Honest thoughts on Superman: The Animated Series?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I would agree that the biggest thing holding the Superman animated series back was the fact that the people in charge of it didn't particularly like Superman, which is a pretty major problem that they never overcame.

[jimmy]

I would agree that the biggest thing holding the Superman animated series back was the fact that the people in charge of it didn't particularly like Superman, which is a pretty major problem that they never overcame.

^That - and trying to make Superman "more relatable to certain fans - aka - more human" by the use of limits. Superman, by very the nature, is supposed to be powerful but yet they penalize him for being who is, naturally. Limits - was one of the driving forces behind the last seven years, because having him leap and 1/8th of a mile is more believable to these people than having him fly faster sound or, god forbid - light.

The funny thing is - that most people who grew up fifty or, more - years ago, wanted to be Superman and there was less limits on their imagination - as opposed to - some people who grew up in the past twenty (give or, take) years ago, whose imagination is somewhat - curbed - and scaled down to fit their own individual lives to what they "physically '&' mentally" can relate to and find to be believable (doable).

The sad thing is - that "imagination" that goes beyond limits, either gave or open the door, to nearly every invention and modern convenience that we enjoy today!

[DieHard200904]

I think the Animated Series was cool. I didn't care that this version wasn't as strong as the comic book version, I just felt it made some cool action/adventure concepts. I would watch an episode of this one day if I had it as an option. It's on Amazon Instant Video, free of you have an Amazon Prime subscription.

[Last Son]

^That - and trying to make Superman "more relatable to certain fans - aka - more human" by the use of limits. Superman, by very the nature, is supposed to be powerful but yet they penalize him for being who is, naturally. Limits - was one of the driving forces behind the last seven years, because having him leap and 1/8th of a mile is more believable to these people than having him fly faster sound or, god forbid - light.

The funny thing is - that most people who grew up fifty or, more - years ago, wanted to be Superman and there was less limits on their imagination - as opposed to - some people who grew up in the past twenty (give or, take) years ago, whose imagination is somewhat - curbed - and scaled down to fit their own individual lives to what they "physically '&' mentally" can relate to and find to be believable (doable).

The sad thing is - that "imagination" that goes beyond limits, either gave or open the door, to nearly every invention and modern convenience that we enjoy today!

I'm kind of sick of WB/DC bending over backwards to please people who hate Superman by changing him to fit their ideal characterizations and power limitations. Hopefully Rebirth and the return of the trunks are the start of them being unapologetic about who and what Superman is as a character.

[Kuwagaton]

Even a bum cartoon about a major property will reach several times more people than the best selling comic, and retain a good number as they're free and air nationally. Unfortunately, it's not backwards compatible. So if one was an adult comic reader watching a cartoon... they weren't really counting on aiming for you or keeping you. I guess that's a failing, but sort of by design.

As a kid in the target demographic, I did prefer Steel and Superboy because they were more contemporary, but this cartoon got me deeper into Superman and I've since branched into plenty of other versions. It didn't seem at all as if they didn't like him.

[Lukmendes]

From DCAU I only really watched Justice League and Static Shock, didn't watch many episodes from STAS, but assuming some of the problems from Justice League are there, then Supes' problems would be his power level being too "grounded" (Though he did get some buffs in Justice League at least), he looks pretty weak in some fights I've seen from STAS, something about his personality from STAS seemed off too, can't put a finger on what though...

[Agent Z]

^That - and trying to make Superman "more relatable to certain fans - aka - more human" by the use of limits. Superman, by very the nature, is supposed to be powerful but yet they penalize him for being who is, naturally. Limits - was one of the driving forces behind the last seven years, because having him leap and 1/8th of a mile is more believable to these people than having him fly faster sound or, god forbid - light.

The funny thing is - that most people who grew up fifty or, more - years ago, wanted to be Superman and there was less limits on their imagination - as opposed to - some people who grew up in the past twenty (give or, take) years ago, whose imagination is somewhat - curbed - and scaled down to fit their own individual lives to what they "physically '&' mentally" can relate to and find to be believable (doable).

The sad thing is - that "imagination" that goes beyond limits, either gave or open the door, to nearly every invention and modern convenience that we enjoy today!

Escalating power levels are not a sign of imagination. They are in fact the opposite. They're the well writers go to when they've run out of ideas.

I also have to question complaints about Superman being slightly weakened given the power level he started out as was not that impressive.

[jimmy]

Escalating power levels are not a sign of imagination. They are in fact the opposite. They're the well writers go to when they've run out of ideas.

I also have to question complaints about Superman being slightly weakened given the power level he started out as was not that impressive.

Opposite?...As in lack thereof "imagination"...

If so, isn't that the very same "writer's well" that use "Magic" as a crutch?

