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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Default Honest thoughts on Superman: The Animated Series?

    I'm sure we've had threads on this on the past, but I was just looking at this show again...and while it's good, it really is lacking in parts. I wish we got to see more Clark, the origin being so tied to Braniac is annoying, it pales in comparison to Batman TAS so much..I mean yeah, it's a solid cartoon, but I wish it adapted and took more from the comics. Saying this, I did enjoy the series at some points like Turpin's death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0pcChyV6o4

    Honestly the buildup to Darkseid is the best part about the show imo.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Like a lot of things from back in that day and age, I thought a lot of things were good...except Superman himself. He was the least interesting part. The villains were good, the supporting cast was good, but then you get to the main character and he's bland as can be.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Like a lot of things from back in that day and age, I thought a lot of things were good...except Superman himself. He was the least interesting part. The villains were good, the supporting cast was good, but then you get to the main character and he's bland as can be.
    Yeah, I guess that's accurate. Maybe that's why I find myself not connecting with the show that well, Superman himself being bland.

  4. #4
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    I'll give them Mxyzptlk and Bizarro. To me they are the definitive versions, that I think are must see for anyone thinking of using the characters. Their Metallo is was better than any version I've seen in comics. And Dana Delaney's Lois was spot-on.

    The problem was that except for Lois their was really no continuity from episode to episode. I don't mean backstory or subplot stuff, but more that Batman or the X-Men or Spider-man had more realized worlds. You had things that were there in episodes that could hold your interest if the plot of the week fell flat. It might be Alfred's verbal wit or Hamill's Joker or Harley, one of the X-Men's expansive cast, Spidey's supporting cast. With Superman as other's pointed out the character himself wasn't that interesting and in some episodes he was literally the only thing that was a constant. So if the plot of the week didn't appeal to you the whole episode was a bust.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think it's underrated, but not by much. It is more consistent in quality than B:TAS, which had some terrible episodes, but never reached the heights of the best episodes either. Even at it's low points, I think B:TAS got by on the atmosphere and the elegant distillation of the mythos it was adapting. This seriously didn't do for the Superman mythos what the other cartoon did for Batman's. I think it's very, very good and certainly the best you are going to get for Superman in the DCAU, but the character and his world lend themselves to so much better.

    I think I read an interview where Bruce Timm said Superman is not as intrinsically interesting as Batman, and that about says it all. Also on one of the DVD features, he said they brought in the Fourth World stuff because after a certain point, Superman didn't have many interesting villains or locations to utilize. Which is just straight up bonkers because they only featured the Phantom Zone in like two episodes, and the Legion of Superheroes in one. They should have brought Supergirl in earlier and utilized some of her stuff, or the Legion of Supervillains, the Fatal Five, Mordru, the Time Trapper or a Sun Eater if they wanted to broaden the rogues gallery. The Fourth World stuff was well done, but also feels a bit intrusive. That stuff has a stronger connection to Superman than most other corners of the DCU, but they are not regular features.

    On the plus side, they had the best version of Toyman, Brainiac was better than the post-Crisis version, and their solution to having Supergirl without her being a Kryptonian is so much more elegant than the weird ass stuff the comics writers came up with it's embarrassing.

  6. #6
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the animated series. I loved Batman Beyond and BtAS, but StAS wasn't for me. Didn't care for the Justice League shows either. Superman was pretty weak character wise.

  7. #7

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    Given the show itself and the quote above, Bruce Timm simply isn't really a Superman fan, and it shows.

    He may have been a fan of the Fleisher Studio style and their 1940s Superman cartoons, and that's why he brought it into Batman: The Animated Series, but as far as Superman the character is concerned, I don't think he ever really got him.

    I much prefer the Ruby-Spears Superman even though that series is more kiddiefied.

    That having been said, there were a few episodes of STAS where they knocked it out of the park, but just a few.

