works the same whether you are a 5 year old who understands it is a magnet or a physicist who can give a thesis on the reasons it works.

Now an enchanted item- a wand, a wishing stone, ... Well, that might work for everyone. But not just anyone can create one from non-magic material. So I can have a magic wand tested scientifically and find that it produces the same result for any user everytime- but odds are there is nothing I can find about that wand that could be used to create a copy or be used to determine what effect (if any) another wand will have.

Even races like the Amazons who have magic items seem to have people who wield magic and people who don't. It isn't a universal skill that the whole group shares equally. And it isn't described as something the non-magical just haven't learned like blacksmithing or medicine.

So I just don't buy the Lex could just learn magic because it's another science logic.