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  1. #16
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Hmmm.... I've heard that Dini statement paraphrased. If he really thinks he brought in Kirby elements, when Kirby himself had them sprout from Jimmy Olsen and they re-emerged in the late 80s, that's kind of odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    I could have done with Superman being just a little bit more powerful and occasionally pulling off feats that we didn't think he was capable of. But there was so much fixation on him grunting and straining and struggling to perform the most mundane feats of strength that they forgot that superheroes are supposed to wow the viewers, not always stick strictly to the expectations of realism enthusiasts.

    It was a great show but not quite my ideal interpretation of Superman.
    It was the Fleischer cartoon version in a different setting. But he was the most powerful person in the animated universe until maybe the JLU.

    Nice. I wonder if they ever did a read along companion series to the episodes somewhere.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Nice. I wonder if they ever did a read along companion series to the episodes somewhere.
    Read along companion series?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think it's underrated, but not by much. It is more consistent in quality than B:TAS, which had some terrible episodes, but never reached the heights of the best episodes either. Even at it's low points, I think B:TAS got by on the atmosphere and the elegant distillation of the mythos it was adapting. This seriously didn't do for the Superman mythos what the other cartoon did for Batman's. I think it's very, very good and certainly the best you are going to get for Superman in the DCAU, but the character and his world lend themselves to so much better.

    I think I read an interview where Bruce Timm said Superman is not as intrinsically interesting as Batman, and that about says it all. Also on one of the DVD features, he said they brought in the Fourth World stuff because after a certain point, Superman didn't have many interesting villains or locations to utilize. Which is just straight up bonkers because they only featured the Phantom Zone in like two episodes, and the Legion of Superheroes in one. They should have brought Supergirl in earlier and utilized some of her stuff, or the Legion of Supervillains, the Fatal Five, Mordru, the Time Trapper or a Sun Eater if they wanted to broaden the rogues gallery. The Fourth World stuff was well done, but also feels a bit intrusive. That stuff has a stronger connection to Superman than most other corners of the DCU, but they are not regular features.

    On the plus side, they had the best version of Toyman, Brainiac was better than the post-Crisis version, and their solution to having Supergirl without her being a Kryptonian is so much more elegant than the weird ass stuff the comics writers came up with it's embarrassing.
    In the commentary for New Kids in Town (season three, where Brainiac does a Terminator and the Legion need to intervene) it's noted that this was the first episode since the second (first storyline was over the first three episodes) to feature pre-Superman Clark. That setting could have fleshed out young Clark's life, other characters in that (more Jonathan, Martha and Lana for example), him getting to grips with his powers etc. Peppering the series with flashbacks could have helped to flesh out Clark as a character, and maybe even flashback episodes for other character like Perry and Luthor.

    Another wasted storyline was one introduced in season three. In Brightest Day introduced Kyle Rayner as the first Green Lantern of the DCAU, already working in the Daily Planet art department and a friend of Jimmy Olsen. It opens up the cosmic universe beyond the Fourth World stuff and evil Kryptonians, as well as fleshing out Jimmy's character (he could have had a recurring storyline where Kyle tries and fails to achieve a GL/Daily Planet balance at Jimmy's expense) And yet Kyle not only appears in the one episode of Superman TAS, he only appears in one other DCAU episode (the Justice League episode Legacy iirc).

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I think in one of the bonus features for the first season (I'll have to go back and check for sure) they said they had seriously considered not even giving him flight in terms of powering him down but realized it went too far. So the powering down thing was obviously deliberate from the start. It's odd that they would use Kyle (this seems like another one of those "DC keeping them on short leash" things where they were only allowed to use what was in the books at the time) and then just drop him once the JL cartoon started. The timeline with the DCAU never seemed to make sense to me. How long was John Stewart active before he joined the JL?
    Listen, lady! I am thirteen years old and driving a Bat-hog through the Amazon on a Tuesday morning! I am ALREADY winning!

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  5. #20
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Read along companion series?
    Chris Sims did an episode guide for the entire run of the X-Men animated series, as well as the roughly 70 issues of the entire Electric Superman saga. It's infinitely more fun to follow than going through alone or trying to recall off hand, there's always a detail ne person sees that another doesn't, especially in the context of the entire work

  6. #21
    Mighty Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Liked it, but it had issues.

    Villains: To me this show had the definitive versions of both Lex and Brainiac. Bizzaro was good, Parasite was good and Livewire has proven herself to be a suprisingly enduring addition to Supermanís rogue gallery. My favorite villains in the show were Toyman and of course Darkseid. Toyman was always a cool concept for a character in search of an interesting design to me. And this...

    Was by far his best design.

    Darkseid was great because they did a masterful job building him up. This is something Marvel would do similarly with Thanos in their movies later. And what DC/WB would fail to do in their live action films.
    Last edited by mathew101281; 02-12-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  7. #22
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Turpin, yes - some very good writing in that episode however...