  8. #8
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I haven't seen it in maybe five years, so I don't entirely trust my memory. I remember being really freaking pumped when it was set to debut right along the beginning of 4th grade, and it was my favorite show after King of the Hill.

    Last I watched was the episodes with the Legion going back to his high school and Legacy, the two parter roughly based on Dark Side. Which I hadn't read back then. I liked them well enough but watching three episodes of the show in so many years makes it difficult to assess.

    From what I remember, I can easily understand why it won awards. It had a slick, streamlined (if stripped and watered down) post crisis interpretation of Superman that made it easy for anyone to dig into. The soundtrack was great, the designs and animations were consistently above average, and the voice actors were dead on. Daly, Delaney, and Brown even could have done live action had they made a movie in the late 80s, they fit the characters that well. There was a ton of action that you couldn't find in the Marvel cartoons and that springboarded the larger DC universe in cartoons, which is really cool.

    The idea that Superman was the least interesting part... well, young Clark was very much like his New 52 version and the older Clark had a nice bit of self deprecating humor, but I'll have to watch again.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think it's underrated, but not by much. It is more consistent in quality than B:TAS, which had some terrible episodes, but never reached the heights of the best episodes either. Even at it's low points, I think B:TAS got by on the atmosphere and the elegant distillation of the mythos it was adapting. This seriously didn't do for the Superman mythos what the other cartoon did for Batman's. I think it's very, very good and certainly the best you are going to get for Superman in the DCAU, but the character and his world lend themselves to so much better.

    I think I read an interview where Bruce Timm said Superman is not as intrinsically interesting as Batman, and that about says it all. Also on one of the DVD features, he said they brought in the Fourth World stuff because after a certain point, Superman didn't have many interesting villains or locations to utilize. Which is just straight up bonkers because they only featured the Phantom Zone in like two episodes, and the Legion of Superheroes in one. They should have brought Supergirl in earlier and utilized some of her stuff, or the Legion of Supervillains, the Fatal Five, Mordru, the Time Trapper or a Sun Eater if they wanted to broaden the rogues gallery. The Fourth World stuff was well done, but also feels a bit intrusive. That stuff has a stronger connection to Superman than most other corners of the DCU, but they are not regular features.

    On the plus side, they had the best version of Toyman, Brainiac was better than the post-Crisis version, and their solution to having Supergirl without her being a Kryptonian is so much more elegant than the weird ass stuff the comics writers came up with it's embarrassing.
    In the commentary for New Kids in Town (season three, where Brainiac does a Terminator and the Legion need to intervene) it's noted that this was the first episode since the second (first storyline was over the first three episodes) to feature pre-Superman Clark. That setting could have fleshed out young Clark's life, other characters in that (more Jonathan, Martha and Lana for example), him getting to grips with his powers etc. Peppering the series with flashbacks could have helped to flesh out Clark as a character, and maybe even flashback episodes for other character like Perry and Luthor.

    Another wasted storyline was one introduced in season three. In Brightest Day introduced Kyle Rayner as the first Green Lantern of the DCAU, already working in the Daily Planet art department and a friend of Jimmy Olsen. It opens up the cosmic universe beyond the Fourth World stuff and evil Kryptonians, as well as fleshing out Jimmy's character (he could have had a recurring storyline where Kyle tries and fails to achieve a GL/Daily Planet balance at Jimmy's expense) And yet Kyle not only appears in the one episode of Superman TAS, he only appears in one other DCAU episode (the Justice League episode Legacy iirc).

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I think in one of the bonus features for the first season (I'll have to go back and check for sure) they said they had seriously considered not even giving him flight in terms of powering him down but realized it went too far. So the powering down thing was obviously deliberate from the start. It's odd that they would use Kyle (this seems like another one of those "DC keeping them on short leash" things where they were only allowed to use what was in the books at the time) and then just drop him once the JL cartoon started. The timeline with the DCAU never seemed to make sense to me. How long was John Stewart active before he joined the JL?
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