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  1. #16
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    In many ways, Gaea makes for a horrible patron—she's way to inactive and distant and primordial. The connection should likely be strong but impersonal and vague.

    Hestia's withdrawal from her spot as one of the twelve Olympians is however an analogue to the way the Amazons withdrew from the world. Thus I think that while the Amazons initially might be connected to Aphrodite, it makes a lot of sense that Hestia had a hand in creating Themyscira and became more important to them over time.

    BTW, I like the blessings take, where Diana receives various properties or gifts from the goddesses. She is not having any one of them as her own patron, but tries to balance all of them.
    What you said sounds very interesting to me. I like the idea of Diana’s reincarnated soul being born in the womb of Gaea. When Ares wondered what kind of god Diana would be, I see Diana as a goddess of balance and truth. The idea that she has to balance the different natures of the goddesses due to their unique blessings to her sounds very intriguing. I definitely think something interesting can be done with that. Of course, we can’t have that now with the current Zeus origin in place unfortunately.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why not have Gaea be more active? That she is more active with the amazons then the world. Why not have all the female and a few of the males gods create the amazons

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I'm always showing my Perezian roots around here, but I kind of like that all the goddesses plus Hermes and minus Hera (IIRC) had a hand in granting Diana her powers. And I guess we have something similar with the patrons visiting Diana in Man's World and bestowing her her gifts in Rucka's Year One.

    Besides now being a sibling to some of them, it adds another aspect of their relationship to consider if/when Diana gets back to talking to the Olympians.

    As for the Amazons, I also liked that the female deities lead them to Themyscira and blessed them. I think they might be more special as gods to them because of that, but doesn't negate honoring great mother Gaea and other deities too.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Would it be wrong for the Amazons to have all female deities? This doesn't negate any of the male ones. Why not have it be that Gaea did stop being activated because of the Gods kept spreading evil. She stopped trying to communicate and so left but she didn't completely go. She went to her own made dimension and created the Amazons. After realizing this Athena and the goddesses went to Gaea and they stuck up a deal and help train the amazons

  5. #20
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    What's wrong with Aphrodite being the main patron? There has to be a reason why William Marston chosed her instead of the other goddesses.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I wonder that too. I mean at times Aphrodite was petty in the Greek myths. But she also good characteristics in the myths. I mean if she was born from sea foam and changed her ways it's easier to see why she created the Amazons.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    We simply do not know how Marston viewed the Greek gods and goddesses. I'd also say that our interpretation of them has changed since then—just as since the days of the ancient Greeks!

    All of the Greek gods have both good and bad sides; in many ways they are archetypes of human behaviour or personalities, and it was likely both common and expected that a person could change which deity was most important to them depending on personal and social circumstances.

    At the same time, I see no need for this to be fixed in any way (either as in retcon the background or in saying it cannot be changed). What's important is rather that the background makes sense internally, are at least recognisable as Greek mythology, and that it provides for good storytelling. The Perez run gives a good and flexible framework there, given the way that several of the goddesses have an interest in the Amazons and Diana. The main quibble I have with it is that the goddesses possibly are presented as a little too united and of common minds, but that is partly a result of the story that Perez set out to tell.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    The question also is should we go with more female greek gods and titans? I mean I actually think maybe Rhea, Thetis, Persephone, and Hephaestus?

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    The question also is should we go with more female greek gods and titans? I mean I actually think maybe Rhea, Thetis, Persephone, and Hephaestus?
    Hephaestus is male, but in a way, I think it's better to keep the list somewhat short. First, I think it's better to have fewer but better developed supporting characters (and that goes for any story) than many one-note ones. By focusing on the Olympians, you also get characters who are fairly well-known and have strong connections with each other. So I see no real on-going role for Rhea or Thetis.

    I can see introducing Hephaestus in some way, but perhaps mainly in his connection with the other goddesses (like in the Perez run); I think his role as the god of craftsmanship doesn't really gel with Diana's character anyway.

    Persephone is a whole other kettle of fish. She is well-known still, and back in antiquity she carried scary connotations like no other as the goddess of life and death. Not evil (just as Hades wasn't evil) but someone to tread extremely lightly around.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    How short should the list be? Should it be all female or mixed? I don’t mind either. Because you can’t always add more later on

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Hephaestus had an interesting connection in the DCAU since the magic armor Diana wore had been created by him. What else has he made that the Amazons use?

    As for a goddess who should explicitly not be a patron, at least not for Themiscyran amazons: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Pele Her personality fits. It's mainly because she's part of the Hawaiian pantheon.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 04-01-2018 at 08:01 AM.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    How short should the list be? Should it be all female or mixed? I don’t mind either. Because you can’t always add more later on
    It should be exactly as long as it should be

    It really depends on a lot of factors, and the most important one is arguably that the character can get the space in the stories, and the relation with Diana, that they deserve. More mythical adventures thus means more spots for figures from Greek mythology. That said, I think it's better to keep the number of allies and helpers relatively low, otherwise you can end up with something like the God of the Day or turning Diana into a side character in her own stories.

    Aphrodite and Athena are already well established as helpers and patrons. Perez also used Hermes and Artemis a bit, and I can see trying to bring in some of Hestia. Demeter and Persephone I view as more aloof, but benevolent. Hera and Zeus I can see as troublesome friends, and Hades as an honourable antagonist. Poseidon as a very suspicious friend (he's more about the Atlanteans). Ares is of course an enemy. Hephaestus and Apollo are rather aloof, and require the intervention of the other deities.

    If one is to bring in other deities, I think Hekate tops the list, as she can easily be seen as connected to Circe (she's Circe's mother in some myths), though arguably Hekate should likely be more of an ambigious fugure. Phobos and Deimos are allies to Ares.

    (One way to do a high-mythic adventure is of course to have Diana handle a quarrel between the Olympic gods. Not Ares trying to supplant Zeus, but more akin to the Trojan war.)

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What relationship should Hekate have with the Amazons? It should be a messy relationship. By that, you have Hekate, Circe, and the Amazons. I do think that maybe that's how some amazons get their magical abilities.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    First, I think one should see the relationship that the Greek gods have with the Amazons as distinct from their relationship with Diana, and that again is true when individual Amazons are considered.

    But given Hekate's role within Greek mythology, she can play all sorts of roles towards the Amazons, up to being a central deity (if one wants to get away from Perez). I'm not so much interested in saying how things should be, much more in things that make sense (from a mythological or factual perspective) and provides for meaningful storytelling in a shared commercial context.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Maybe a group of amazons have Hecate as their main Parton for blessing them with magical powers.

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