    I'm a bit torn on this series, on one hand it (STAS) had some good writing/story plots, as well as, interesting characters but Superman, although well written in Clark mode, but his power level as Superman just came off far to weak for what I think Superman should be wielding, as far as, his abilities are concerned.

    I know some-here, reference the Fleischer animated versions of the early 40's as representative model for this 90's series version however, I think the (STAS) show more reflected the Superman, of the "1986 reboot post crisis" (John Byrne) era more than anything.

    Superman, not only came off more weaker, but somewhat uneven, in this the "Bruce Timm version" of Superman, than he did in the "Max Fleischer version" which was more consistent, and (not to mention) Fleischer had more of a natural looking "smooth motion" graphic feel - that hold up very nicely, especially for the animation being more than three quarters of century old.
    Last edited by jimmy; 02-12-2018 at 10:59 AM.

  8. #23
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    It's almost apples-oranges in that the oldest versions of Superman didn't have power comparisons within the stories. STAS Superman and post-crisis Superman both battled other powerful beings constantly and pushed their limits, where those things didn't quite happen in the golden age. But meanwhile, the Byrne Superman is significantly stronger than the animated versions (excluding New Adventures, I guess) in basically the same way, so it's not hard to compare the cartoons.

    Toyman also comes up when this show is discussed, and I do think he makes a great posterboy. He has that "B:TAS" feel that the show is known for, although Superman should actually have a stronger claim to the art deco style because of Fleischer, and strips the character down to the core needed to tell a good story with the concept.

    I personally love Jack Nimball, but in the late 90s, things that reeked of the 70s weren't looked upon favorably. So it seemed like a necessary direction in many ways.

  9. #24
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    I own all three volumes and I do like it a lot, but admittedly, I do find it a bit drier than it should be. Like Byrne before them, it seemed like they tried and keep him as 'grounded' as possible, but IDK; grounded it really one of the last things that I look for in a Superman story. It honestly could've used a bit more of a Silver Age sensibility and maybe more of a cosmic feel. Think Mike Allred, perhaps.

    That said, there were obviously a lot of great episodes, like the first three that covered his origin, the Toyman episodes, the Fourth World episodes, the Supergirl episodes, the Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash episodes, Mxyptlk episodes, etc.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Hmmm.... I've heard that Dini statement paraphrased. If he really thinks he brought in Kirby elements, when Kirby himself had them sprout from Jimmy Olsen and they re-emerged in the late 80s, that's kind of odd.



    It was the Fleischer cartoon version in a different setting. But he was the most powerful person in the animated universe until maybe the JLU.



    Nice. I wonder if they ever did a read along companion series to the episodes somewhere.
    From what I remember of the Fleischer shorts, it seemed like that version was more powerful than the STAS version. He didn't have all his modern powers down pat yet and was still alternating between flying and jumping, but he was also able to lift a falling skyscraper.

  11. #26
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    This show was disappointing but it was better than nothing. It did have some great episodes, but it was clear that the writers didn't really appreciate the character. The Ruby Spears series and the Superman and the Legion of Superheroes shows were much better in my opinion. I'm still holding out hope for a Superman series based on the character as he appeared in Batman the Brave and the Bold. THAT would be amazing!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by magha_regulus View Post
    I'm still holding out hope for a Superman series based on the character as he appeared in Batman the Brave and the Bold. THAT would be amazing!
    This would be about the perfect Superman cartoon, imho.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  13. #28
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panthergod View Post
    Its a Byrne/Marvelized Superman adaption
    It was a good show, far better than anything we'd likely get today or in the future, sadly, but yea, the degree of Post-Crisis fidelity hurt it some for me. BTAS was surprisingly Bronze Agey (pre-COIE-ish).
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  14. #29
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    It was a good show, far better than anything we'd likely get today or in the future, sadly, but yea, the degree of Post-Crisis fidelity hurt it some for me. BTAS was surprisingly Bronze Agey (pre-COIE-ish).


    I did like the early BTAS - as it had that "Film Noir" -Midnight Deco- feel, like being back in the 40 - 50's very much the epitome of Raymond Chandler's "Philip Marlowe" and, not to mention, the BATMAN 1940's serials. I wish the Superman Animated Series would have followed suit - but who knows, the next incarnation of an Animated Superman may do so!?
    Last edited by jimmy; 02-13-2018 at 03:27 AM.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Chris Sims did an episode guide for the entire run of the X-Men animated series, as well as the roughly 70 issues of the entire Electric Superman saga. It's infinitely more fun to follow than going through alone or trying to recall off hand, there's always a detail ne person sees that another doesn't, especially in the context of the entire work
    No i don't think they did something like that. Definitely not Chris Sims. I will look it up. Someone somewhere may have done it.

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