Is Gwen Stacy is Canon Mary Sue?

[Celgress]

No, because if she were a Mary Sue, she would have killed Norman Osborn instead.

That is actually a good point lol.

[Frontier]

She still doesn't have enough well-defined traits as a character to be labelled as a Mary Sue. Not to mention no uniformity in characterisation. Spider-Gwen is a completely different character from Lee/Romita Gwen. Lee/Romita Gwen was a completely different character from Ditko Gwen. And none of these characters fit the St. Gwen image pushed post her death in stories like Spider-Man: Blue. Emma Stone's Gwen was underdeveloped and was just superficially painted as "perfect" so as to have an impact when she was led to the slaughter.

What an inconsistent mess lol.

No character gets revamped and changed in each subsequent new depiction as much as Gwen Stacy .

[SilverWarriorWolf]

No character gets revamped and changed in each subsequent new depiction as much as Gwen Stacy .

You mean “...LIKE Gwen Stacy!”

Cookies to anyone who gets that reference.

[WebLurker]

Slott's Silk is pretty much what a Mary Sue with flaws looks like, although there are far worse around, like Sentry when they really wanna kiss his ass.

Not familiar with that character (aside from her getting universal hatred when Slott wrote her, but being liked when other writers got involved).

Gwen not having flaws in ASM movies makes her into a "Miss Perfect", but that's hardly what a true Mary Sue is like, though not having flaws is a trait, but even Spider-Man gets some traits once in a while (Hint hint, his victory over Firelord is complete bullshit), having some traits is hardly that much of a problem, it can be annoying though, but that depends both on the trait and the execution.

Read the Firelord story once and I don't recall any problems with it. My thing with as ASM movie Gwen is that she's a flat, underdeveloped character (a plot device, at best). If that's not a Mary Sue, then I will concede to misusing the term.

[Lukmendes]

Not familiar with that character (aside from her getting universal hatred when Slott wrote her, but being liked when other writers got involved).

Man, you really avoided some colossal shit, keep it that way lol.

Read the Firelord story once and I don't recall any problems with it.

It's a fine story if you don't know who Firelord is, but once you know that he's around the same level as Silver Surfer/Thor/Hulk, and that Spidey was never, ever able to even really injure anyone on that level before or after this (With the exception of that time he fought Gray Hulk, but Spidey had Captain Universe's power), and that he defeated Firelord without a being touched, well, again, it's complete bullshit.

My thing with as ASM movie Gwen is that she's a flat, underdeveloped character (a plot device, at best). If that's not a Mary Sue, then I will concede to misusing the term.

Basicaly a Mary Sue is a character who's "perfect" to obnoxious levels, and other characters overpraise them, many times mentioning traits they don't really have, characters who dislike them are often jealous and are disliked just because they dislike the Mary Sue, and in the case of super hero stuff, they get absurd feats and other characters overpraise said feats, and may/will make otherwise competent characters look bad or become less competent, break stabilished rules and often be the only ones who can do it for no reason, again, they don't have to have all of those traits and others I didn't list (Don't really remember all), but the main point is that Mary Sues are poorly written characters who the writter wants them to be awesome and end up making them obnoxious, but again, having Mary Sue traits is not necessarily bad it really depends on which ones, and all of them depend on the execution.

[Alan2099]

My thing with as ASM movie Gwen is that she's a flat, underdeveloped character (a plot device, at best). If that's not a Mary Sue, then I will concede to misusing the term.

You're misusing the term.

Bland and underdeveloped are not defining traits of a Mary Sue.

If you want a Mary Sue, look for a character that hogs the spotlight and is annoyingly perfect.

[Kevinroc]

You're misusing the term.

Bland and underdeveloped are not defining traits of a Mary Sue.

If you want a Mary Sue, look for a character that hogs the spotlight and is annoyingly perfect.

Like Batman?

(I actually think Batman is a great character. But you know I'm not wrong. )

[Alan2099]

Like Batman?

(I actually think Batman is a great character. But you know I'm not wrong. )

I was actually going to say Batman, but I thought it might come off as mean spirited and i didn't want to start an argument. Batman though, he's 110% Mary Sue. yes, that's more than 100%, but like any good Mary Sue, 100% just isn't good enough.

You do make me think of one specific trait worth mention though. Everybody always talks about how great the character is. I don't mean in real life, I mean in universe.

[Confuzzled]

The Tom King run is actually the first time in the character's near 80 year history where someone is actually exploring Bruce Wayne's mental issues beyond "brooding" and "haunted".

[Kevinroc]

I was actually going to say Batman, but I thought it might come off as mean spirited and i didn't want to start an argument. Batman though, he's 110% Mary Sue. yes, that's more than 100%, but like any good Mary Sue, 100% just isn't good enough.

You do make me think of one specific trait worth mention though. Everybody always talks about how great the character is. I don't mean in real life, I mean in universe.

One of the things I find fascinating is we see current Batman writers unafraid of doing "Batman ***** up stories" and not place the blame on other characters at the end of the day. For the longest time, DC never did those kinds of stories.

The Tom King run is actually the first time in the character's near 80 year history where someone is actually exploring Bruce Wayne's mental issues beyond "brooding" and "haunted".

"The War of Jokes and Riddles" is a big "Batman ****** up" story.

[WebLurker]

Man, you really avoided some colossal shit, keep it that way lol.

I kinda have extremely narrow tastes when it comes to comics.

It's a fine story if you don't know who Firelord is, but once you know that he's around the same level as Silver Surfer/Thor/Hulk, and that Spidey was never, ever able to even really injure anyone on that level before or after this (With the exception of that time he fought Gray Hulk, but Spidey had Captain Universe's power), and that he defeated Firelord without a being touched, well, again, it's complete bullshit.

Hmm, I'm going to need to re-read that one again now.

Basicaly a Mary Sue is a character who's "perfect" to obnoxious levels, and other characters overpraise them, many times mentioning traits they don't really have, characters who dislike them are often jealous and are disliked just because they dislike the Mary Sue, and in the case of super hero stuff, they get absurd feats and other characters overpraise said feats, and may/will make otherwise competent characters look bad or become less competent, break stabilished rules and often be the only ones who can do it for no reason, again, they don't have to have all of those traits and others I didn't list (Don't really remember all), but the main point is that Mary Sues are poorly written characters who the writter wants them to be awesome and end up making them obnoxious, but again, having Mary Sue traits is not necessarily bad it really depends on which ones, and all of them depend on the execution.

Okay.

[Frontier]

The Tom King run is actually the first time in the character's near 80 year history where someone is actually exploring Bruce Wayne's mental issues beyond "brooding" and "haunted".

I feel like Moench, Dixon, Rucka, Brubaker, Morrison, even Snyder have ally played with that to some degree.

[Scott Taylor]

A Mary Sue, by definition, has to be annoying. Batman is not annoying, he's Batman.

Annie in RYV is a Mary Sue, pretty much.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

A Mary Sue, by definition, has to be annoying. Batman is not annoying, he's Batman.

Annie in RYV is a Mary Sue, pretty much.

In both cases, that is debatable and depends on the writer.

Just read All Star Batman and Robin. Or, on second thought, spare yourself the pain of Crazy Steve.

[Kevinroc]

A Mary Sue, by definition, has to be annoying. Batman is not annoying, he's Batman.

Annie in RYV is a Mary Sue, pretty much.

Annie is definitely not a Mary Sue.

People overuse the term "Mary Sue" so much as to mean "any character I personally dislike" if they think Annie falls into that.