Superman is supposed to be powerful and impressive, above and beyond - however, he has to realize that there are consequences of being a "Bull in a China Shop" especially, when stopping a crime. Therefore, it is good to see him think through the process to find the most efficient and effective solution and then proceed to do what must be done, but in STAS - he was struggling and straining with mundane things!

[Agent Z]

Opposite?...As in lack thereof "imagination"...

If so, isn't that the very same "writer's well" that use "Magic" as a crutch?

Superman is supposed to be powerful and impressive, above and beyond - however, he has to realize that there are consequences of being a "Bull in a China Shop" especially, when stopping a crime. Therefore, it is good to see him think through the process to find the most efficient and effective solution and then proceed to do what must be done, but in STAS - he was struggling and straining with mundane things!

Writers get flack for using magic as a crutch all the time. Not the best counter argument.

What are these mundane things he struggled with?

[DochaDocha]

I've probably written at length about this series about as much as anyone here. Anyway, just to summarize my prior thoughts, it's okay, but this is a really boring take on Superman. It comes from a place where the creators look at Superman and see a problem, specifically that he's too powerful to be interesting (in their opinion), so everything is written backwards (to be fair, IMO). So you take all your Superman staples, and downgrade them. It's pretty palpable, to the point where it's not just lowering the baseline of Superman's powers and going from there. It's essentially a theme of the show that they try to hit over our heads in every episode: everything physical Superman is going to do is going to be difficult. Again, it's based on the idea that he's too powerful to be interesting (in their opinions) so the episode won't be interesting unless they show that he has to struggle each and every time. You may like that, and I get it, but I find it jarring as hell.

Also, I never could get over the fact that Bruce Timm was once quoted saying Superman was inherently a "dull" character, and it ends up showing in certain episodes. Take the otherwise fantastic episode "Knight Time," when Robin meets Superman for the first time. While traditionally Robin is known to be a bit of a Superman fanboy, this Robin couldn't seem to care less he met Superman. Superman's celebrity shouldn't be so understated. I mean, he's not Kim Kardashian, but there should be a, "Look, it's Superman!" element when people see him for the first time.

Elephant in the room: these guys liked Batman more. So, when the characters interacted...

I also thought there was a lot of meddling from WB and DC. For instance, DC Comics had no Kara Zor-El at the time, so the cartoon could only have a remixed version in Kara In-Ze from planet Argon. Also, Superman just had a hyped wedding to Lois in the comics, so Superman's interaction with characters such as Lana and Maxima were about as boring as you could get. To steal a line from a Wonder Woman comic, he might as well have been a gay Vulcan.

But, despite all of my complaints, it's not like it's all bad. The good episodes are really good. It still gave me my favorite Brainiac, as well as my favorite Superman vs. Darkseid rivalry. I will always kind of resent this show, but it's not as though there aren't things from it I enjoyed a lot, too.

[jimmy]

Writers get flack for using magic as a crutch all the time. Not the best counter argument.

What are these mundane things he struggled with?

For it not being the best counter argument, it certainly has been used enough!!

STAS - grunted and groaned a lot when performing feats (i.e. saving an ocean-liner), high-voltage pained him greatly (i.e. Liver-Wire), needed a Space suit etc.... Dini, Burnett and Timm all copped to depowering Superman making it difficult to perform Superhuman feats so the audience could relate and appreciate Superman better, however, they received quite a bit of flak for nerfing Superman....Later....there was bit of a "power-creep" to compensate for this.

[jimmy]

I've probably written at length about this series about as much as anyone here. Anyway, just to summarize my prior thoughts, it's okay, but this is a really boring take on Superman. It comes from a place where the creators look at Superman and see a problem, specifically that he's too powerful to be interesting (in their opinion), so everything is written backwards (to be fair, IMO). So you take all your Superman staples, and downgrade them. It's pretty palpable, to the point where it's not just lowering the baseline of Superman's powers and going from there. It's essentially a theme of the show that they try to hit over our heads in every episode: everything physical Superman is going to do is going to be difficult. Again, it's based on the idea that he's too powerful to be interesting (in their opinions) so the episode won't be interesting unless they show that he has to struggle each and every time. You may like that, and I get it, but I find it jarring as hell.

Also, I never could get over the fact that Bruce Timm was once quoted saying Superman was inherently a "dull" character, and it ends up showing in certain episodes. Take the otherwise fantastic episode "Knight Time," when Robin meets Superman for the first time. While traditionally Robin is known to be a bit of a Superman fanboy, this Robin couldn't seem to care less he met Superman. Superman's celebrity shouldn't be so understated. I mean, he's not Kim Kardashian, but there should be a, "Look, it's Superman!" element when people see him for the first time.

Elephant in the room: these guys liked Batman more. So, when the characters interacted...

I also thought there was a lot of meddling from WB and DC. For instance, DC Comics had no Kara Zor-El at the time, so the cartoon could only have a remixed version in Kara In-Ze from planet Argon. Also, Superman just had a hyped wedding to Lois in the comics, so Superman's interaction with characters such as Lana and Maxima were about as boring as you could get. To steal a line from a Wonder Woman comic, he might as well have been a gay Vulcan.

But, despite all of my complaints, it's not like it's all bad. The good episodes are really good. It still gave me my favorite Brainiac, as well as my favorite Superman vs. Darkseid rivalry. I will always kind of resent this show, but it's not as though there aren't things from it I enjoyed a lot, too.

One of the best was in JLU the very last episode, you know - Destroyer - when Superman gives the "Card-board" speech. Superman was doing great as he levels Darkseid but DS pulls out the "Agony Matrix" and you know who comes in as saves the day.... I wish that scene could be re-done with Superman mopping up Darkseid all by himself.

[Kuwagaton]

Lack of imagination can go either way. In one of the early stories, Superman gets tossed off a boat and has to swim from there. In another, he gets knocked for a loop by a hand grenade. Since they were some of the only superhero comics out, they were far from lacking in imagination.

Take the otherwise fantastic episode "Knight Time," when Robin meets Superman for the first time. While traditionally Robin is known to be a bit of a Superman fanboy, this Robin couldn't seem to care less he met Superman.

Which was totally in line with what a kid his age would think about Superman at the time. Granted I never followed Tim Drake in the comics.

[K. Jones]

I adore Superman: TAS but honest reflection is that a pitch-perfect voice-cast wasn't always saving it from some sub-par Superman stories.

I thought their approach was really good - heavy on the Byrne influence, and the Kirby mostly. And even Byrne was heavy on the Kirby. Their introduction of Steel was quite lovely, the build-up to Darkseid was definitely the best part of the series, and while not every story he was in was a winner, Clancy's Lex Luthor being such a regular fixture was very welcome.

But I think in hindsight it's easy to see the missteps. There were a lot of "Let's just have a DC Guest Star" episodes happening, even as adaptations or TV takes on popular Superman characters were delivered in ways that didn't necessarily live up to expectations. I was never a fan of their Mxyzptlk, even as a kid, even as this was my initiation into Superman. Even I knew that Jax-Ur and Nala weren't Zod and Ursa.

I liked their Metallo take, and their Parasite take, quite a bit. I rather dug that story with the collector guy and Lobo. And World's Finest was the absolute finest story that has ever been delivered where Batman and Superman meet. There's a lot of strong stuff. I don't even like the "Brainiac as the Krypton A.I." story beat but still think it was executed beautifully and their Brainiac was scary A.F.

Mostly my takeaway is always that even if the Supermanning wasn't always up to snuff now that I've gone back and know so much more about Superman history ... the downtime beats - Clark and Lois and actually spending time in the Planet, and Jimmy and Perry, and the little character interactions that framed every adventure, were just exceptionally well done. I'd have to analyze an episodes list and do some rewatches to get majorly into an honest critique, but I think the highs are high enough that it outweighs the lows. And Roxy Rocket and Livewire are icons.

[jimmy]

I adore Superman: TAS but honest reflection is that a pitch-perfect voice-cast wasn't always saving it from some sub-par Superman stories.

I thought their approach was really good - heavy on the Byrne influence, and the Kirby mostly. And even Byrne was heavy on the Kirby. Their introduction of Steel was quite lovely, the build-up to Darkseid was definitely the best part of the series, and while not every story he was in was a winner, Clancy's Lex Luthor being such a regular fixture was very welcome.

But I think in hindsight it's easy to see the missteps. There were a lot of "Let's just have a DC Guest Star" episodes happening, even as adaptations or TV takes on popular Superman characters were delivered in ways that didn't necessarily live up to expectations. I was never a fan of their Mxyzptlk, even as a kid, even as this was my initiation into Superman. Even I knew that Jax-Ur and Nala weren't Zod and Ursa.

I liked their Metallo take, and their Parasite take, quite a bit. I rather dug that story with the collector guy and Lobo. And World's Finest was the absolute finest story that has ever been delivered where Batman and Superman meet. There's a lot of strong stuff. I don't even like the "Brainiac as the Krypton A.I." story beat but still think it was executed beautifully and their Brainiac was scary A.F.

Mostly my takeaway is always that even if the Supermanning wasn't always up to snuff now that I've gone back and know so much more about Superman history ... the downtime beats - Clark and Lois and actually spending time in the Planet, and Jimmy and Perry, and the little character interactions that framed every adventure, were just exceptionally well done. I'd have to analyze an episodes list and do some rewatches to get majorly into an honest critique, but I think the highs are high enough that it outweighs the lows. And Roxy Rocket and Livewire are icons.

The voice-over-acting was indeed top shelf and Brainiac' s vocal had that emotionless and cold "HAL- 9000" from 2001 Space Odyssey sound.